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03-13-2014, 03:02 PM - 1 Like   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
I've deliberately done a similar test, ramping the Iris with the Sun in shot, the K-01 does the same as the K3 does shown here - the Sun remains the Sun, not becoming a Black Hole.....
so pentax basically beat the Bmd! :-)

ok, i'll shut up...

03-13-2014, 07:21 PM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
My reasons for using Edius - it's always stable, it uses standardized plug-ins,
Do you find you have enough plugins?
Seems like a lot are only compatible w/ FCP or Premiere...
03-13-2014, 10:03 PM - 1 Like   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
As Kadjawi stated, i think the flatter the image is, the easier it is for the camera to process it.
Also notice how the shadows and highlights are well preserved.

Now you can pump up contrast, sharpness and the 'overall image' again in post. your pc & software is much more powerful at that than your camera.
But it is the same story here: i learnt by making mistakes that you have to do things the right way...
Yes. Pumped up contrast and especially detail require much more bits than a flat picture, so reducing artificial detail (which can be added later if necessary) makes a lot of sense when the encoder runs out of bits.

@PiDicus Rex: I was merely the one who expressed the hope that there was something like Lightroom in terms of controls for video correction and grading... only to be told that Lightroom can do that. I'll have to try that with some videos that really have the wrong white balance... sometimes I get along with Filmconvert and Colorista, but sometimes I fail utterly.

I haven't even heard of Edius. Will have a look

Yes, Resolve gets lots of mentions, and there is a free version. Haven't installed it yet.

Virtualdub has a great noise reduction plugin called Camcorder Color Denoise Filter, it works like the color denoiser in Lightroom and does a great job at removing that ugly color noise and turning it into beautiful grain (sort of). Use it moderately, cause quickly smooths out the red channel, otherwise though it works well.

If you're fine with scripts you can also use AviSynth... for interlaced material I use QTGMC, does a great job at deinterlacing (and it perfectly doubles the frame rate, so 50i video turns into 50p). I have not seen any deinterlacer that comes close to this, in all situations and is as reliable.

I think when shooting with the K-01, and to a lesser degree with the K-3, framing for the codec/encoder is important. You'll want to avoid detail, especially when in motion. Otherwise the inefficient encoder that doesn't have enough space anyway will have to throw out a lot of data just to make it fit into the confined space it gets. So lots of rippled, moving water is a big no-no.

Btw., I have received more footage from the Panasonic HC-X900 (around $1500?), shot at 50i with a bitrate of 12 Mbps (!). The camera can do much better than that. But after deinterlacing it looks pretty decent, there is plenty of detail and you have to look closely to see it fall apart. You don't see blocking even in detailed scenes. The encoder is pretty good I must say. The rest of the camera except for the great optical stabilizer (though it looks artificial...) pretty much sucks though. Skin tones look awful, you can constantly see the sensor clipping, even if it's only for one color channel, there is plenty of aliasing and moire, ...

Maybe I'll find 2 similar shots, one from my K-5 and one from the Panasonic camcorder, and post screenshots. For those who say "use a camcorder if you want to shoot video! Get rid of video in DSLRs!".

Last edited by kadajawi; 03-13-2014 at 10:19 PM.
03-13-2014, 10:56 PM   #259
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Kenyee: Edius uses VST and AE plugins - there is a massive community for VST stuff, even among the freebies you can find some really powerful tools.
And the After Effect plugins are everywhere, plus there's the paid Boris FX, ProDAD and the like.


Edit:,... Um, Wow....

Played around with the colours, sticking to broadcast safe limits, for files 2169.mov and 2174.mov while sitting here watching the F1GP practice... Just using the basic Colour Wheel filter, and the richness that comes out in the colours is fantastic, really impressed by how much information there is, given the limitations of the data rate.

Kadajawi: ditto, need to try the workaround for Lightroom,.. once I find the page that listed how to do it


Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 03-14-2014 at 12:37 AM.
03-14-2014, 12:50 AM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Played around with the colours, sticking to broadcast safe limits, for files 2169.mov and 2174.mov while sitting here watching the F1GP practice... Just using the basic Colour Wheel filter, and the richness that comes out in the colours is fantastic, really impressed by how much information there is, given the limitations of the data rate.
I'm really glad you bring this up. I am very pleased with the post i can do on the K3 files. But sofar I seemed to be the only one.

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Maybe I'll find 2 similar shots, one from my K-5 and one from the Panasonic camcorder, and post screenshots. For those who say "use a camcorder if you want to shoot video! Get rid of video in DSLRs!".
I think a lot of people just filmed with a dslr without tweaking the profiles and thus called it worthless video vs camcorders. they forget camcorders are already optimised for video when they leave the factory and dslrs are not. But in fact, the sensor is just bigger in a dslr so it is bound to have a better quality embedded. It is just the formfactor that is more difficult to handle.

Take a look at a comparison of the Sony RX10 and some other camcorder on The camera store videos. The videoguy, don't recall his name, plainly says something like the rx10 makes medium quality camcorders redundant.
they also convinced me to buy the K3 through their review (and almost the MX 1 as well!). So be careful when watching them..:-)

and actually, the videos steve posted made with the mx1 don't help either to keep my money in my pocket!
thnks for that!! These days i can get it for 299euros. So tempting..

Last edited by grispie; 03-14-2014 at 01:02 AM. Reason: edit
03-14-2014, 02:24 AM   #261
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Grading example, made from the ship videos - just aimed to match the two so the sky looks similar, so the time of day looks the same between the two shots.
Password is ' Stagnant ' ..... And thanks again for supplying test samples!



---------- Post added 14-03-14 at 08:38 PM ----------

Yep, 'Camcorders' are optimised for moving images, but they are limited in dynamic range compared to APS-c based cameras, even those with small CMOS sensors.

Working with large sensor format cameras requires a different discipline. In most cases, it takes longer to set up and compose a shot properly then it does with a camcorder.

For me, it's all about the right tool for the right job. If I'm shooting sports or news or for TV, I'd grab my HD7. If I'm doing drama or short film or music video, I grab the K-01 for my work, or work out with the client what is the best camera within their budget.

If I want something to impress clients, I hire a mates HPX-500,...

Right now we're in pre-prod for an indie feature film, using the 'found footage' look. We're likely to use the JVC HD7 for the 'look', but record to a HDMI based unit from Atomos. The K-01 has more dynamic range by about 5 stops, but the HD7 has the autofocus and auto iris etc that matches what the Director/Producer wants.
Tool, matched to job.

Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 03-14-2014 at 03:05 AM.
03-14-2014, 02:57 AM   #262
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Thanks for the suggestions regarding software, I guess I will start with something that is fairly simple and cheap.
@PiDicus Rex, that link does not work, for some reason.
03-14-2014, 04:07 AM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Password is ' Stagnant ' ..... And thanks again for supplying test samples!
Love the flare,
this was with a DA21 right?


Last edited by grispie; 03-14-2014 at 04:08 AM. Reason: correct
03-14-2014, 05:21 AM   #264
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@ grispie it indeed is a DA 21 limited.
03-14-2014, 05:46 AM   #265
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Maybe tried it too soon?
03-14-2014, 05:49 AM   #266
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The password or the link do not seem to work, not matter how I try.
03-14-2014, 05:56 AM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stagnant Quote
The password or the link do not seem to work, not matter how I try.
Stagnant with capital S.

worked fine with me.. but I typed stagnant first
03-14-2014, 06:56 AM   #268
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@Stagnant.
Thanks for making your files available.
I have had a bit of a play with them in my video editor of choice - I know your files were mute, so I added some audio to suit
http://goo.gl/Rbmf8p
03-14-2014, 10:20 AM   #269
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You are welcome guys. It is not that hard to post the samples, after all the discussion is pointless if you don't have the data to analyse.

@PiDicus Rex, works fine with the capital "S". The first part of the sample had a toning similar to an aged film. The second part looked slightly greenish.
@Steve.Ledger , it was quite interesting to see the colours back. Surprisingly enough post processing managed to restore, the seemingly lost colours and contrast. In reality these videos were far more quiet
03-14-2014, 11:22 AM   #270
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so, going back to the title of this post... what is the verdict?
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