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01-29-2014, 08:38 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by gbeaton Quote
Thats not the aperture changing. Its noise from the SR. Turn your SR off and the noise goes away.

I don't get that ... you really mean the noise makes the picture brighter or darker while focussing ???

This is something I'm kind of bothered about. I'm not sure if by having SR on that the image is free of fits and jumps. I've tried testing but not sure if the jumps are a playback issue or recording issue.

About that the following comes true: In quite scenes you will see the dark sides of sensor SR
In vivid scenes you will only see it if you know that behaviour - but it gets alsmost invisible
because the brain does not connect those shaky jumps with some tool in the camera producing it.
So you either get very sensitive in quite moments - or you will almost forget about it in "times of war"
Didn't see my SR - Demo yet ?
It will open your eyes ... and I am starting to repeat my moaning journey here ...



01-29-2014, 08:59 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by gbeaton Quote
What gets me is why Pentax would come out with a new camera like the K3 that performs worse than the K5. It boggles the mind... If they're going to put a feature like video in the camera then they should take is seriously.

PS: so glad I have the K5ii and not the K3
no, you're not :-)
Having manual control over your exposure is far more important to video than SR. SR can be easily solved outside the cam and if handheld it is so important for a shooting style, a dslr is not the right formfactor. not a canon, not nikon, not sony, not pana, ok olympus seemingly yes (but I don't see myself holding it for ages on an interview or concert or whatever), and not even a BMCC. It's like audio. You want clean audio, rely on a external device. Want stable shots, rely on tripod, jib, rig, whatever. The market is flooded with very good options ever since dslr filming. It is an issue completely blown out of proportion.

To answer your question on what boggles your mind: my bet is that it is simply heat. Sony had the same problems in their dslrs and changed as well.

To answer you initial question, at least in my opinion. It is no less, no worse than all dslrs out there. It suffers from the same issues as other dslrs simply because they are dslrs (referring to Kenyee's point e.g.)
BUT for someone that has a lot of pentax glass, this is simply a good tool to do video. It has focus peaking, you can zoom in to check focus, it has a great screen, it has zebras, good ergonomics, it has hdmi out for reference on a big screen during recording, it works great with old glass and the IQ is there. For a 1000$. If these things are not far more important than SR, then you're not in need of a dslr at all and certainly not one with a global shutter.

Did I mention i hate these SR discussions by people that simply have never touched a K3? If one wants to make a solid conclusion on the K3 for video, buy one, use it and then make statements about it.

Now, where is my pentax fanboy sticker? -
01-29-2014, 09:21 AM   #33
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The one who is fighting again and again for his problematic K-3 is you, flying dutchman ;-) with the help
of your friend Steve ... It really has become a battle ...
But the SR-quest is concerning all those who want to go for handheld cameras. Those with tripods need
no SR that's true. But all documentary style / people / family / wedding / children whatever moviemakers
will need a reliable SR of course, because all these handheld DSLRs are just shaking like crazy ... But if
you are one of those other guys with big weird rigs and handles and stuff, you can also forget about SR.
So it's a question for what you know you are really going for. And don't forget, even the old SR is not perfect
at all ......I am tired too ...... So this was my very last ....... hahahaha ....... I swear I will never again ....
01-29-2014, 09:26 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
no, you're not :-)
Having manual control over your exposure is far more important to video than SR. SR can be easily solved outside the cam and if handheld it is so important for a shooting style, a dslr is not the right formfactor. not a canon, not nikon, not sony, not pana, ok olympus seemingly yes (but I don't see myself holding it for ages on an interview or concert or whatever), and not even a BMCC. It's like audio. You want clean audio, rely on a external device. Want stable shots, rely on tripod, jib, rig, whatever. The market is flooded with very good options ever since dslr filming. It is an issue completely blown out of proportion.

To answer your question on what boggles your mind: my bet is that it is simply heat. Sony had the same problems in their dslrs and changed as well.

To answer you initial question, at least in my opinion. It is no less, no worse than all dslrs out there. It suffers from the same issues as other dslrs simply because they are dslrs (referring to Kenyee's point e.g.)
BUT for someone that has a lot of pentax glass, this is simply a good tool to do video. It has focus peaking, you can zoom in to check focus, it has a great screen, it has zebras, good ergonomics, it has hdmi out for reference on a big screen during recording, it works great with old glass and the IQ is there. For a 1000$. If these things are not far more important than SR, then you're not in need of a dslr at all and certainly not one with a global shutter.

Did I mention i hate these SR discussions by people that simply have never touched a K3? If one wants to make a solid conclusion on the K3 for video, buy one, use it and then make statements about it.

Now, where is my pentax fanboy sticker? -
You're right. I'm annoyed by the K5ii not having manual exposure control - just a firmware issue presumably. And the SR seems to have issues too - check recent posts. So my mind still boggles.

01-29-2014, 09:40 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by gbeaton Quote
You're right. I'm annoyed by the K5ii not having manual exposure control - just a firmware issue presumably.
And the SR seems to have issues too - check recent posts. So my mind still boggles.
That is the nature of the mind ...

I have come at peace - almost - with the old SR - because it is much better than the new.
I am trying to get at peace with stopping the Auto ISO & Shutter - it can be delt with - but
needs practice ...
Of course headphones output is really a must too ... Im missing it ... and it's great to change
aperture while shooting - choosing ISO and shutter as wanted is needed too of course.
The K-3 has all that is needed but it misses some urgent things - so I just weep and stick
with the old. I don't pay 1.000 € and don't feel well and Hurrah with it ...

I got my K-5 with a SMC-M 50mm 1.4 for 380,- Euros.
Is that an argument too ?

Last edited by TomGarn; 01-30-2014 at 11:10 AM.
01-29-2014, 10:25 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by gbeaton Quote
Thats not the aperture changing. Its noise from the SR. Turn your SR off and the noise goes away.

This is something I'm kind of bothered about. I'm not sure if by having SR on that the image is free of fits and jumps. I've tried testing but not sure if the jumps are a playback issue or recording issue.
It is not. It is clearly the aperture. The recorded video gets darker too. And you can see the aperture stop down a bit. Once I've compressed the video and uploaded it to YouTube I'll post it. But rest assured, it is a bug that the K-5 has with the DA 50 1.8. Tried other lenses, zoom ones as well as primes, nada. Tried a few DA 50 1.8 on the K-3, same issue (though we didn't test it when recording). K-50 no issue due to the weird way the K-50 operates when not recording video. Never tried it while recording.


@grispie: I've touched the K-3. It feels nice. But when I was buying my next camera the choice was between the K-30 and the K-5. I've tried both. I knew after a short while with the K-30 (like, 30 seconds) that I wouldn't be happy with it, and bought the K-5 instead. And one of the reasons was SR. For me additional gear is not feasible, I'm not shooting video to earn money. If I do, yes, that'd be something I'd invest in if necessary. To me, stabilizing gear is something when you get really serious about it, and you do planned shoots. For regular home use for people who want a bit more "artsy videos"/control over the look (compared to a consumer camcorder) that's not so much an option.


Did Sony ever had IBIS? I don't think so. But they are going to get it, and it will be a big deal, and people will buy it for the IBIS.


@gbeaton: That's the thing. Pentax rarely adds capabilities via firmware update, especially not video related ones. It's a shame.


@Tom: 380 Euro! That makes me weep... I've paid 700 or so for mine... Body only.
01-29-2014, 11:32 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
I got my K-5 with a SMC-M 50mm 1,4 for 380,- Euros.
Is that an argument too ?
yes it is.
But for moviemaking the K5 lacks the critical things the K3 has. Not in the least: manual control and hdmi output while recording. So, yep, go for the K5, it is a steal these days. But not for moviemaking. For that you need a K3 or another brand dslr.
And that other brand dslr will have issues as well... Sh*t, what to do now?

For family stuff & children, film at 50/60p and sr is good enough. Just don't expect it to do well with a 200mm lens.
For docu: yes, tripod and rig. Sorry. and it doesn't need to be big & heavy nor pricey.

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Did Sony ever had IBIS? I don't think so. But they are going to get it, and it will be a big deal, and people will buy it for the IBIS.
I read somewhere they did once but left it because of heat issues. But don't ask me more..

The one thing one needs to realize with pentax, is that they will always be behind in the video game. The K3 is similar to other offerings out there now (very late though), with all its pros & cons, but I fear they will quickly be surpassed again. But I hope I am not right..
01-29-2014, 08:20 PM   #38
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why don't you guys do an actual short film w/ the K5 and K3 respectively and we can vote on which one is better? ;-)

Everything has limitations...you just have to work around them, Ok...maybe not the Red Epic....as long as you buy their 10K global shutter adapter gizmo :-)

01-30-2014, 12:28 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
why don't you guys do an actual short film w/ the K5 and K3 respectively and we can vote on which one is better? ;-)
Actually, I saw one movie once made with the K5 that hugely impressed me. Simply because it was a nice movie, but also because of the IQ of the K5. But then the maker said that he wouldn't do it again because it was just not practical. The K5 is missing some needed ergonomics the K3 has for moviemaking. I think the K5 came out at the time when all the hype around filming with dslrs started. If only they had released firmware for at least manual controls..

QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Everything has limitations...you just have to work around them, Ok...maybe not the Red Epic....as long as you buy their 10K global shutter adapter gizmo :-)
+1
01-30-2014, 04:45 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
why don't you guys do an actual short film w/ the K5 and K3 respectively and we can vote on which one is better? ;-)

Everything has limitations...you just have to work around them, Ok...maybe not the Red Epic....as long as you buy their 10K global shutter adapter gizmo :-)
Even epics have limitations. Just not as many.
01-30-2014, 10:58 AM   #41
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Exposure on K-5
It's a terrible fight ... to manage right manual exposure ... at least in complicated and changing light
situations. I tested the K-5 again today under those conditions and almost lost my mind.

I wrote a special new thread about it .... and I am also beginnig to change my mind about the K-3
that of course must be much better in those ordinary true and simple ways ... when you want to find
the right exposure - intuitively, fast and flexible ... and also while shooting of course ...

All this of course only comes to your mind ... if you go for manual exposure always ...
In controled environment with stable lightening this is no big deal to worry about - it's unprofessional
but can be handled ... But in real life it will bring you down ... Or you just give up and let the automatics
decide for you ... while you leave the spot with frustration and get drunken ...

Now my question about the display of the K-3 while manually changing the exposure:
1. Can you see that optimized and always bright image only ?
2. Or can you see the change in brightness that comes true while stepping up and down ?

Last edited by TomGarn; 01-30-2014 at 11:45 AM.
01-30-2014, 11:23 AM   #42
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Tom: D16 - that crank handle on the side is for Focus now.

Formal Petition, I'd sign that - a list with all the firmware changes the users need - that's what I was trying with the K-01 firmware thread - I emailed the link for that to CRKennedy and they passed it on to Pentax.
I'm video focused (sic) so the CoDec and Clean HDMI are my only negatives after reading the K3's manual PDF file.
SR is not an issue for me as I'd either use a Tripod or shoulder mount rig.


Kadajawi: I'm not sure on the description of 'lossy' regarding the compressed version of CinemaDNG. Most of the material I've read describes it as Lossless compresion.

I'd prefer the CineDNG rather then just high-bitrate Mjpeg, simply because the DNG format will be more future-proof with NLE's, and with Resolve.

QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
no, you're not :-) Having manual control over your exposure is far more important to video than SR. SR can be easily solved outside the cam and if handheld it is so important for a shooting style, a dslr is not the right formfactor. not a canon, not nikon, not sony, not pana, ok olympus seemingly yes (but I don't see myself holding it for ages on an interview or concert or whatever), and not even a BMCC. It's like audio. You want clean audio, rely on a external device. Want stable shots, rely on tripod, jib, rig, whatever. The market is flooded with very good options ever since dslr filming. It is an issue completely blown out of proportion.
Preaching to the choir Absolutely spot on for me.


And guys, as for manual control of exposure for video - Pentax quite nicely sorted that out with the K-01's v1.04 firmware, which we K-01 owners were asking for, so I'd suggest you should keep asking for it on the K5 because it is completely do-able.
01-30-2014, 11:29 AM   #43
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I knew the K-5 would be a little better than the K-7 (less noise and more HD)
I knew the K-3 is much better in all professional features of course, but in those
three positions it failed (two of them the K-5 can do better)

1. A must for pros is a monitor that is movable - for tripod - for down under - for held high - etc.
2. SR
3. codec

Exposure is the real problem for the K-5 (and K-7) I thought I could get over it (in theory)
But in real life I can see this will be a very very hard task / mostly impossible to manage.
So this is poison to love.


Got me a K-7 four months ago - just for two video-clips
Got me a K-5 two weeks ago - just for two video-clip now (soon in editing)
Got me a K-3 dream with good firmware for those two missing features ..
Got me a K-1 illusion for the future ...

Last edited by TomGarn; 01-30-2014 at 11:55 AM.
01-30-2014, 11:30 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
why don't you guys do an actual short film w/ the K5 and K3 respectively and we can vote on which one is better? ;-)
Can I bring my K-01 to that party
01-30-2014, 11:50 AM   #45
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Bolex D16 ...
Not that bad ... Crazy modells make us wonder ... Marketing and retro gimmicks
But that handle to hold the camera I was thinking of... it looks just the same as 50 years before:

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2013/12/Digital-Bolex-Finished-Body-8351a.jpg
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