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02-01-2014, 12:39 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by gbeaton Quote
I can tell you as an engineer that often what gets put into a product is based on what technology affords.
I think the long griping session was mostly about why the K-3 took out mechanical SR and put in digital SR instead. I thought it was stupid too...if they were going to do digital SR, they should have done digital overscan so you could do the SR in postprocess via Adobe Warp Stabilizer instead.

The other limitations (max video rate, raw HDMI out, etc.) may be because of the 3rd party chipset they used to do the video encoding.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
a Sony RX-100 and comparing the quality is like comparing a Ferrari to a Volvo 240 and the K-3 is the 240.
From what I've read, the video codec on the RX100 has issues (blocks up sometimes). It looks like a good effort with a good lens though. You can always stick your videos on Dropbox and share out the folder...we can't see the quality via Youtube.

02-01-2014, 05:57 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Are you honestly 100% happy with the K-3 in terms of video? Or is there anything you'd wish for? Anything that might even be done in the firmware.
Haha.. I'm never 100% happy with anything, there's always room for improvement if there wasn't then nothing could evolve and there'd be no need for a new model. The result of which would mean companies would go out of business because no-one would buy a new model because people were 100% happy already...

I am however 100% happy to have made a choice, have a product in my hand and to use it to the best of my ability.

As to firmware. Well sure, bugs can be fixed, stability/speed improved by optimizing routines but added features? Not so much, they are under no obligation to upgrade a model by unlocking possibly unlockable features when that might hurt future model sales. It's a business.
(Though I dare say that if sales were shocking, they might unlock something to boost them. But they aren't so they likely won't)
02-01-2014, 06:47 PM   #78
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@kenyee: It does overscan, but in the camera. I don't think it can be done, what you suggest. The encoding hardware would have to be quite flexible...

@Steve: Then why not suggest to Pentax? Of course they won't do much because of one person suggesting it, but if there are enough... Maybe it will be implemented in the K-3, maybe in the next generation.

Added features... My first Android came with 1.5, in the end it had 2.3. With many, many features added in the mean time (1.5 was really incomplete). My current phone started with 4.0 and is now at 4.4. If I heard correctly one if the OM-Ds did not have video SR when it shipped, they added that feature later. Canon added frame rates to the 5D Mk II. And even Pentax has, once in a while, added features through firmware updates. It is not unheard of.

I don't expect them to ever do anything for the K-5 anymore, but the K-3 will be the flagship for quite a while, keeping it up to date for the time being would not be a bad idea. Once we are closer to the K-1 or whatever it will be that will be a different story. And they could steal the thunder from Panasonic, being the first DSLR with official RAW support. Also, added features via firmware update could drive people to Pentax. I had an iRiver MP3 player. A few years after it went out of production they added Ogg Vorbis support. That was quite good for their reputation, and surely moved a few units.

And even if they don't add the features we suggest to the K-3, they may do so for the next generation. Nothing wrong with that...

Btw., I am pretty much 100% happy with my K-5 in terms of photography. Only the AF could be better, but I knew that before buying it. There is little to improve in the photo part of these cameras. Investing into video could make sense, even for Pentax.
02-01-2014, 08:39 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
@Steve: Then why not suggest to Pentax?
I would not be so presumptuous as to imply that I have superior knowledge and have thought of something which they have not.

02-01-2014, 10:02 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
I would not be so presumptuous as to imply that I have superior knowledge and have thought of something which they have not.
That is not what it is about. We do not know what they have thought about or not. And different people have different needs. The engineers may simply not be videographers. How would they know what a videographer needs, unless one tells them? Also, maybe they have thought about it, but thought there would be little demand?
02-01-2014, 10:21 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
I think that's a rather arrogant position to take, assuming that Pentax/Ricoh have no idea what's happening in the industry or how to conduct market research. I think they've been in business just a little while..
Conversly, it can also be seen as a civic responsibility to provide feedback to the manufacturer for thier core consumers - ie, the guys and gals Most Likely to buy more of their products and tell our mates just how good they can be when used the right way and just how much more potential there is in them.

We all know the IQ of our Pentax kit is beyond question when it comes to stills, and because Pentax has been in the Still Photography market for a long time, that is as it should be and we're all exceptionally grateful for it.
However, Pentax has not been in the video market very long at all, and feedback from their core users, especially those of us who have been working professionally in broadcast, is useful information.
I look at the hardware in the K-01 and the K3, and I see products that only need some well directed firmware developments to turn them in to production tools that will easily blow away the competition from Canon, Nikon, Blackmagic Design, Sony et al for HD production.

I've already seen the reaction from guys who own BMD-CineCameras when I hand them my K-01 with a prime lens attached, and they are stunned at how quickly they can get great video footage out of it.

Perhaps we show our frustration sometimes, but that's simply a reaction to knowing how close to perfect the gear is, and not being able to have it as good as it has the potential to be.

I can't wait for the short films I've shot with my K-01 to finish Post Production, and show just how damn good a film making tool it is.
02-01-2014, 10:54 PM   #82
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Okie, a 'list'... of video specifications/features/changes that would turn K3, K5 and K-01 in to AWESOME Video Production Tools.

01. 'Raw' colour space profile - full sensor data, not limited to REC709.
02. Clean Feed of the raw sensor colour space to the HDMI 4.2.2. output, 4.4.4. if possible, sent to the HDMI port before the downscaling to the LCD is done.
03. Implement optional CoDecs - h.264, high bite rate Mjpeg, and Compressed CinemaDNG Raw - with h.264 and Mjpeg having user selectable bit-rates.
04. User selectable removal of all the post-production applets (to free up system space for the CoDecs)
05. 48kHz sample rate Audio. (with the lowest damn sound floor setting possible!)
06. User selectable ISO levels - enable all the 'hidden' ISO's that the camera can use in Auto so that the User can choose them when needed (ie, 80, 120, 240, 320, 640 etc etc )
07. No Electronic SR. - Mechanical SR on the Sensor or in the Lens.
08. No 'extra' crop between Stills and Video modes when SR is OFF.
09. Full manual control of ISO, F-stop, shutter speed during recording for any camera that doesn't yet have it.
10. USB Streaming - with activation automatically limiting recording to h.264.

On point 04,. I'd be happy to see a 'pro' firmware for those who want the high-end features listed above, and a 'enthusiast' level firmware that includes auto-everything modes and the tool applets.
They could call them "vP1.0x" and "vE1.0x"
02-01-2014, 11:32 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
I can't wait for the short films I've shot with my K-01 to finish Post Production, and show just how damn good a film making tool it is.
Yes, me too

02-02-2014, 12:46 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The engineers may simply not be videographers. How would they know what a videographer needs, unless one tells them?
Do you think they live under a rock? I really don't think they build cameras to please themselves, in fact, there's no evidence that these *engineers* you speak of are even photographers. They are, however in the business of designing and producing compelling and competing digital products..
02-02-2014, 01:18 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Do you think they live under a rock? I really don't think they build cameras to please themselves, in fact, there's no evidence that these *engineers* you speak of are even photographers. They are, however in the business of designing and producing compelling and competing digital products..
Well. Someone who decides on the features, who designs the camera at least is a photographer. I'm quite certain about that. They just know how to make the camera, in terms of ergonomics. The Gimp was developed by programmers, not by visual artists. And it shows. The last time I used it they sorted filters by the programming language they were written in!

Adobe IIRC advertises that the people on their Lightroom team are photographers, and I believe Pentax too made some ads showing that their employees are photographers (they didn't show the engineers IIRC, but that may be due to them being Japanese and the ads being not by Pentax Japan).

Again you misunderstand me (a bit): They don't build the cameras only to please themselves. Of course that's their job, and they are brilliant at it. But I do think someone passionate about photography will do a better job, will be influenced by their being a photographer. A photographer simply tends to know better what a photographer needs in his camera.

@PiDicus Rex: Great list. Nothing much to add there. Perhaps mattes for different aspect ratios, less obnoxious over- and underexposure warning/more broadcast camera like zebras.

Last edited by kadajawi; 02-02-2014 at 01:23 AM.
02-02-2014, 01:21 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Okie, a 'list'... of video specifications/features/changes that would turn K3, K5 and K-01 in to AWESOME Video Production Tools.
I'd subscribe that. The list is good and I like the order in which you have placed things. But we'd need some good credentials to send along. I'm am all amateur with 0.1 experience.

Now I'm off to my set to prepare my first real short movie with the K3 ;-)
02-02-2014, 03:41 AM   #87
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Zebra: http://thedvshow.com/faq-pro/attachments/z2.gif

Available for all broadcast cameras, and some semiprofessionals too ...

You mostly can choose in the menue at what percentage you want it.
Some put it on 70 % (or so) to see which parts are in right exposure.
I only like it at 100 % when you see where it's all white = overexposed

I mostly don't use it because it distracts me from the image (or sharpness)
The good black/white viewfinder in a fresh broadcast-camera is enough to
me, and I can see for myself when to stop down when - for example - the
forehead of the protagonists gets burned by white light completely ...



Last edited by TomGarn; 02-02-2014 at 05:02 AM.
02-02-2014, 04:52 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Perhaps mattes for different aspect ratios, less obnoxious over- and underexposure warning/more broadcast camera like zebras.
Thanks. I skipped the matte's because I'd prefer a proper anamorphic adapter like the new Letus item, for full height, rather then cropped 16:9 to make 2.35:1

Letus Anamorphic Lens Adapters

Proper Zebra's can be No.11
02-02-2014, 05:23 AM   #89
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Pentax is in trouble. They have great potential ... but they can't really make it ... can't manage it ... or whatever ...
So what to feel - to think ... And what to do next ?

I would not write here if I abandonned all my hopes about Pentax - I do like those on "third position" to compete with heroes.
This may be some old testamental hung up: David against Golitath.

I feel it doesn't help to defend a camera with problems - of course we need to say what we dislike - or just stop bying Pentax.
Or we relax and try not to think about those nasty habbits of our Pentax. We still must go on with try and error - like in marriage
... and look for other girls all the time.

(The better is enemy to the good)
02-02-2014, 06:16 AM   #90
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Maybe a separate thread would be more suitable for this? Collect it and then ask Adam if he can hand it over during the CP interview.

While we are at it... Focus peaking during recording. I imagine it is a technical limitation why they don't have it, but if it is possible...

@Tom: Nicht immer so theatralisch
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