[kadajawi]

What a shame they [what amounts to] ruined the video with the K-3, held so much promise for those who are interested in DSLR videography.
The silence from PR is deafening.

Oh well. I still remember your older postings Yes, the K-3 has a ton of promise. I hoped Adam would ask Pentax about video, even to show them that there are actually people who care. During interviews: Nikon: Bombarded with video questions. Olympus: Bombarded with video questions. Pentax: When is full frame coming? When are you expanding to India?

Obviously then Nikon and Olympus realize that video is a big deal, and work on it, while Pentax sits in a bubble, totally oblivious to what is happening in the world. Cause in the Pentax world all anyone ever cares about is going full frame... If only they put some effort in improving their firmware I'm sure they could release something quite competitive.

@PiDicus Rex: I agree. The aliasing is probably more a result of macro blocking. It could be tested by keeping the amount of water to a minimum, lots of sky and then the ship at the bottom of the frame.

Oh that's a relief with the BMPCC Maybe someone develops a plug in to get rid of hot pixels easily I could really use one. If you want to test it, let the camera run in live view for 10, 20 minutes. From the start my K-5 is doing fine, but after a while, especially once the temperature warning is there, it gets bad.

[grispie]

'than'

I recall putting one in on purpose somewhere. you never caught it ! :-)

---------- Post added 03-04-14 at 08:27 AM ----------

The macro-blocking in the wave ripples is typical of every low data-rate camera IMHO, not unexpected at all, and certainly no better or worse then then I've seen with Canon's and Nikons and Sony's shooting the same sort of scene.

Stagnant: Which firmware does your camera have installed? & what was the Sharpness setting?

exactly.
next to sharpness turn contrast all the way down. it will help preserving the blacks...

---------- Post added 03-04-14 at 08:38 AM ----------

What a shame they [what amounts to] ruined the video with the K-3, held so much promise for those who are interested in DSLR videography.

For what I want to do, I'm still happy with my K3. Did some shots myself of rippling water. Seemed fine. But one really need to turn contrast and sharpness all the way down to preserve the detail and shoot in the muted profile. You can get nasty shots from any dslr if you're not carefull.
just a test shot...

[Steve.Ledger]

I recall putting one in on purpose somewhere. you never caught it ! :-)

One occurrence could be a typo, but several times in a single post, not so much

You can get nasty shots from any dslr if you're not carefull.

Oh I agree, you need to work very hard with a K-01 which I kind of accept as it was never touted as a machine for pro video. But for the flagship product where the manufacturer uses phrases such as "enjoy professional H.264 video capture" and bullet points it as • Professional H.264 video on their product page, I'd expect to either not work quite as hard or at least the results of my labour would mean higher quality results.
I'll admit I have no hands on experience with the K-3, but like so many others I have followed discussions very closely and sought out as many samples as possible. Maybe if the price drops below $900 this year I'll grab one.. Who knows

[kadajawi]

For what I want to do, I'm still happy with my K3. Did some shots myself of rippling water. Seemed fine. But one really need to turn contrast and sharpness all the way down to preserve the detail and shoot in the muted profile. You can get nasty shots from any dslr if you're not carefull.
just a test shot...

I believe Pentax (well, rather Fujitsu) has improved their encoder over the one used in the K-01. However the K-5 had a codec that in real life worked quite well. If the K-3 had h264 PLUS MJPEG, it would be a big bonus. Most of the times you shoot h264, but if you really want the best quality, shoot MJPEG at the highest bitrate. And then there is the competition. A consumer level D5300 shoots a maximum of 38 Mbps IIRC. The semi-pro/pro K-3 maxes out at 24. Maybe most of the time they deliver similar bitrates and results (the processor should be quite similar, both being based on the same generation Fujitsu processor), but when needed, in complex scenes, the D5300 can go further. The K-3 can't. Nikon and Canon have picture styles meant to get the most out of the camera for color correction and grading. In the K-3 you'll have to try to create it yourself, and probably you won't get as good.

Also, Pentax advertises the camera as something it clearly is not, but could be, if they had put in additional effort. They still can.

Just watched your video. Looks good. Nice grading, nice shots. But I don't see anything there that you couldn't have done with a K-5, D5300, D90, 5D, 650D, GH3, ... under the same conditions. It works well for these carefully controlled situations and shots. But if you have a more challenging scene, in terms of details (i.e. water scene, a walk through a forest, ...) some of them will perform better. Or if you were to shoot a documentary, handheld, without permissions (so you can't look too professional), or you have to travel light. Or simply just want a more... Michael Bay'ian camera. Then some will again perform better (actually all of them, either through built in stabilizer or the availability of stabilized lenses). The K-3 simply lacks anything that would give it an edge, and it often times is behind competitors or even predecessors. I love the stills part of the K-3, but I just can't get excited over the video part. Sadly for Pentax, I do love the stills part of the K-5 too, and I like the video part.

Ps: Why does Pentax say professional video when they also say we don't care about video?

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Last edited by kadajawi; 03-04-2014 at 04:25 AM.

[grispie]

Maybe most of the time they deliver similar bitrates and results (the processor should be quite similar, both being based on the same generation Fujitsu processor), but when needed, in complex scenes, the D5300 can go further. The K-3 can't.

Agree. And that is something really visible in wide views with a lot of detail. e.g. outside in the woods, landscape,.. It got a lot better than the K01 but I still prefer to rely on my sony a77 for those things.

On picture profiles, the "muted" does work quite fine and can be tweaked a lot as to your preference. It was also mentioned in the Eoshd overview as comparable to cinestyle or whatever the name is. But then again, my sony (3 years old) also does a much better job in dynamic range.

I still hope ricoh will push it further if they want to become a major player.
But i wonder how on earth they can ever compete with all the video background companies like panasonic, canon & sony have...?

[kadajawi]

Ah now that you remind me that you have an A77... one thing I always hated about the A57 is the video look. It's just this oversharpened, high contrast look. Seems to be a common complaint with Sony cameras. Can you fix that on the A77? Never tried to with the A57, since it's not mine. The K-5 can really give you such a completely unsharpened, dare I say cinematic look.

They can compete with the video background companies (if they wanted to) because those have $20000 cameras they want to sell. Pentax doesn't. I do think Ricoh Pentax will have to hire some video guys, maybe rent an Alexa, F55 etc., to get some inspiration, and hire people to implement new stuff in the firmware, but I think if they would put in the effort they could come up with something compelling.

The good thing about the video market right now is that there are big differences between the cameras. You can differentiate, you can excel. The still market? A 7D/70D will perform about as good as a D7100/D300 as a K-3, and they can do about the same stuff.

[grispie]

Ah now that you remind me that you have an A77... one thing I always hated about the A57 is the video look. It's just this oversharpened, high contrast look. Seems to be a common complaint with Sony cameras. Can you fix that on the A77? Never tried to with the A57, since it's not mine. The K-5 can really give you such a completely unsharpened, dare I say cinematic look.

Do you recall that "how green is your garden" site i referred you too. I started playing with the settings & info on that site.
I started to like the A77 more and more. With the portrait setting you can get very flat video out of it. Sharpness, contrast, saturation all the way down. the same for the A57.

On top of that you can use the dynamic range optimizer to avoid blown out highlights and too dark shadows.

And especially for you :-): it has a quite good stabilisation. Not perfect, takes a bit of practice, not what I've seen from the OMD, but definitely usable.

What it lacks:
it is a bit soft also on wide landscapes but at least it can resolve the details.
and you cannot zoom in to check the focus while in video mode. you can quickly switch to photomode, check it and return to video, but that is clumsy. There is focus peaking though.

You can definitely make the video cinematic. there are some good examples on vimeo, but it will require more work than the K5 I guess.
I saw some videos made with the K5 and it indeed comes out quite cinematic to begin with.

You're right, they could compete with sony, canon.., but they will need to bring in some knowledge. It all depends on what direction ricoh wants to with pentax i guess..

[kadajawi]

Do you recall that "how green is your garden" site i referred you too. I started playing with the settings & info on that site.
I started to like the A77 more and more. With the portrait setting you can get very flat video out of it. Sharpness, contrast, saturation all the way down. the same for the A57.

On top of that you can use the dynamic range optimizer to avoid blown out highlights and too dark shadows.

And especially for you :-): it has a quite good stabilisation. Not perfect, takes a bit of practice, not what I've seen from the OMD, but definitely usable.

What it lacks:
it is a bit soft also on wide landscapes but at least it can resolve the details.
and you cannot zoom in to check the focus while in video mode. you can quickly switch to photomode, check it and return to video, but that is clumsy. There is focus peaking though.

You can definitely make the video cinematic. there are some good examples on vimeo, but it will require more work than the K5 I guess.
I saw some videos made with the K5 and it indeed comes out quite cinematic to begin with.

You're right, they could compete with sony, canon.., but they will need to bring in some knowledge. It all depends on what direction ricoh wants to with pentax i guess..

Ah ok, that's good. Though the stabilization... AFAIK it is electronic, isn't it? It is in the A57. It can't beat physics. Just not possible.

Focus peaking is a god sent.

I don't think Ricoh has much choice, unless they want to target at consumers only. And even consumers tend to buy the brands that they see pros use. Besides, consumers also may want video. Basically, if they want to remain competitive they need to do their homework. Everyone but Pentax, Fuji and Leica seem to be putting some effort into video. Leica can afford not too, because, well, they are Leica. Fuji can, because they are Leica at 1/5th the price tag. But Pentax...

[grispie]

Though the stabilization... AFAIK it is electronic, isn't it? It is in the A57. It can't beat physics. Just not possible.

Yep, electronic. I never held another camera with stabilization (well, except for K01 and K3 ;-)). So i can't say how good it is, except that i like it.
I recall the review on blunty's channel has a lot of handheld shots with the A77. Maybe check that one out.

Just watched your video. Looks good. Nice grading, nice shots. But I don't see anything there that you couldn't have done with a K-5, D5300, D90, 5D, 650D, GH3, ... under the same conditions. It works well for these carefully controlled situations and shots. But if you have a more challenging scene, in terms of details (i.e. water scene, a walk through a forest, ...) some of them will perform better. Or if you were to shoot a documentary, handheld,

I agree, that is why i like to have the sony next to the pentax. Outdoor work, nature, travel,.. The K3 is actually more pleasant to use in studio, outdoors it is the sony. It even has smooth AF in video. I am very curieus for the sony successor which is about to come this year.

[Stagnant]

K-3, DA 21 mm Lim, 30 FPS, F8, stabilization off; another sample with the same settings.
K-01, DA 21 mm Lim, 30 FPS, F8, stabilization off ; another sample with the same settings.
Same ship as before. Short clips. Shot on different days. Video from K-3 seems to display less aliasing and looks smoother. K-01 output looks oversharpened and shows more aliasing.

[grispie]

K-3, DA 21 mm Lim, 30 FPS, F8, stabilization off; another sample with the same settings.
K-01, DA 21 mm Lim, 30 FPS, F8, stabilization off ; another sample with the same settings.
Same ship as before. Short clips. Shot on different days. Video from K-3 seems to display less aliasing and looks smoother. K-01 output looks oversharpened and shows more aliasing.

thnks for posting,
especially on the K01 shot, did you dial down sharpness and contrast in-camera?

[Stagnant]

I was using Natural profile on both cameras. Both have fine sharpness +1

[grispie]

ok, I started always using the muted profile, saturation +2 (otherwise a bit too colorless..), contrast -2, sharpness -2 (and adding back in post as per my liking).
Choosing muted will prevent the blown out sky and especially lowering sharpness will make it look less digital.
My 2 cents..

In the end, comparing both, there is a clear difference i think, at least, to my eyes...

[Stagnant]

I need to try the muted profile for video shooting. These clips do show clear difference between the two cameras. They both perform so-so, but K-3 is slightly better.

[grispie]

well, the profiles are rather personal. it's just that the muted profile has lower contrast to begin with than the other profiles and it allows you to underexpose a bit without losing the blacks & preventing blown out highlights.

But these two shots are with the same profile, so they are definitely comparable.

Actually, it would be interesting to see what the ship looks like with the muted profile at different exposures & settings
It is quite a difficult scene for a dslr, so it is a good test..
(only K3, my k01 is for sale. if anyone interested, professional H264 video with stabilisation! :-).