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02-10-2014, 02:27 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Indeed, there isn't. It's definitely a nice feature, but it will eat through your SD card in no time if you shoot too many.
Isn't the size of the HDR image the same as three normal images? I shoot a lot HDR (on K10D) and I believe if I shoot three single RAW files for combining them in post will take up the same space on my SD card as if I shoot one combined HDR file in cam. This saves me a lot of time in post since the files are already combined - and no drawbacks since the space on card is the same - or am I mistaken?

02-10-2014, 02:30 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ArneTorp Quote
Isn't the size of the HDR image the same as three normal images? I shoot a lot HDR (on K10D) and I believe if I shoot three single RAW files for combining them in post will take up the same space on my SD card as if I shoot one combined HDR file in cam. This saves me a lot of time in post since the files are already combined - and no drawbacks since the space on card is the same - or am I mistaken?
Yes that's correct. 1 k-3 HDR raw file is about 3x larger than a non-HDR file.

But you still save a lot of space if you just shoot jpeg w/ bracketing.

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02-10-2014, 02:54 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
But you still save a lot of space if you just shoot jpeg w/ bracketing.
Yes, of course, but I shoot everything in RAW and have full control of the final output of the dynamics in the picture when editing. SD cards are cheap
02-10-2014, 09:30 PM   #34
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When you shoot 3 raws to make an HDR you then have to open them in Photoshop and that's it - you're making 2 actions (shooting > Photoshop).
When you shoot one HDR RAW then afterwards you have to uncombine it in PDCU then open 3 files in Photoshop - you're making 3 actions (shooting > PDCU > Photoshop).
To me, it doesn't seem as convenient.

02-10-2014, 11:27 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by skyer Quote
When you shoot 3 raws to make an HDR you then have to open them in Photoshop and that's it - you're making 2 actions (shooting > Photoshop).
When you shoot one HDR RAW then afterwards you have to uncombine it in PDCU then open 3 files in Photoshop - you're making 3 actions (shooting > PDCU > Photoshop).
To me, it doesn't seem as convenient.
I use Lightroom, so here's the workflow:

When I shoot three raw: Import to lightroom -> Select the HDR images -> Merge to HDR using HDR Soft -> Make adjustments in Develop.
When I shoot one HDR RAW file: Open in Lightroom, Adjust in Develop.

I don't have to uncombine them at all. I don't believe you have to do that to edit in Photoshop either as you can make the same adjustments in Camera Raw while opening it in PS.
02-11-2014, 12:12 AM   #36
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ArneTorp, it seems that when you're editing an HDR RAW in Lightroom, all edits apply only to one raw file of the three.
Make a quick test. Make a single photo and and an HDR one (all in raw) of the same scene and apply the same edits in Lightroom to both files. Then look for the differences between the single raw and the HDR RAW. I suppose there won't be any.
On the other hand, if you uncombine the HDR RAW in PDCU then import these three files in Lightroom, then select all and them and apply Mercge to HDR, then you'll find a real difference between a single raw and 3 raws in an HDR software.
02-11-2014, 08:36 AM   #37
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The K-3 HDR RAW contains the three shots and can i the Pentax program be extracted to three raw files for use in photoshop etc. If opened directly in Photoshop, Pentax program or Lightroom it will display only one of them i.e not HDR. It's a nice way to zip the bracketed files into one file. Personally I find the old way of bracketing three to five shots equally easy and faster in post. Also more configurable but if shooting JPG it is really good in some lightning situations.
02-11-2014, 11:38 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by skyer Quote
ArneTorp, it seems that when you're editing an HDR RAW in Lightroom, all edits apply only to one raw file of the three.
Make a quick test. Make a single photo and and an HDR one (all in raw) of the same scene and apply the same edits in Lightroom to both files. Then look for the differences between the single raw and the HDR RAW. I suppose there won't be any.
On the other hand, if you uncombine the HDR RAW in PDCU then import these three files in Lightroom, then select all and them and apply Mercge to HDR, then you'll find a real difference between a single raw and 3 raws in an HDR software.
I don't have the K3 and I don't have PDCU, but from what I have tested of the different HDR raw files I have found on this forum, there is a lot more dynamics in the HDR RAW file than in a single RAW file. From what I see I get out of these files I see a big difference than editing a single file - the responce in dynamics is very similar to what I now find when shooting three files and combining into HDR with my K10D.

If the dynamic range in the K3 is this large, then it is really a great camera.

I downloaded the HDR file from STAGNANT
QuoteOriginally posted by Stagnant Quote
OOC JPG


SilkyPix



DxO

Here is the RAW file
and got this out of it in Lightroom. Could you try to show me how this is done better with uncombined files? I would really like to know if this is the truth, that the HDR file isn't the same as three different shots combined.

Attached Images
 

Last edited by ArneTorp; 02-11-2014 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Added linkt to Stagnants post
02-11-2014, 11:43 AM   #39
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Here is a 100% crop showing a bit of noise - will this noise be any different with the same raw file uncombined and then merged into HDR?
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02-11-2014, 02:12 PM   #40
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There is no difference. When processing the HDR RAW it only looks at one of the RAW files inside. You will need to extract and run in HDR program.
02-11-2014, 03:49 PM   #41
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How do you uncombine the HDR in PDCU ?

I tried processing the file in Lightroom, and with some tweaking I can get result similar to ArneTorp's.
02-11-2014, 03:56 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
There is no difference. When processing the HDR RAW it only looks at one of the RAW files inside. You will need to extract and run in HDR program.
Lightroom sees the one exposure for previewing but will contain all of the three combined for dynamic range - as I see it.

I would really like to confirm this - Anyone with K3 that can upload RAW files of the same high contrast scene using

1. Bracketing 3 single RAW files using +/- 2 EV steps
2. Single HDR RAW using +/- 2 EV steps

I would really like to test this in Lightroom to see if there's a difference or not.
02-11-2014, 05:13 PM   #43
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I took the HDR RAW, extracted the three RAWs inside. Opened all of them in Adobe Camera RAW, picked the HDR RAW and the one looking exactly like HDR RAW. Processed the two exactly the same and got exactly the same result. So the result is that the only way to get the HDR is to extract the three files inside the HDR RAW file and put them into a HDR processor. As it is now it is like shooting one exposure and tweak it.
02-11-2014, 05:23 PM   #44
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Here Is the same scene uncombined / demultiplexed in PDCU. 3 separate files from that very HDR RAW packed into archive. I tried merging them in Photoshop CS6 with Photorealistic preset (click for full size image) :


One more version of the exactly same scene shot from exactly the same spot. 3 separate RAW files in the archive. Here is the resulting image as rendered by Photoshop using Photorealistic preset :


And for the fun of it, I offered Photoshop to merge the separated files of these two scenes, using the same preset :

Last edited by Stagnant; 02-11-2014 at 05:52 PM. Reason: Expanding the post
02-11-2014, 05:40 PM   #45
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K 3 hdr

That's a great thread and thanks for the info that PEF can now be a HDR raw file containing 3 ordinary raws.

However, Pentax' approach is a bit dumb though. There is little benefit over storing just 3 raw files and it may actually require extra work to extract the ordinary raws to trigger a true hdr workflow. At least until Adobe recognizes this new PEF feature.

There would have been an alternative: Combine the 3 raws into 1 linear 16 or 32 bit DNG raw file which would have been about the same size. The combining algorithm would need to demosaice and align but the K-3 is known to be able to do this. No tone mapping though. Otherwise, a linear DNG file maintains all advantages if the raw format.

Moreover, if Lightroom recognizes a deep format like 32 bit Tiff (or a linear DNG with high bit depth I guess), then it activates additional fearures meant to tone map hdrs. Like the EV slider ranging from -10 to 10 rather than -5 to 5.
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