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02-11-2014, 12:02 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
It may not help you much, but I've done time lapses via the K3's intervalometer, and had zero problems… (clip)
I'd say if you are doing professional timelapses, to go and get yourself a cheap intervalometer or the Kessler solution so that you don't come up empty handed on a shoot.
Yes, this should NOT be happening, but your client doesn't care about you NOT getting the shot.
It's better to cover your bases.
Glad you have had zero problems. The extent I'm shooting time-lapse (for 6-8 hours at a time), I can produce the problem nearly every day. However, it does NOT occur with the K5-II, which I shoot simultaneously. My bases are covered, an an external intervalometer wouldn't protect me in any way. The camera is locking up, and I would suggest it will happen whether using an internal or external one… reason I say this? Because others have had the problem just shooting one-off shots; it just doesn't happen as often, nor with the same repercussions as when shooting time-lapse. I'm shooting more in a day that a wedding photographer shoots in a month. Hell, I'm shooting more in a week than most people will shoot in a year. So the problem is clearly magnified in my situation.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
May I ask how you set up the camera for the shoot. I guess you use the intervallometer or do you use the timelaps function in the movie mode? JPEG, LArge Small, RAW, time between shots, amount of shots, starting time, etc. How many shots/ time before hang up? What brand/size of memory card? I would like to try to mimic the conditions to see if there is a repetable bug.
I don't use the movie-mode time-lapse function. I've tried it personally, for the heck of it, but it doesn't give the same amount of flexibility.

Every 3 seconds, 500 shots at a time (about 25 minutes). I've shot with all JPG size and had the problem happen, but I'm typically set to JPG Small. I've also had it happen right at the beginning of the day when I've barely gotten 1000 shots off, or in the middle of the day after 3000-4000 shots. No rhyme or reason. Cold weather and warm. Inside and out. Though it has happened with half-spent batteries also, the most common scenario it happens is after I've popped in a new, fully charged battery (within 5-20 minutes). If you want to replicate, I'd suggest planning on running the camera for 5-8 hours. You are going to rack up about 8000 shots.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
With regard to batteries, are you only using the battery that came with the K3, or other batteries as well? I have had some trouble with ones that I have used with m y K5/K01, but none with the one that came with the K3.
Mixture, but all are genuine Pentax batteries (from K5, K5-II, K-01 and K3). However, Pentax also sent me a brand new battery to test as well, and the problem reoccurred with their spanking new K3 battery.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
I bought a "Pirate battery" but have never had any problems with that one and not with my Pentax batteries either. K-5 to K-3. Strange phenomenon indeed.
I've used third-party batteries with other cameras with mixed results. Ones I got for my Olympus worked excellent. One I got for my Leica were terrible and never held a charge well. With my Pentax cameras, I've stuck with the genuine ones only.

02-11-2014, 12:26 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Glad you have had zero problems. The extent I'm shooting time-lapse (for 6-8 hours at a time), I can produce the problem nearly every day. However, it does NOT occur with the K5-II, which I shoot simultaneously. My bases are covered, an an external intervalometer wouldn't protect me in any way. The camera is locking up, and I would suggest it will happen whether using an internal or external one… reason I say this? Because others have had the problem just shooting one-off shots; it just doesn't happen as often, nor with the same repercussions as when shooting time-lapse. I'm shooting more in a day that a wedding photographer shoots in a month. Hell, I'm shooting more in a week than most people will shoot in a year. So the problem is clearly magnified in my situation.
My time-lapses only go about an hour or so.

Your variables are probably tied to camera power in the cold, length of time of your time-lapses, number of images (large) and possibly power fluctuations/standby/wake up.

I have noticed the K3 when in time-lapse mode, creates new folders for each time you start a time-lapse. The number of files/images, coupled with the length of time you are doing the time-lapse could have something to do with it. The fact that the files/folders have problems might be a clue here.

If you used an external intervalometer, the K3 would not think or create a separate folder, and just put the images in the same folder, depending on the limit per folder and SD card.

I'd love to know what is the solution when you find it.
02-11-2014, 01:29 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
My time-lapses only go about an hour or so.

Your variables are probably tied to camera power in the cold, length of time of your time-lapses, number of images (large) and possibly power fluctuations/standby/wake up.

I have noticed the K3 when in time-lapse mode, creates new folders for each time you start a time-lapse. The number of files/images, coupled with the length of time you are doing the time-lapse could have something to do with it. The fact that the files/folders have problems might be a clue here.

If you used an external intervalometer, the K3 would not think or create a separate folder, and just put the images in the same folder, depending on the limit per folder and SD card.

I'd love to know what is the solution when you find it.
Can't have anything to do with time, or number of images, because I actually had a day when the problem started very early on, like in the first hour.
Has nothing to do with cold. It's happened to me indoors.
The camera should easily be able to handle whatever number of images the SD card can hold.

Power fluctuations are a possibility, but I have no control over that. Seems to happen with all kinds of batteries; what I mean by that is all levels of power drainage (I use only genuine Pentax batteries)… but most commonly, it's with a newly charged one (in the first 20 minutes).

The new folder thing is annoying. LOL
I haven't had a problem with the files/folders. It was only the very first shoot after upgrading the firmware that the whole SD card became corrupted, at the very end of the shoot. It only happened the one time. The mirror-flap-lockup has been a recurring thing, like I said, almost every day I'm out on one of these shoots, but the SD card problem happened just one time.

I wish I could find rhyme or reason to it… but that just hasn't been the case… and like I said, in the K5-II I have had zero problems.
02-11-2014, 09:29 PM   #19
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I wish I could help

I did a 5 hour and 4 hour interval movie yesterday with firmware 1.02 and had no issues other than the need to swap batteries after the first 5 hours. I wonder if there is some way we can recreate your issue. What lens are you using?

02-11-2014, 09:42 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Painter Quote
I did a 5 hour and 4 hour interval movie yesterday with firmware 1.02 and had no issues other than the need to swap batteries after the first 5 hours. I wonder if there is some way we can recreate your issue. What lens are you using?
A few. It's happened with more than one lens.
DA 35mm Macro, DA 70mm, DA 21mm and 40mm Ultra Pancake.

I wish I could recreate the fact that you didn't run into the issue! I really hate to have to give up the K3
02-11-2014, 10:36 PM   #21
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1) If you are looking for independent confirmation of the problem, as requested before in this thread, we will need to know the exact settings of the failing camera in order to test ours. Since there are a lot of settings in the K-3, I can see why you may be reluctant to do this.

2) Have you thought of taking the batteries out of the equation entirely? There is an AC->DC adapter available.

Jack
02-11-2014, 11:49 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
1) If you are looking for independent confirmation of the problem, as requested before in this thread, we will need to know the exact settings of the failing camera in order to test ours. Since there are a lot of settings in the K-3, I can see why you may be reluctant to do this.
Many of the camera's settings are still the default, the way it came out of the box.
the stuff I set/changed...

JPG: Small
Drive: Timelapse (every 3 seconds, for 500 shots, "start now")
Metering: Center-weighted
Use AF.S to get focus, then switch to manual so it doesn't try to auto-focus during the time-lapse shots.
M (Manual) mode for setting exposure.
White balance: usually the daylight setting, since most of the time I'm outside.
Auto Focus method: Select
Shutter speed obviously varies, but I tried to shoot wide open when possible (to reduce flicker). ISO varies, but typically I go as low as I can. Rarely over 400 or 800.

If there's something you want specifically that I forgot or didn't mention, let me know.

Most important is that I'm shooting for long periods of time, typically running the camera in 25 minutes "sessions" for 5-8 hours straight.

QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
2) Have you thought of taking the batteries out of the equation entirely? There is an AC->DC adapter available.
Jack
Not really a practical option. I mean it would be for testing, but not for my shoots themselves, so even if the batteries are causing it, it doesn't really give me a solution to the problem. If Pentax were willing to let me keep the K3 for testing while giving me a K5-II to keep doing my shoots with, I'd be happy to

ps. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the batteries. I seem to remember reading something about voltage and that being a cause to the same problem with the original K5. However, I wonder why it doesn't seem to effect the K5-II?

Last edited by DRabbit; 02-11-2014 at 11:54 PM.
02-12-2014, 01:35 AM   #23
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I don't think you can compare the K-5 models with the K-3 regarding the mirror, shutter and diaphragm. Ricoh gave those assemblies separate motors in the K-3 so the code needed to control them would have had to have been totally rewritten. You may have hit a corner case that was not adequately tested before release. Only more widespread testing with your same setup will reveal any shortcomings. I'll try to replicate it tomorrow.

Jack

02-12-2014, 01:21 PM   #24
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OK, Amy. Had to snowblow the driveway today so it was a golden opportunity to replicate your problem. I did three sets of 500 shots at 3 second intervals with my K-3 on a tripod using your settings. Ambient temperature at the start -4C and at the end -1C. Grip attached with both batteries topped up not too long ago. First two sets completed without a hitch. Third set ran into the runaway mirror condition at shot 219. So you now have independent confirmation that there is a problem. BTW, I just turned off the camera to stop the runaway mirror. The fact that it took a few seconds for the mirror to stop suggests that there may have been a capacitor that needed to discharge before it stopped.

My K-3 info: manufacture date - 20131012
firmware version - 1.02
serial number - 4830407

Jack
02-12-2014, 03:08 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
The fact that it took a few seconds for the mirror to stop suggests that there may have been a capacitor that needed to discharge before it stopped.
I don't think the "power switch" actually functions as such. It's really more of an interrupt to the processor, telling it, "the user wants to turn off the camera now." The firmware is programmed to cause the processor to execute an orderly shutdown when conditions allow.

You can see this when you have taken a bunch of shots in sequence that are in the process of being written to the card -- the camera finishes performing the processing and writing before turning off.

Irrespective of the cause, I sure would like to see Pentax (i.e. Ricoh) get out ahead of this one, unlike Hoya's utter failure to do so with various problems in the K-5 and other models (focus inconsistency, bounce flash overexposure).

I don't own a K-3 yet. I was planning to get one, but as a veteran K-5 owner, I'm pretty sick and tired of this "problem? what problem?" attitude from the home office.
02-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
QuoteQuote:
2) Have you thought of taking the batteries out of the equation entirely? There is an AC->DC adapter available.
Not really a practical option. I mean it would be for testing, but not for my shoots themselves, so even if the batteries are causing it, it doesn't really give me a solution to the problem.[...]
It's not a solution for you, but given that it's very likely there's a bug in the firmware somewhere, doing this might help the engineers at Pentax narrow down what is causing it. Maybe you should request that Pentax send you an AC->DC adapter? Just a thought...

Last edited by Doundounba; 02-13-2014 at 06:08 AM. Reason: might help, not would help
02-12-2014, 08:25 PM   #27
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Try using a portable battery pack to power it w/o the batteries?

That's the only thing I can think of as well.
02-12-2014, 09:28 PM - 1 Like   #28
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I have both the stock AC adapter and a homemade DC adapter that runs off a jumpstart battery. I will give both a go and report back. I will gladly sacrifice a few thousand shutter actuations if we can figure this problem out.

Jack
02-12-2014, 11:45 PM   #29
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Three more trials to add to the first three earlier today. To make testing easier, I saved a Timelapse User Mode. Here are the results:

Trial 4 - Attached stock AC adapter. Removed SD1 leaving SD2 in body. Removed both body battery and grip but to my chagrin I found that interval drive settings will only be saved if a body battery is present (Is there power being used from the body battery for the drive settings at all times? Or does the body battery need to be there for interlock reasons even if it is not supplying power? Will need to put in a dead battery to test this). So I had to replace the body battery. The DC In indicator still present on the status screen. 500 shots every 3 seconds. Even with all in-camera lens corrections enabled and a 1 second image display, there was still about a 0.5 second wait for the next photo. Got to 256 good frames and then the runaway mirror kicked in. Bummer.

Trial 5 - As in Trial 4 but moved card to SD1 position. 500 perfect frames.

Trial 6 - As in Trial 5 but replaced SD2 so now two cards in camera. 500 perfect frames.

Summary to date - Trials 1) and 2) with two SD cards + body battery and grip: two perfect trials.

- Trial 3) - As first two trials but failed with runaway mirror.

- Trial 4): AC adapter with one card in SD2. Body battery but no grip. Runaway mirror.

- Trial 5): AC adapter with one card in SD1. Body battery but no grip. 500 perfect frames.

- Trial 6: AC adapter with two SD cards. Body battery but no grip. 500 perfect frames.

So, what to make of all this? Trials suggest that you have the best chance of no runaway mirror if you leave the grip off and have a card in SD1 or two cards in both SD slots. However, I think Amy has had runaway mirror with this setup as well. I think it is probably safer to say that although some setups are less prone, runaway mirror can happen at any time. I hope it is fixable in firmware.

Jack
02-13-2014, 12:43 AM   #30
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I'm trying to think of a polite way to ask if you could sacrifice a few thousand more actuations on your K3 by repeating the exact same trials to see if you get the same results. And that was my best attempt Unfortunately I can just feel the 150k actuations closing in like a freight train when I see how many photos you guys are taking.
However as a K3 owner myself I'm willing to help out with a 1000 actuations or so if you have a specific trial for me to do, I too want to figure this out since I plan to do some time lapse photography as well.
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