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03-05-2014, 09:25 PM   #61
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Thanks for sticking with this issue, Amy. It now does sound like a firmware issue could fix things if it has something to do with the 2nd SD slot. But it must be some kind of logic error if an empty SD card stops the mirror flop!!

Jack

03-05-2014, 11:25 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Only one SD card inserted in the camera the rest of the day... which was at least 6-7 more hours of shooting.
For the rest of the day I had no problems. No run-away mirror lockup or any other kinds of lockups.

I will be shooting time-lapse again all day tomorrow, so will see if the camera runs all day without any problems.

Keep in mind, I've yet to have one complete day out shooting time-lapse where this problem didn't occur, so if it runs all day with just one SD card in and it doesn't have crazy-mirror lockup, this will at least be a step in the right direction.

Will keep you posted.
------------------------------------

Please keep us posted, DRabbit.

Did it make any difference which slot the (single) SD card was in?

I really hate to send back a brand new K-3 with the expectations that another OOB unit will still have the same anomalies. Time lapse was certainly a factor in purchasing it, but not the main one. I can still do it on the
. Just hate to have to carry two frames on extended trips.

Rite ..
03-06-2014, 12:30 PM - 1 Like   #63
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Interesting Update?

So I was out shooting time-lapse for a client for about 6 hours. This is the first day that I did not have the crazy mirror-flap issue. The camera performed well. What was different you ask?

Two things. First, I only had one SD card in the camera. I had the second in my pocket instead of in the camera's SD#2 slot.

Second, I avoided using live view. I think I only used it once all day, and I was SURE to turn live view off before starting the time-lapse.

I have another shoot on Monday. I am going to try to replicate this scenario again and see if I have a problem. This is the most optimistic I've felt since this whole thing started. While I was only out for about 5-6 hours today, I'm feeling a little more confident that the issue really may be either live-view or the 2nd SD card (though I'm leaning more towards live-view, because that makes more sense to me).

Let's see what happens Monday…



QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Update:

So, I haven't yet returned my second K3, but have still been testing and observing. The crazy-mirror issue still rears its ugly head quite often, and I've noted a few things now. I'm also going to include earlier observations in this list.

- Temperature doesn't matter. Happens in 10º to 55º (F) with varying humidity (very dry and super foggy/moist day).
- It happens whether the camera is inside or outside (completely eliminating temperature problem).
- It happens with various SD cards.
- It happens with various batteries, new and old (all genuine Pentax though). It happens fully charged or partially depleted.
- It happens with battery grip (as confirmed by someone else) and with no grip, just a battery inserted.
- It happens in M (manual) mode and A (aperture priority) mode.
- It happens with image stabilization on or off. Doesn't matter.
- Pressing the SD card button when it happens appears to have no effect in stopping the crazy mirror (as suggested by someone). I've tried this twice, and it did nothing to stop it.
- Popping battery stops it. Turning the camera on and off multiple times (5 or more) sometimes stops it.
- This is a K3 issue. I've shot the K5-II side-by-side with the K3 nearly every day I've done time-lapse and have had zero problems with the K5-II.

What has yet to be fully tested by me is shooting with just one SD card.

I had an all day shoot today. I started with a very slightly depleted battery (not fresh off charger, had been used a tiny bit the day before).
I had both SD cards inserted.
30 minutes or so into starting my time-lapse, the crazy-mirror lockup started. Popped battery. Resumed.
15-20 minutes later (or so) it happened again. Popped battery... And this time I also popped the second SD card out.
Only one SD card inserted in the camera the rest of the day... which was at least 6-7 more hours of shooting.
For the rest of the day I had no problems. No run-away mirror lockup or any other kinds of lockups. This doesn't yet prove to me the 2nd SD card being inserted is causing the problem, but it's at least a little promising.
I will be shooting time-lapse again all day tomorrow, so will see if the camera runs all day without any problems.
Keep in mind, I've yet to have one complete day out shooting time-lapse where this problem didn't occur, so if it runs all day with just one SD card in and it doesn't have crazy-mirror lockup, this will at least be a step in the right direction.

Will keep you posted.
03-06-2014, 12:50 PM   #64
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Interesting. LV has been doing some weird things in the past... Please stay in firmware 1.02.

03-06-2014, 01:56 PM   #65
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For me, both mirror flop problem happened when I was playing with Live View, with the grip attached (but not turned on). And I have 2 cards inserted when it happened. But the only lock up happened when I was reviewing the photos if I remember correctly.
03-06-2014, 02:22 PM   #66
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The only way to see if v1.03 fixes things is to upgrade. Perhaps PRI have figured out the problem.

Jack
03-06-2014, 10:12 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
Interesting. LV has been doing some weird things in the past... Please stay in firmware 1.02.
I suspect it is more related to when LV is active or becoming active (including Video mode in my experience) but we will see.
Yes, please DRabbit, try to reproduce with 1.02 first, if you can spare the time. You probably would rather not be the goto person for this fault, but unfortunately you are. I could well understand if you’ve had enough of this and just want to identify some conditions where the fault does not happen and still allows you to do your work.

Best of luck.
03-06-2014, 10:18 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by jhmos Quote
I suspect it is more related to when LV is active or becoming active (including Video mode in my experience) but we will see.
Live View was not a factor when the runaway mirror happened to me. I was shooting in User Mode, with controls set for action shooting.

03-06-2014, 10:19 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
The only way to see if v1.03 fixes things is to upgrade. Perhaps PRI have figured out the problem.

Jack
True, but it would be interesting if DRabbit can find a condition that seems to trip this fault with the known firmware. Of course thats academic if v1.03 provides a fix, I would just not be surprised if it doesn't.

---------- Post added 03-07-14 at 04:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Live View was not a factor when the runaway mirror happened to me.
Damn, there goes that theory :-)
03-07-2014, 07:57 AM - 1 Like   #70
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I would HOPE that if 1.03 provided a fix, Pentax would tell me, since I've been in touch with them so much about the issue. But stranger things have happened

Monday, I'm going to shoot with one SD card, but use live view a lot, and see what happens. If the mirror-flap does occur, then I'll try shooting the next day without using live-view.

My guess would be it's live-view causing it... and shooting time-lapse, you want to be able to use live view since the camera is likely on a tripod. However, I'm still open to the idea it might have to do with the 2 SD cards as well (which seems odd, but I'm open to it). The only way to truly test, is isolate both conditions, so that's what I'll try next.

Yeah, I don't like being the "go to" person for this... but at the same time, if we figure out what causes it, it's more likely to get fixed... which will mean I can keep the K3 with confidence. I really like the camera and don't want to have to get rid of it!
03-07-2014, 10:14 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
I would HOPE that if 1.03 provided a fix, Pentax would tell me, since I've been in touch with them so much about the issue. But stranger things have happened
Japanese manufacturers seem very hesitant to admit there's a problem. If they announce a fix, that acknowledges there was a problem, so they aren't likely to do that, IMHO.

QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Monday, I'm going to shoot with one SD card, but use live view a lot, and see what happens. If the mirror-flap does occur, then I'll try shooting the next day without using live-view.

My guess would be it's live-view causing it... and shooting time-lapse, you want to be able to use live view since the camera is likely on a tripod. However, I'm still open to the idea it might have to do with the 2 SD cards as well (which seems odd, but I'm open to it). The only way to truly test, is isolate both conditions, so that's what I'll try next.
Clearly it is not necessary for Live View to be involved, as in my situation. However, it could be indirectly causative. I suspect we're seeing a CPU issue that is induced by low voltage. I had my episode in temperatures below the recommended range. Low temps eat battery power. So does burst shooting, so does Live View, so does time lapse. What about writing to two cards, could that cause a voltage sag?

Last edited by audiobomber; 03-07-2014 at 10:32 AM.
03-10-2014, 11:04 AM - 1 Like   #72
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NOPE.
Update:


It's not live view or the number of SD cards in the camera. I was shooting today, only one SD card in camera and avoiding live-view like the plague, and the problem still cropped up again. I'm done. As soon as I have the go-ahead from Pentax, the K3 is going back in exchange for a K5-II (or two of them, considering the price difference now).

I've been patient enough. Can't be patient anymore.

Such a shame...
03-10-2014, 12:06 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
NOPE.
Update:


It's not live view or the number of SD cards in the camera. I was shooting today, only one SD card in camera and avoiding live-view like the plague, and the problem still cropped up again. I'm done. As soon as I have the go-ahead from Pentax, the K3 is going back in exchange for a K5-II (or two of them, considering the price difference now).

I've been patient enough. Can't be patient anymore.

Such a shame...
Hello DRabbit,

So does this mean you have applied Firmware 1.03 and you are still seeing these issues?

Best,

Little Ray
03-10-2014, 02:49 PM   #74
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If you are sending the K-3 back, Amy, you might as well do the firmware upgrade to v1.03 and see if it makes a difference.

Jack
03-10-2014, 05:40 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
NOPE.
Update:


It's not live view or the number of SD cards in the camera. I was shooting today, only one SD card in camera and avoiding live-view like the plague, and the problem still cropped up again. I'm done. As soon as I have the go-ahead from Pentax, the K3 is going back in exchange for a K5-II (or two of them, considering the price difference now).

I've been patient enough. Can't be patient anymore.

Such a shame...
For all the work you have put into this, Pentax should refund your money and send you a new K-3. One that works properly that is.

Thanks for your contribution.
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