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03-11-2014, 11:41 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by atomx Quote
I suspect it is hard related, unless it some kind of memory leak in the jpeg or time lapse engine that appears only after shooting a series of X jpegs corrupting the camera memory.. Im going to see if i can replicate the issue with my K3... I shoot RAW and also have the habit of turning my camera when not shooting so im constantly rebooting the camera so I wouldnt encounter the issue (if it is a memory leak) .
I turn my camera off a lot also, because sometimes that's just the easiest way to interrupt the time-lapse. In theory then, if that's rebooting the camera, I shouldn't have the problem either (if it's memory related).

I shoot JPG only.

I also shoot for 6-8 hours at a time. I've had the problem happen in the first 1/2 hour of shooting, but have also had the camera perform well all day to run into the problem in hour #7. No rhyme or reason. If you are going to try to replicate, be prepared to run the camera all day to be sure. I usually do sets of 500 shots, at 3-4 second intervals.

Also, I started a thread just to report in if you've had the problem...
so anyone who wants to, report your issue here:
Crazy-Ass Mirror Sickness - Report Yours Here


03-12-2014, 01:16 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
I turn my camera off a lot also, because sometimes that's just the easiest way to interrupt the time-lapse. In theory then, if that's rebooting the camera, I shouldn't have the problem either (if it's memory related).

I shoot JPG only.

I also shoot for 6-8 hours at a time. I've had the problem happen in the first 1/2 hour of shooting, but have also had the camera perform well all day to run into the problem in hour #7. No rhyme or reason. If you are going to try to replicate, be prepared to run the camera all day to be sure. I usually do sets of 500 shots, at 3-4 second intervals.

Also, I started a thread just to report in if you've had the problem...
so anyone who wants to, report your issue here:
Crazy-Ass Mirror Sickness - Report Yours Here
Turning off the camera at worst is doing a soft reboot. removing the battery will be doing a hard reboot.

When it occurs during the time lapse the camera isnt rebooted... You would turn the camera on (ie. restart/reboot), start the time lapse and at some "random" point during the time lapse it locks up or machine guns.. Due to the time to potentially replicate problem and the apparent randomness of the issue, regardless of if its software or hardware its going to take time for engineers to identify the issue . If the number of reported cases is statistically insignificant the issue may never be addressed..

If i were you I would be asking for Pentax to send you a new unit direct from Japan with a good chance it will come from a different "batch".. Getting replacements from the same location/supplier will likely mean you are getting stock from the same faulty batch . If it is a hardware issue - which seems probable id take a guess and defective memory chip).
03-12-2014, 05:18 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by atomx Quote
Due to the time to potentially replicate problem and the apparent randomness of the issue, regardless of if its software or hardware its going to take time for engineers to identify the issue . If the number of reported cases is statistically insignificant the issue may never be addressed..
If one man can get it to happen pretty much daily, with a single camera, it should be fairly easy to replicate at Pentax HQ, where they can run several instrumented cameras in parallel, which should get the issue happening on one of them pretty quickly and systematically, and which they can then proceed to debug. I'm not surprised that a fix wasn't in 1.03, given that the issue seems to have surfaced only a short while before that update was released. But I'd really hope there would be a fix in 1.04 (as long as it's a software-only issue). It's quite true that if it's not seen as a priority, perhaps they won't fix it, but given that this is a flagship model, one would think such an issue would get some attention. A lot of people are watching...

EDIT: Now that I think about it, Drabbit's returned cams should also get special treatment and be sent back to HQ for testing - it's not impossible he got unlucky and got two cams from a bad batch with some faulty electronic components inside...
03-12-2014, 06:18 AM   #94
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It's possible my two K3s came from the same batch, but since there was 3 months in between, it's also likely they weren't. And since Jack could replicate the problem fairly easily and is geographically pretty far away from me, with a much different serial number, I'm going to say it's not just a bad batch.

My first returned camera should have gone back to the tech I have been talking to, at least. But it didn't. And I don't think the 2nd one will either. Keep in mind too, I've been communicating with Pentax about this issue for months, through at least the last two firmware updates, if not all three. The first time I reported the problem to Pentax was December 10th. This was to the Pentax Rep I had already been dealing with. On the same day, he forwarded my email message to Pentax Repair, to a tech (or product specialist) there. I've been sending my information about the problem to both of them ever since.

Point being, it was way before 1.03 was close to coming out (March)... or even 1.02 (early February). I don't remember when 1.01 came out, but since the camera has only really be widely available since November and I was reporting the problem in early December... well, you see what I'm getting at.

03-12-2014, 06:25 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote

EDIT: Now that I think about it, Drabbit's returned cams should also get special treatment and be sent back to HQ for testing - it's not impossible he got unlucky and got two cams from a bad batch with some faulty electronic components inside...
"... it's not impossible he got unlucky and got two cams..."

I think you will find DRabbit is a she..

I sure hope the issue is addressed soon as it Ricoh should be trying to improve PR and be seen as a company willing to listen to their customer base. This can only encourage potential buyers to try Pentax/Ricoh..
03-12-2014, 06:39 AM   #96
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I'm sorry, DRabbit, I hadn't realized how low you've been on this. I can well understand that by now you just want a K-5 II. One must hope that the issue isn't in hardware... Then even if it was fixed, Pentax would probably never even admit to it, and there would simply be a certain serial number beyond which the problem doesn't occur.

At any rate, I'll just reiterate that this is a flagship model, so here's hoping this eventually gets the attention it deserves.

EDIT: Oh, and sorry about the gender mistake too.
03-12-2014, 08:55 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by atomx Quote
I suspect it is hardware related, unless its some kind of memory leak in the jpeg or time lapse engine, that appears only after shooting a series of X jpegs corrupting the camera memory.. Im going to see if i can replicate the issue with my K3... I shoot RAW and also have the habit of turning my camera when not shooting so im constantly rebooting the camera so I wouldnt encounter the issue (if it is a memory leak) .
I also shoot RAW and turn the camera off when not actively doing something, however I have had one mirror flop lockup and a couple of other sorts of lockup.
03-12-2014, 10:47 AM - 1 Like   #98
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Can Adam help here by pulling few 'strings' with Pentax -Ricoh Imaging? Looks like this issue is holding back many a fence sitter from purchasing a new K3?

03-12-2014, 12:53 PM   #99
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Yep,

I am one fence sitter. I had ordered the K3 but was able to cancel my order due to the reports I read about this particular issue. If it can be demonstratively resolved via firmware, then I will order. If it turns out to be a hardware issue then I am not sure I will order this model as there could be a potential dud in every box and I am not willing to take the risk or the hassle of having to deal with the retailer or the manufacturer.

Best,

Little Ray
03-12-2014, 05:30 PM   #100
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Hey guys, I encourage you all who have had the issue to report in within the other thread so we can get an accurate count... We know it's more than 5 people...
03-12-2014, 11:40 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Hey guys, I encourage you all who have had the issue to report in within the other thread so we can get an accurate count... We know it's more than 5 people...
Yes, last month I counted different 37 user names on PF who reported this fault and there have been a few more since.
03-13-2014, 08:33 AM   #102
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QuoteQuote:
An observation form the other thread:

QuoteOriginally posted by jhmos :
I have reproduced the fault under 1.03:

Didn't take long, 1768 shots. I also did 1000 shots yesterday without fault before I decided to upgrade from V1.02. I also decided to change to one of the prime lenses Amy used, in case it made any difference. Tried to make camera settings close to what Amy reported.
The other thing is I deliberately did is not charge the battery beforehand. It had taken over 1000 frames the day before.
Same camera as my first report, SN 4860588.

The values for Battery and temperature extracted by exiftool (version 9.54) were:
First frame of first interval session
111_0313/IMGP8029.JPG
Body Battery State : Full
Body Battery Voltage 1 : 6.76 V
Body Battery Voltage 2 : 6.54 V
Camera Temperature : 21 C
Camera Temperature 2 : 22.0 C
Camera Temperature 3 : 22.0 C
Last Frame recorded before lockup:
114_0313/IMGP9706.JPG
Body Battery State : Running Low
Body Battery Voltage 1 : 6.42 V
Body Battery Voltage 2 : 6.21 V
Camera Temperature : 27 C
Camera Temperature 2 : 31.8 C
Camera Temperature 3 : 31.8 C
I am going to repeat this with a fully charged battery each 500 shots to see if that makes any difference.

End of quote
Something I noticed right away in the data above is the battery voltage.

The Pentax Li-ion batteries usually have a 7.2v nominal value, discharged. That is 3.6v per cell. Charged they should be at atound 8v or 4v per cell.

Just for the fun of it, I went and measured a full battery out of the charger with a voltmeter and measured 7.98v (pretty close to full).

Then threw the battery in the K-3 and took a pic.

Readings are:

Camera Temperature : 22 C
Power Source : Body Battery
Body Battery State : Full
Body Battery Voltage 1 : 7.37 V
Body Battery Voltage 2 : 7.09 V.

I assume that your battery was full before your 1000 frames right?

For the records, I use Pentax batteries only and got the same readings from both. My K-3 has never had an episode of this mirror panic thing or a lockup. (knocking on wood).

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/254464-k3-crazy-mirror-sic...#ixzz2vrCrTtqg
03-15-2014, 06:48 AM   #103
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Hey Marc,

Over on DPReview we talked a bit about battery voltage, and I looked closely at my EXIF over the series of my photos in my test (from the video).

When I started that morning, the battery was already partially discharged. I think maybe at about 80% (but that's going by memory of when I put a new battery in). The EXIF data showed this:

Power Source : Body Battery
Body Battery State : Close to Full
Body Battery Voltage 1 : 6.81 V
Body Battery Voltage 2 : 6.57 V

Then another shot, later in the batch (shooting time-lapse) showed this:

Power Source : Body Battery
Body Battery State : Close to Full
Body Battery Voltage 1 : 6.80 V
Body Battery Voltage 2 : 6.56 V

And then the last 4 shots before the crazy mirror flap lock-up were this:

Power Source : Body Battery
Body Battery State : Close to Full
Body Battery Voltage 1 : 6.68 V
Body Battery Voltage 2 : 6.43 V

Power Source : Body Battery
Body Battery State : Close to Full
Body Battery Voltage 1 : 6.65 V
Body Battery Voltage 2 : 6.42 V

Power Source : Body Battery
Body Battery State : Close to Full
Body Battery Voltage 1 : 6.65 V
Body Battery Voltage 2 : 6.41 V

Power Source : Body Battery
Body Battery State : Close to Full
Body Battery Voltage 1 : 6.65 V
Body Battery Voltage 2 : 6.41 V

From looking at this data, and other images in the series, it is my understanding that the way the voltage is reported, you'll see it steadily go down as the battery slowly depletes. In the photos right before the lockup, I don't see anything that indicates a sudden drop or sudden spike, so there doesn't appear to be any kind of power surge, or at least if there is, it's not recorded in the EXIF data. In regards to Voltage, nothing seems out of the ordinary.

Keep in mind too, I've had the crazy mirror flapping happen with a variety of batteries (all Pentax, but old and new), and in different states of charge. Most common is within the first hour of a newly charged battery, but I've also had it happen with a well depleted battery (like after 3-4 hours of shooting timelapse).

Last edited by DRabbit; 03-15-2014 at 06:53 AM.
03-15-2014, 07:11 AM   #104
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Hello All,

I am wondering if anyone has this mirror flap issue with the K3 Silver Edition?

Best,

Little Ray
03-15-2014, 08:59 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Little Ray Quote
Hello All,

I am wondering if anyone has this mirror flap issue with the K3 Silver Edition?

Best,

Little Ray
Looking around on the forum quickly, yes, I found at least one report of crazy mirror with the K3 Silver. Also, I found another report of a lockup, but it wasn't clear whether it was with mirror-flapping or not.
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