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02-06-2014, 09:49 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
To the above point, there is no such thing as a professional camera -- just professionals who use given cameras and professional service supplied by the company that sells the camera.
And if your a Nikon shooter your not even considered as professional until you own at least two "pro" grade cameras to join the Nikon professional service support. D600/610 is not included. :P I would hope the Df isn't either. D800 or D4 owners only club

02-06-2014, 09:55 AM   #17
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it's about branding and selling cameras. it's got very little to do with the actual people who take pictures.

It's a story they're telling you because they want their products regarded in a certain way and judged against comparable models in order to optimize their appeal to customers. It's little more than that.
02-06-2014, 09:58 AM   #18
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I am just a hobbyist with no real desire to change careers, but if I did I'd agree with the "support" issue. Do pros in the USA still have to deal with CRIS and Randall like the rest of us; no special support team?
02-06-2014, 10:10 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
That's the main reason. I was reading an article about a Canon pro going to Sotchi, and Canon reps are on the spot, repair crews also, they have loaners, renal items, etc. I guess as long as you don't do that, you're not considered "pro".

Of course, this relates in no way to the quality of the images.
Pentax has no renal items?

02-06-2014, 10:13 AM - 3 Likes   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
it also depends on your definition of "professional"
Yep...my Chamonix 045N-2 is considered to be a professional's tool, but its frame rate is alarmingly low



On a more serious note, I have always considered that professional tools are generally obviously apparent when taken in hand. Pick up the Pentax 645N or 6x7. Those two cameras are all business. Neither is designed as a hobbyist's toy. The K-3 has (I believe) the qualifications, but things like professional-level support have hampered wide acceptance by people who make their livings with a camera.


Steve
02-06-2014, 10:17 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Generally the word "professional" means you've been paid for your work.
While that’s a good point, I assume you’d also agree that a pro knows what they’re doing. Being pro also means good photographic technic… not just getting paid (at least to me it does. I don’t want a “pro” who gets paid but doesn’t “know” what they are doing). But in my limited knowledge of the features that pros want, you seem to have created a good listing of what limits the Pentax flagship.
02-06-2014, 10:27 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattieyp3 Quote
While that’s a good point, I assume you’d also agree that a pro knows what they’re doing. Being pro also means good photographic technic… not just getting paid (at least to me it does. I don’t want a “pro” who gets paid but doesn’t “know” what they are doing). But in my limited knowledge of the features that pros want, you seem to have created a good listing of what limits the Pentax flagship.
absolutely. but you can never know everything, so it comes down to just knowing more and being more skilled than the other pro photographers in your selected price bracket.

By the definition of professional all the $60 burst drive and burn shooters on kijiji and craigslist are professionals.
02-06-2014, 10:32 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy75 Quote
Pentax doesn't really have professional service and support
This is probably the two main reasons.

Product placement, give aways, sponsorship, call whatever you want, but within the pro communities Pentax have in the past been pretty light on the ground too.

02-06-2014, 10:36 AM   #24
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This is a poor analogy - but - Chevrolet can sell perhaps 250 Corvette C7-R USSC full-racing vehicles a year. They hope to sell 75,000 Z-06 Corvettes, which combine much of the racing equipment under the hood with a (spartan) passenger-legal driving compartment. Clearly there are 250 or so professional race drivers who will use that tool - and win races (and championships) using it.

But next to an Aston Martin, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Lotus or other racing 'name' Chevy doesn't get much respect. In fact, a 58 year old man driving a Corvette Z-06 is thought to have an appendage problem, while the same man driving a Porsche 911 GT3 is surely a CEO.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-06-2014 at 02:46 PM.
02-06-2014, 10:50 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In fact, a 58 year old man driving a Corvette Z-06 is thought to have an appendage problem, while the same man driving a Porsche 911 GT3 is surely a CEO.
...also with an appendage problem.
02-06-2014, 10:53 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
...also with an appendage problem.
why I can drive a Subaru or a Honda. and use a Pentax.
02-06-2014, 10:55 AM   #27
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How About Lenses?

I agree that the K-3 ticks most of the boxes for a 'Pro' DSLR-cropped body, and the K-5 (series) was already pretty close, too.
But things like dealer, repair, rental and service availability are always going to be factors, whether all users need them or not. It's 'insurance' in a way, if something goes wrong, how easy/hard, fast/slow is it to fix or replace?
But, to me, the biggest factor is new, current lenses. If you're looking to buy new (disregarding the FF or crop option, for the time being), Canon and Nikon offer many OEM lenses Pentax doesn't. Not just the bazooka telephotos, either. Here's a few;

Canon and Nikon 24mm f/1.4- $ 2,000.
Canon and Nikon 24mm f/2.8- $ 400- $600.
Canon and Nikon 35mm f/1.4- $1,500-$ 1,700.
Canon and Nikon 200mm-400mm f/4.0 C- $ 11,300, N- $ 7,000.
Canon and Nikon (80) 100mm-400mm f/4.5-5.6 C- $ 1,700, N- $ 2,700.
Canon and Nikon 600mm f/4.0 C- $ 12,000, N- $ 10,000.
Canon and Nikon 300mm f/2.8 C- $ 7,000 N- $ 6,000.
Canon and Nikon 135mm f/2.0 C- $ 1,100, N- $ 1,300.
Canon 85mm f/1.2 $2,200. Nikon 85mm f/1.4 $ 1,500.
Canon and Nikon 85mm f/1.8 C- $ 420, N- $ 500.
Canon 100mm f/2.0 $ 500, Nikon 105mm f/2.0 $ 1,100.
Canon and Nikon 80mm-200mm f/2.8 C (IS II) $2,500, N- $ 2,400.
Canon 16mm-35mm f/2.8- $ 1,700
Nikon 17mm-35mm f/2.8- $ 1,500.

Plus, several tilt/Shift lenses each, several macros each, Zeiss and Sony lenses made for C/N, better and newer 3rd party lens support.
Now, you and I may not be looking for several-thousand -$$ fast glass, but some pros are. Pentax doesn't even offer (in OEM) the entry-level 80-200 f/2.8 zoom, a basic 'Pro' lens, much less the 300mm f/2.8, another standby pro lens.
F/1.4, 1.8 and 2.0 primes are hard to come by in PK (native) lenses, fairly easy in C/N.
Until Ricoh addresses the 'Pro' market with fast, long (or, both), or specialty glass, the pros will look elsewhere.
Oh, sure, some of these lenses are available in Tamron or Sigma (for Pentax), but those companies also offer lenses for C/N that aren't available in PK. 3rd party offerings are heavily weighted towards the 2- 800 lb gorillas, too.
Pros need pro gear, not just bodies, but lenses, too.
JMO,
Ron

Last edited by rbefly; 02-06-2014 at 11:16 AM.
02-06-2014, 10:56 AM   #28
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Many photog little companies turned me down because of my Pentax gear. Screw them. I'm pro and independent now. I took a big piece of their pie with my k-5s. A good body will help you but most importantly choose your lenses wisely, understand that marketing is 60% of the job and master post processing.

Last edited by Parallax; 02-06-2014 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Link to personal site.
02-06-2014, 11:05 AM   #29
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I wouldn't necessarily think that a pro has to have the best equipment or the best technique. The most important thing is to be practical. And the more practical, the more profitable.

So that means having tools that are good enough, without consuming more time. So, despite the fact that Pentax gear is superior, Canons and Nikons are good enough.

And their support system is much better, that is worth a lot, as others have noted.

Another thing. There has been much discussion about moronic clients who state that their clients must shoot with a FF camera. We know that is dumb. But from the photographer's perspective, he/she can't take any chances on being disqualified from a future assignment, so he/she may choose to go that route, just to avoid being disqualified. I can't argue with anyone who has to eat. (Of course that bit of extra dynamic range can make a difference in event photography too, where you can't stage everything.)

So hats off to the pros, we can/should cut you a lot of slack for going with the, uh, inferior brands. And full-time pros deserve more slack.

Note; my post was not directed at the previous poster, our posts crossed. Glad you were able to go independent.
02-06-2014, 11:09 AM   #30
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My experience is that clients have no idea what a FF camera is.
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