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03-03-2014, 11:57 AM   #16
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This is what I needed, I really appreciate you guys. I been looking at images on k30, k5, k3 @ higher ISO settings and I think I'm the problem, no my gear. I'm Pentax 4 life, so I'll work on my techniques and get some good glass and maybe a k5ii for a backup body in weddings. Last thing I need to do is burn money when I don't need to. Thanks again for the wakeup call and no FF for me. One last question to keep my k30 as a backup, is the k3 worth the extra money or do you find that the k5ii is pretty compatible with the k3?

03-03-2014, 12:18 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by clostoyo Quote
I currently have a Pentax k30 with a 50 1.7, SMC Pentax-DA* 50-135mm F2.8, the 2 kit lens, Metz 44 flash and I have been requested to do some wedding and club photography. Needless to say that my k30 doesn't work well in High ISO and i dont like to use my flash in club setting. I have been wanting to buy a k3 but have also been itching to step up my game and go FF, the D3 can be found for $1800 with 50,xxx actuations. I would love to stay in Pentax but it seems like even the k3 wont help me much in my High ISO needs.
Maybe I'm coming in a bit late but IMHO you'll be hard pressed to notice the difference in low light capability with the D3 compared to the K-30. Accurate testing does show the D-3 to be numerically better but not by a large enough margin make an easily noticeable difference.
03-03-2014, 12:35 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
You badly want to go full frame so do it. You won't be happy till you do because in your mind the K-3 isn't enough camera for you.
+1 on that. If a FF is what you want and feel that it'll be better, you will always hate your K3, no matter how good it is.

I know of a few photographers that actually prefer using their lighter and smaller APSC camera with a small DX zoom for weddings or long photoshoots. But it doesn't scream I'M A PHOTOGRAPHER as much as a D3 with a 70-200 on it. But after a full day of shooting, they sure appreciate the lighter weight.

As I said earlier, high ISO will be handled better by a current generation APSC than it will be by a 5-6 year old FF. And reducing your frame from 24 to 16 or 12 mpix (in post) will also help.

Also, I don't know about the K30 but my Kr loves to increase ISO as much as it can when it's set to auto ISO, on my K5 I can adjust how the ISO will be handled automatically but that option is missing from the Kr. This is to prevent camera shake as much as possible. But the auto mode always assume that the photographer has Parkinson. Try setting your auto ISO to 100-6400 and see if this helps. If you're using manual ISO, try to limit yourself to 6400 or 12 800. Learn to hold steady, practice your breathing and trust the SR a bit. As steadier hand will let you use much slower shutter speed, allowing you to use lower ISO.

I know it's not apples-to-apples but back in the film days, very few people that I know of would use anything more than 800 ISO film...

There is also the photographer to take into account. Or his way of shooting. I usually shoot P mode, auto ISO 80 to 1600. If my shutter speed drop to 1/30 or below and my aperture is already as wide as I want it to be, I will manually increase the ISO to 3200 or 6400. But depending on what I am shooting, I might also drop my shutter as slow as 1/8 to keep the ISO down. For a club setting, 1/30 may be pushing it a bit and very shallow DOF isn't always great so increasing ISO makes sense. But unless it's a dark cave, I can't see how the ISO would need to be higher than 6400 or 12800. Even at these level some NR will bring the pictures to a decent level, certainly good enough for 8x10 prints.

Remember that besides pixel peepers, most human beings will look at photographs on a shitty computer monitor set at 1920x1080... or on prints in a photo album in 4x6 format with a few 8x10. And most people will notice composition much more than they will notice resolution.
03-03-2014, 01:29 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by clostoyo Quote
This is what I needed, I really appreciate you guys. I been looking at images on k30, k5, k3 @ higher ISO settings and I think I'm the problem, no my gear. I'm Pentax 4 life, so I'll work on my techniques and get some good glass and maybe a k5ii for a backup body in weddings. Last thing I need to do is burn money when I don't need to. Thanks again for the wakeup call and no FF for me. One last question to keep my k30 as a backup, is the k3 worth the extra money or do you find that the k5ii is pretty compatible with the k3?
The biggest difference in the K5 II and the K30 (other than body style, availability of grip and everything else ) is that the K5 II will focus in a lot lower light. As to whether or not it would make a good back up, I think it would be fine. Files will process pretty similarly. The only problem is the whole muscle memory thing, when you go from one camera body to another. I have a K5 II and a K3 and the auto focus button is in a different location between the two and I often find myself searching for it going from one to other.

03-03-2014, 02:04 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by lister6520 Quote
Maybe I'm coming in a bit late but IMHO you'll be hard pressed to notice the difference in low light capability with the D3 compared to the K-30. Accurate testing does show the D-3 to be numerically better but not by a large enough margin make an easily noticeable difference.
According to DxOmark, the D3 is just about a full stop better than the K3 through most of the ISO range, and the K3 & K30 are pretty close to each other. It looks like some real raw-NR kicks in with the K30 at about ISO 1600.

The D3 brings very good, fast and accurate AF, especially in low-light. It's main drawback - size, then maybe MP, although most wedding photogs seem to do fine with the D3 & D700's 12MP still. The D3 has less DR at base ISO, but then pulls a little ahead after around ISO 400. and they match up again around ISO 3200.

You should handle one if at all possible to see if the size is a drawback for you - personally I don't like the size of the D3/D4 or gripped D800.

.
03-03-2014, 02:22 PM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by clostoyo Quote
I currently have a Pentax k30 with a 50 1.7, SMC Pentax-DA* 50-135mm F2.8, the 2 kit lens, Metz 44 flash and I have been requested to do some wedding and club photography. Needless to say that my k30 doesn't work well in High ISO and i dont like to use my flash in club setting. I have been wanting to buy a k3 but have also been itching to step up my game and go FF, the D3 can be found for $1800 with 50,xxx actuations. I would love to stay in Pentax but it seems like even the k3 wont help me much in my High ISO needs.

On those two things:

- Is it paying enough?

- Why spend the money on an old piece off electronics (instead off a new D610/D800/Df)?
03-03-2014, 02:48 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by clostoyo Quote
I currently have a Pentax k30 with a 50 1.7, SMC Pentax-DA* 50-135mm F2.8, the 2 kit lens, Metz 44 flash and I have been requested to do some wedding and club photography. Needless to say that my k30 doesn't work well in High ISO and i dont like to use my flash in club setting. I have been wanting to buy a k3 but have also been itching to step up my game and go FF, the D3 can be found for $1800 with 50,xxx actuations. I would love to stay in Pentax but it seems like even the k3 wont help me much in my High ISO needs.

I own the D700 which uses the same sensor as the D3. One thing I can tell you is that the output of the D700 looks "organic". At high ISOs the grain looks like that of film. Not the yucky smudgy type like other DSLRs. Go to dpreview and compare the images of the D700 with the D600, A99, D800, 5D3. When you hit ISO 3200 others crash and burn. The D700 has very minimal chroma noise even. Sometimes I wonder if newer sensors are really getting "better".
03-03-2014, 03:57 PM - 2 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by clostoyo Quote
I know a lot of weeding photographers that swear by the D3 and I can get one for a decent price
My advice: don't listen to weeding photographers.

03-03-2014, 05:54 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by clostoyo Quote
One last question to keep my k30 as a backup, is the k3 worth the extra money or do you find that the k5ii is pretty compatible with the k3?
Just buy one camera at a time. Maybe get a K-5II on the cheap, and use the K-30 as a second body. If you find down the track that the K-30 is holding you back, replace it.

My personal journey: I started doing regular concert photography two years ago with a K-5 and a K10D, then replaced the latter with another K-5. I then upgraded one to a K-5IIs, and eventually the other to a K-3. I also picked up a K-01 along the way, which comes along sometimes with a fisheye mounted. Each upgrade was worth it to me, but I'm sure my learning curve has more to do with my improved output than the gear.
03-03-2014, 06:01 PM   #25
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OK....

K-3


D700


D700 pixel level


K-3 same size..



I have no idea where this great difference is you're seeing.

And you're giving up about 1000 lw/ph, 2700, 1700. Thats a lot of resolution. About the same difference as a K-3 to D800. I wouldn't do it. I can barely see the difference at 3200 ISO, and giving up 1000 lw/ph, that's giving up too much.

Last edited by normhead; 03-03-2014 at 06:13 PM.
03-03-2014, 07:08 PM   #26
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If the noise truly bothers you, then go with FF. I do weddings and events, and frequently use high ISO settings such as 6400+ The results aren't bad, but they are that much cleaner using FF cameras and I think the difference is big enough to justify a purchase. The dynamic range will likely be better as well and the lack thereof is annoying me more than the noise level TBH.

BUT, as someone mentioned, do have the size and weight in mind. I've for a long time longed for FF cameras for my wedding gigs - right up till I tried a D600 with a 24-70 lens. That's when I realized working with 2 FF bodies + lenses is going to be much more challenging for me. If your physique is top notch then I guess you can go right ahead to FF.
03-03-2014, 08:07 PM   #27
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I just did a pro shoot at an event, and all of it was low light, was not allowed to use flash either, how did I pull it off? well I happen to have the same lens you have and the similar sensor in my K-5. The lens was rented and it was a 50~135mm, this lens performed flawlessly and brought in all the light that I needed rarely ever went above 1600 ISO. I make big bux at this shoot and they are setting me up for more this summer, I am currently waiting for the used lens I just bought (50~135mm) and I am currently looking for a used 16~50 f2.8 for a good price. Ya I used just these two zooms and took around 1000 images that 90% were usable, I made well over $2.50 per shot on average, and these two lenses were all I used! AND with a classic K-5! This camera has a similar sensor as to your K-30, in fact I think the sensor in your camera is a little better than the one in mine.
I would love to have the k-3, but why? this K-5 is doing awesome, I just want to get me a K-5IIs for an upgrade, but mainly for the better AF.
If you are "Jonesing" for the FF camp then more power to you, but to be honest with you I really dont think it will be "stepping up your game" like you mentioned. "stepping up your game" to me means becoming a better photographer regardless of equipment. Ya a FF would be nice but it has its place in photography just as much as an APSC camera, to me it just has different uses. My hat is off to you for deciding to go with another brand instead of Pentax because I am really surprised at those who are holding their breath and holding out in hopes that Pentax is going to get off their highneis and come out with one.....that is just sheer stupidity!
Pentax is just not going to come out with a FF folks, and if they do then they will probably have several issues until they are all ironed out a couple model upgrades down the road, so I say to you, go get a Nikon or a Canon or whatever FF you choose, get some lenses and get out there and shoot some images! you want one !, now go get one! but I think it would be wise to keep your APSC equipment for other aspects, FF and APSC will compliment each other, they are just as useful on an equal basis but for different things.
I personally like Nikon FF equipment and will always stick with Pentax for APSC, do I need FF?.......na not really just yet.........yet lol.
I am currently collecting a full rang of fast zooms and will then mmost likely collect different useful primes for my line of work, but that is way down the road in financial terms, I have a couple weddings lined up and these zooms will suffice, even my K-5 with my K-x for backup will be more than adequate, besides I really dig it when someone walks up to me and inquires about why I shoot with Pentax.....then I wont shut up lol
03-03-2014, 08:20 PM   #28
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I think that the k5 does a better job at focusing and handling higher ISO. I love my 50-135 but I rented a 16-50 for a wedding and low light shoot and its not at the same level as my 50-135, Sigma makes a 17-50 that scores better all around then the 16-50.
03-03-2014, 08:49 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by clostoyo Quote
Needless to say that my k30 doesn't work well in High ISO
I have done 3 weddings with my K-30........Hasn't let me down yet......Just the Casual shots with (sometimes flash on).......Use the P setting
03-03-2014, 09:04 PM   #30
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I have nevet used the P setting in my k30, I like the annual or aperture mode at the very least. I really believe that the lens that I rented was one of the issues.
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