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05-22-2014, 09:14 AM   #256
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(Sorry, I couldn't help myself)

QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
So the score is: Internet forum posts fixed my mirror flop: 0 Returning the camera for warranty repair fixed my mirror flop: 1
QuoteOriginally posted by fcrespo Quote
Thanks for your post, DRabbit, it is informative.

I have news. I returned the K3 back again after 24 hours. The in-camera flash did not work. When opening the flash lid, the camera just would not take pictures. During repair they replaced the flash circuit, so maybe this is related. The guys of www.photo-univers.fr this time answered nicely "send us the camera and we will change it". So now I am waiting for a new K3, hopefully.
QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
All along I have encouraged everyone to contact Ricoh directly even just to report their problem. I've posted this link before, but here it is again. I suggest everyone who has had the problem use the form to report the issue and include in the notes a link back to this thread, to back up your experience with other users who have had similar experiences. Ricoh Imaging Support
QuoteOriginally posted by PALADIN85020 Quote
This is the best suggestion I've heard so far. I had not thought to do this, but am grateful for the link, and I just now used it. I suggest all K-3 owners who have had this problem use this link, report the problem, and thereby flood Ricoh with complaints from pissed-off owners. They need to wake up and do something. John

QuoteOriginally posted by PALADIN85020 Quote
I complained about the mirror flutter problem on my K-3 (it's happened twice since Nov. of last year) by e-mail to Ricoh customer service. FYI, here is their reply.

John

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear John,

Thank you for contacting RICOH.

We have had a few customer reports of a possible issue with their K-3s. Occasionally, when shooting in either single-frame or time-lapse mode, the camera mirror will start moving rapidly up and down separate from the shutter opening and closing. Turning off the camera does not stop the "mirror flop" and the only way to restore the camera to normal operation is to turn off the camera, remove the battery, then put the battery back in and turn the camera back on. This issue can occur with a fully or partially-charged battery and with/without a battery grip attached.

A summary of these reports have already been submitted to RICOH in Japan for review and evaluation. To assist with the evaluation please provid us with a few details such as what shooting you are using when the issue occurs, the drive mode (single, continuous, time-lapse), if a battery grip is installed, and what the shooting conditions are when the malfunction occurs (indoors or out, temperature, dry or raining, etc.).

This issue is currently being tested and reviewed, with a goal of identifying a possible cause and developing a solution.

If you are in need of further assistance, please respond to this email or call our technical support center at 800-877-0155.

Sincerely,
Randall S.
RICOH IMAGING AMERICAS CORPORATION
PHONE: 800.234.0276 / 800.877.0155

So much for `the score'... and while it is obvious that posting here won't magically fix anyone's camera, collecting the data (and sharing Ricoh's contact info) might help solve the problem a little faster.

05-22-2014, 09:49 AM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
And let me address their warranty service directly. I know some people have suggested I should have had my camera fixed. I had my first one replaced and that had the problem too. I was also not advised to send it in for repair since they didn't know what was causing the issue. And lets not even mention that their repair service, at least in the USA is notoriously slow as slugs. I actually had a lens replacement approved in March for the dreaded SDM failure... a well known issue... and sent my broken one to them on 3/24. This is for a replacement, which should be much easier than fixing. I still don't have a new lens back yet.
Let us not wonder why pros pass Pentax right on by.

I bought a K-50 18-135 combo a few weeks back from KEH. It was a Pentax refurb and at a great price. It went right back to KEH. The viewfinder had a yellowish stain right in the middle of it. This is on a refurbished camera that benefited from a human touching and inspecting it.

I was hoping Ricoh's culture would dominate the old Pentax culture of sweep things under the rug and quietly fix things on the sly, never admitting a real issue exists.

Sadly, I think the Pentax old guard still exists. It's going to do nothing but hurt the brand even further over time. If Ricoh is smart they'll cut out the dead wood and get on with building good cameras with fewer shipping issues and address those issues in a faster more formal method in the future. A little transparency would be nice.

My only Pentax at the moment is my MX and that's not likely to change as much as I might like it to. My current experience with a refurb camera and seeing this issue in the K3, but mostly seeing how Pentax/Ricoh is handling the issue has diminished my desire to increase my ownership at this time.
05-22-2014, 12:12 PM   #258
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I just asked this question on another thread but has anyone experienced this problem while using manual focus lenses? There would be a lot less current draw when using manual focus lenses, Just the old QA engineer in me pondering this issue a bit. My gut feeling on this issue is that the logic voltage is momentarily dropping sending the logic circuits in spasms. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the logic voltage control circuit was adjusted to add an additional 0.2Vdc.
05-22-2014, 01:16 PM   #259
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Original Poster
Gryhnd -- Thank you for sharing this! This is a better response than the one I got a couple of weeks ago when I used the form on their site. You are right, at least they are acknowledging it now.

QuoteQuote:
Quote:
Dear Bruce,

Thank you for contacting RICOH.

We have had a few customer reports of a possible issue with their K-3s. Occasionally, when shooting in either single-frame or time-lapse mode, the camera mirror will start moving rapidly up and down separate from the shutter opening and closing. Turning off the camera does not stop the "mirror flop" and the only way to restore the camera to normal operation is to turn off the camera, remove the battery, then put the battery back in and turn the camera back on. This issue can occur with a fully or partially-charged battery and with/without a battery grip attached.

A summary of these reports have already been submitted to RICOH in Japan for review and evaluation. Thank you for providing the details about the camera settings and shooting conditions when this happened with your camera. I will forward this information to our product manager in the corporate office.

This issue is currently being tested and reviewed, with a goal of identifying a possible cause and developing a solution.

If you are in need of further assistance, please respond to this email or call our technical support center at 800-877-0155.

Sincerely,
Randall S.
RICOH IMAGING AMERICAS CORPORATION
PHONE: 800.234.0276 / 800.877.0155


05-22-2014, 02:30 PM   #260
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I wonder if Randall is the Randy mentioned here

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/115-pentax-k-5/152033-k5-mirror-flops-smo...ml#post1765608
05-22-2014, 06:37 PM - 1 Like   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by RyanW Quote
Let us not wonder why pros pass Pentax right on by.
To get a D600 so they can use the excess oil slinging around on the mirror to lubricate their car?

You may be right, and Ricoh may be no different that Hoya, or worse? However, we don't know that yet one way or another. I find it tough to be too hard on Pentax cameras. I had a Ds.....Perfect! I had a K10D.....Perfect! I had a K20D...better than perfect! I have a K5...also better than perfect! ...and that is honest, because I would have squealed like a stuck pig if they hadn't been!
SDM lenses? Hear me squeal...loud and clear!

Ricoh seems a little slow on their response to this problem, but not having any access to what obstacles they are encountering, it's hard to say it is not without good reason. I totally agree with the "more transparency" and better communication....however, that could apply to thousands of corporations and the majority of camera makers.....not just Pentax.
If you don't want to buy a Pentax, I think you need better reasons than the ones you gave, because they are going to fit most of the camera makers out there...unfortunately!

Best Regards!
05-24-2014, 11:40 PM   #262
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Now I also got the flapping problem. I use the K-3 mostly for portrait work and it was fine for about 2 months, then in the last week it has occurred twice during portrait session.

Both times where pretty similar: outdoor, around 20C (Swedish summer), daytime and sunny. I was using the D-BG5 (with a genuine D-LI90) both times, and lenses where either the FA43 och FA77. I always start out with fully charged batteries, and the flapping occurred perhaps a couple of hundred shots in for each session (in time probably after 15-20 minutes). Single AF-point mode, Aperture Priority, Single Frame drive mode.

Camera serial number: 4866766 bought new in Sweden april 2014
05-25-2014, 09:43 AM   #263
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QuoteQuote:
(Sorry, I couldn't help myself)
Obviously.

Wasn't it you that recently posted this?:

"In any case, it is time for me to respect the wishes of the OP, and stop posting in this thread, as I have no information about the problem to contribute."

QuoteQuote:
So much for `the score'... and while it is obvious that posting here won't magically fix anyone's camera, collecting the data (and sharing Ricoh's contact info) might help solve the problem a little faster.
Really? Care to explain (with facts and data) how posting anything here will get your camera fixed faster?

Posting here is meaningless in terms of getting your camera repaired or this problem resolved. Might I suggest that you undertake a little history lesson and do some research on this forum as well as here: Pentax SDM Firmware Petition to see how effective these online crusades have been with one very large and ongoing Pentax problem?

1232 signers on the SDM petition with forum lists and surveys going back to at least 2009. Pentax will repair your SDM lens, but they still sell the same design to this day, and they still fail. I have no hard data to know for sure, but given the age of the SDM design, the number of lenses it is installed in, and the continuing reports of failures, there has to have been thousands of SDM failures, yet that design has not been changed. I am sure that that reporting here accomplishes at least one thing: frustrated consumers get to vent and commiserate, and I understand the need for some folks to do so even if it accomplishes only that.

It was a good suggestion to use the Ricoh contact form, as the more cameras that get directly reported/returned to Ricoh, the better.

Ray

05-25-2014, 12:44 PM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
Posting here is meaningless in terms of getting your camera repaired or this problem resolved.
Unfortunately, you are so right. Sending your camera back for repair or refund is the ONLY way to get this resolved. I'm on my 3rd DA*50-135 SDM lens, and only one of those was covered under warranty...the rest were out of my pocket expense....considerable expense.

The shame is that the 50-135 is such an excellent lens otherwise....as the K3 appears to be such an excellent camera ..otherwise. This defect is going to show what Ricoh is made of, and will affect their future more than they seem to realize to date. They can take a lesson from Fuji, bite the bullet and make the repair regardless of expense, or suffer a tarnished reputation...like the SDM lenses suffer.

We are not knocking Ricoh by asking that they do the right thing......but we probably will if they don't. Maybe this is complicated and they are having a hard time isolating the problem......let's hope that's the case. It wasn't the case with SDM.......the problem was quickly found, but there was never an announced solution...because Pentax never acknowledged the problem. These kind of games do not build confidence in today's world...or any world!

Regards!
05-25-2014, 04:25 PM   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
Really? Care to explain (with facts and data) how posting anything here will get your camera fixed faster? Posting here is meaningless in terms of getting your camera repaired or this problem resolved. Might I suggest that you undertake a little history lesson and do some research on this forum as well as here: Pentax SDM Firmware Petition to see how effective these online crusades have been with one very large and ongoing Pentax problem?
Neither I (nor anyone else posting in this thread, as far as I can recall) has claimed that posting here will fix any cameras. If you want to have an argument about a claim like that - find someone who has made that claim and go for it. Nor has anyone here suggested collecting signatures and asking for a fix (or a firmware update), so I'm not sure where you are going with that comparison (sorry - history lesson).

The information collected here has been forwarded to Ricoh (and apparently received, as reported in a related thread). Whether or not this information helps them isolate the problem and find a fix is something that only time will tell, and so the same has to be said about the relative merits of posting here. So far, the anecdotal evidence suggests that the Ricoh engineers do not yet know how to fix the problem (E.g., Amy Medina was explicitly told not to send her camera in for repair and the replacement unit she received instead had the same flaw).

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Maybe this is complicated and they are having a hard time isolating the problem......
Exactly - so how is collecting information that might help isolate the problem `meaningless'? I don't understand the objections to this thread.
05-25-2014, 05:31 PM   #266
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Well Yorik if I didn't already have a clean K-3, I probably wouldn't buy one now with this thread berating the camera. Instead I would have stayed with my trusty dependable istDS and not be enjoying the new technology and capabilities in my photo shooting now! A few dozen people can influence purchases- but maybe that is good. Sometimes the only thing that corporations understand and listen to is their bottom line sales numbers. Certainly that happened to the Nikon D600. Funny I was going to change to the D600 or D800, but with the forum talk about the problems with these two camera, I stuck with Pentax. And now we have this..............
05-25-2014, 05:48 PM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by yorik Quote
Neither I (nor anyone else posting in this thread, as far as I can recall) has claimed that posting here will fix any cameras. If you want to have an argument about a claim like that - find someone who has made that claim and go for it. Nor has anyone here suggested collecting signatures and asking for a fix (or a firmware update), so I'm not sure where you are going with that comparison (sorry - history lesson).

The information collected here has been forwarded to Ricoh (and apparently received, as reported in a related thread). Whether or not this information helps them isolate the problem and find a fix is something that only time will tell, and so the same has to be said about the relative merits of posting here. So far, the anecdotal evidence suggests that the Ricoh engineers do not yet know how to fix the problem (E.g., Amy Medina was explicitly told not to send her camera in for repair and the replacement unit she received instead had the same flaw).



Exactly - so how is collecting information that might help isolate the problem `meaningless'? I don't understand the objections to this thread.
To quote a famous US President "There you go again" not posting because you do not have anything to add and do not have a K3, and I see that you are still "respecting" the OPs wishes.

See Rupert's reply above. Maybe then you will understand......

If not, I cannot help you.

Ray
05-25-2014, 06:21 PM   #268
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There is nothing wrong with this thread or the stated intended purpose, as I see it, but there does seem to be some confusion about how to get the problem remedied.
Using past experience we can see that with Pentax, Nikon, Fuji, and many others, what made the difference with past malfunction repair was returned cameras and stagnant sales...not a thread on some website. This thread might be useful if sent to Ricoh, but if cameras are not returned for repair or refund.....it will matter little to them about a few guys talking. In the end, there will most likely be the pain of a return, either for repair or replacement, and hopefully fast turnarounds.

Meanwhile, there is no harm in speculating the cause or lamenting the pain here in public. Everyone that is frustrated needs the ability to vent it someplace, if done in a reasonable manner. As stated, I don't have a K3...and may or may not ever...but I am invested in Pentax and we are all riding in the same boat. Unless Ricoh drops the ball, as was done with the SDM issue, there is no cause to bash Ricoh as they look for a solution. Even Mighty Nikon has had their problems...we all know the nature of the business, and these are high tech devices, subject to glitches that are not always foreseen during production and testing.

Look at it this way.....a secretary brings the CEO a copy of this thread.....all 15-20 pages of it. He looks it over, and asks for a count on returned cameras for repair or replacement........the secretary hands him a list containing (one) camera. He takes that copy of this thread and asks for the trash can. That's how it works in the real world...like it or not.

Regards!
05-25-2014, 06:23 PM   #269
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I have the same problem with my k-3
Bought : 11/31/2013
Serial # : 4833947

Settings : two sd cards ( one pentax flu card), Aperture priority (A), battery handle present.
Last occurence: this afternoon (may 25th, 2014)
# of occurences : 3 times
Mario Groleau

Last edited by mario_tr; 05-26-2014 at 01:32 PM.
05-25-2014, 10:48 PM   #270
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Amy - Please remove the star from my name. I only have one K-3. And I have not had a mirror flap episode for a few months now.

Jack
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