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06-11-2014, 01:59 PM   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Very interesting. Of course, I think it also proves you wrong as well, with your battery assumption. LOL

Just goes to show that not everyone knows everything. You and me included. :P
So True

06-11-2014, 03:45 PM - 1 Like   #347
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IMPORTANT UPDATE!

So as mentioned previously, I've been in touch with Twino4u by email about his experience with the Pentax/Ricoh service center in Germany/Austria.

I asked my contact at Pentax USA about whether there is indeed a fix for the K3 now, for the crazy mirror-flapping problem. Initially, he responded telling me he had not yet heard anything from Japan.

However, Twino4u was kind enough to send me his repair documents which indicate that he was getting some type of service/software installation for the Mirror-Flapping issue.

I contacted Pentax USA again with those documents just this morning, and received a reply this afternoon:

Thanks for the followup. I can confirm that U.S. customers who are experiencing the "mirror-flop" issue (evaluation and testing are still ongoing) with their K-3s will be advised to send their cameras into our main service center in Chandler, AZ for adjustment to help resolve the issue.

Thanks again,

Mark Davis
Product Specialist
RICOH IMAGING AMERICAS CORPORATION


Now, I'm not sure that this confirms the software/base firmware fix, or something different. It's vague in its nature, but at least it's somewhat safe to assume that they have an idea of what is causing the problem, if they are confident enough to be able to advise that CRIS (in Arizona) can fix it. I'm not sure if Mr. Davis is willing to give me more details or not, and I've responded asking if he could provide more information, but it's a step in the right direction at this point.

I will keep you all posted as to what I hear back.
06-11-2014, 06:19 PM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Now, I'm not sure that this confirms the software/base firmware fix, or something different. It's vague in its nature, but at least it's somewhat safe to assume that they have an idea of what is causing the problem, if they are confident enough to be able to advise that CRIS (in Arizona) can fix it. I'm not sure if Mr. Davis is willing to give me more details or not, and I've responded asking if he could provide more information, but it's a step in the right direction at this point.
That "(evaluation and testing are still ongoing)" part of the reply is disconcerting. Do they really know what's going on?
06-11-2014, 07:18 PM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Now, I'm not sure that this confirms the software/base firmware fix, or something different. It's vague in its nature, but at least it's somewhat safe to assume that they have an idea of what is causing the problem, if they are confident enough to be able to advise that CRIS (in Arizona) can fix it. I'm not sure if Mr. Davis is willing to give me more details or not, and I've responded asking if he could provide more information, but it's a step in the right direction at this point.

I will keep you all posted as to what I hear back.
QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
That "(evaluation and testing are still ongoing)" part of the reply is disconcerting. Do they really know what's going on?
Bear in mind that Ricoh Imaging USA operates under different consumer protection laws, warranty terms and with a different legal system than most of the rest of the world.

Evaluation can very well mean Ricoh USA must evaluate the fix in terms of negotiating what C.R.I.S. will be paid for the work, what pre-conditions will apply for warranted repairs, how Ricoh USA will make information available and a host of other details, all of which must be done in such a way as to 'ring fence' the liability.

IOW, they probably have to let their lawyers see the document first.

06-11-2014, 11:31 PM   #350
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Thanks for the followup. I can confirm that U.S. customers who are experiencing the "mirror-flop" issue (evaluation and testing are still ongoing) with their K-3s will be advised to send their cameras into our main service center in Chandler, AZ for adjustment to help resolve the issue.

Thanks again,

Mark Davis
Product Specialist
RICOH IMAGING AMERICAS CORPORATION
Sounds like some k3's are close to shutter/curtain sync failure and that is tripping the 're-seat' algorithm under certain shooting conditions pretty much the same as a worn out k5 even though a different root cause.

That woudl also tie in nicely with predominately new k3's doing it then settling down as any 'tightness' in either mechanism would exasperate the condition.

It would also tend to be a 'batch' issue but because Pentax do not use serialized serial numbers (how oxymoronic is that) impossible for users to establish which camera comes from which batch/period.

If true then the following would tend to show the issue

1 continuous shooting (be that in af-c or time lapse (anything that generates heat in the mechanism)
2 tight mechanism
3 low battery
4 weak battery

Would also explain the long delay in a fix as you'd need a deliver a cast iron calibration procedure to hand to 3rd part service arms , and without many 1000's of 'failing' units woudl be impossible to be sure 1st draft woudl be 100% successful.

Last edited by awaldram; 06-11-2014 at 11:37 PM.
06-12-2014, 06:53 AM   #351
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Yup, just got this:

Dear Bruce,

Thank you for contacting RICOH.

We have been informed that there is now a shop adjustment that can be made to help resolve/reduce the reported K-3 "mirror-flop" issue. I recommend you return your camera directly to RICOH Imaging Company at the address listed below for examination.

RICOH Service Department
250 North 54th St.
Chandler, AZ 85226

Be sure to use adequate packing material to prevent damage during shipping, and have the parcel insured. Please include a note describing the problem and give your name, return shipping address, and telephone number. For initial tracking purposes, please note the serial number of your equipment for your own records.

If your camera is within the warranty period, (one year from the original date of purchase), please supply us with a dated proof of purchase, and a request for warranty service. If the RICOH/PENTAX Extended Warranty covers your camera, please supply us with a copy of your Extended Warranty Card. Providing your camera has not been misused or abused and the problem is due to a manufacturer's defect, your camera will be repaired and returned to you without charge.

If your warranty period has expired, or if the repair is not covered under the terms of this warranty, we will examine your camera and supply you with a written estimate (this estimate is provided at no charge). Upon approval (and payment in full) of the estimate, we will proceed with the repair. Approvals may be given by phone with a Visa, MasterCard, or Discover. If you decide against the repair estimate, your camera will be returned to you for a $12 shipping and handling charge.

Repair times will vary depending on the time of year.


If you are in need of further assistance, please respond to this email or call our technical support center at 800-877-0155.

Sincerely,
Randall S.
RICOH IMAGING AMERICAS CORPORATION
PHONE: 800.234.0276 / 800.877.0155
06-12-2014, 07:03 AM   #352
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repairs

Hi,

What is the thought on the repair?
Will the repair compromise the water resistance of the camera?

If the repair can potentially compromise the WR.
Can cameras be replaced instead of repaired?

At what point can a new buyer be assured that the camera that they are purchasing has had
this problem rectified prior to a new K-3 purchase?

I appreciate your thoughts,

Brian
06-12-2014, 07:55 AM - 1 Like   #353
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Radman:

My thought on the repair is that I'd love to confirm it... but unfortunately, I don't have a K3 for testing anymore.

I don't like that the email Bruce received indicates that it would "resolve/reduce" the problem - as opposed to just RESOLVE it completely.

I'm also concerned that the email I received said testing is still ongoing. I'm glad they are working on it, but the fact a real fix is taking so long makes me wonder if the K3 has some fatal flaw that just cannot be fixed completely. Admittedly though, I've lost a bit of faith because of all the time that's passed and all the back and forth I personally went through, so I'm going to demand a little more proof than probably the next person.

This seems to be positive progress and movement in the right direction, but because these emails are so vague, and because Pentax isn't replying to the community, rather individual owners one at a time, I'm left feeling less than satisfied that the issue is gone for good.


Last edited by DRabbit; 06-12-2014 at 08:03 AM.
06-12-2014, 08:41 AM   #354
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QuoteOriginally posted by radman Quote
Hi,

What is the thought on the repair?
Will the repair compromise the water resistance of the camera?

If the repair can potentially compromise the WR.
Can cameras be replaced instead of repaired?

At what point can a new buyer be assured that the camera that they are purchasing has had
this problem rectified prior to a new K-3 purchase?

I appreciate your thoughts,

Brian
It looks like its a FoF (Fix on Fail) so buying a new k3 may or may not flop , I have no idea of stock level or turnover of any shop your likely to be using or even if Pentax elect to do any remedial action at manufacture so really its hobsons choice.

products can always be replaced during the doa period but that will vary depending on country and retailer.

Though any 'opening' of the camera may compromise WR it also true that it may 'fix' any WR issues your camera has prior to service.

Your camera will still have it full remaining warranty after service and providing your service provider is good will in most cases be better than the 'average' new camera having be uniquely tested for faults.
06-12-2014, 10:29 AM   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
makes me wonder if the K3 has some fatal flaw that just cannot be fixed completely.
Obviously not, since most that had the issue just kept using the device after it stopped.

Is Pentax doomed?
06-12-2014, 12:26 PM   #356
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Add me to the list.

Details:

Battery well charged. Single shot. AV. 15mm Limited. Temperature around 22C. 1.02 firmware. Serial number 4850672.
06-12-2014, 09:38 PM   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by WaveDancer Quote
Interesting here to note that some of the forum members try to declare this (in my opinion serious) lack of reliability into the corner of "random" issues and triviality. This seems to be a typical trait of Ricoh/Pentax and there hardcore believers. I consider such attitude at least as questionable.
I've had two episodes with one lens on one body, neither were a real problem. There are some shooters who run into the problem regularly, and it seems there is a fix that will be available in a short while. Good.

It is an electronic device with a computer. Every device of all kinds that I've ever used have had some issue of some kind. The K-3 has been one of the more reliable devices that I've used, even with this problem.

If this is the biggest issue with the K-3, and can be sorted out by some software upgrade, I'd say that it is a minor problem. Some people haven't been able to use the body for what they want, but for the majority it either doesn't happen or is a rare event.

I suspect that the investigation to find the cause and the attempts to fix it will result in a bunch of stability problem fixes that otherwise would not have come to light.

---------- Post added 06-12-14 at 09:51 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Radman:

My thought on the repair is that I'd love to confirm it... but unfortunately, I don't have a K3 for testing anymore.

I don't like that the email Bruce received indicates that it would "resolve/reduce" the problem - as opposed to just RESOLVE it completely.

I'm also concerned that the email I received said testing is still ongoing. I'm glad they are working on it, but the fact a real fix is taking so long makes me wonder if the K3 has some fatal flaw that just cannot be fixed completely. Admittedly though, I've lost a bit of faith because of all the time that's passed and all the back and forth I personally went through, so I'm going to demand a little more proof than probably the next person.

This seems to be positive progress and movement in the right direction, but because these emails are so vague, and because Pentax isn't replying to the community, rather individual owners one at a time, I'm left feeling less than satisfied that the issue is gone for good.
From their standpoint, there are a number of things that they are trying to determine. First, what is causing the problem. Second is to fix it. Can it be fixed with a firmware upgrade, or does it need to be fixed in a shop, or some major components replaced, or like Nikon D600 a design problem. There probably isn't one cause, or even one problem, but the same symptoms showing up caused by different things. Yours was a problem with interval shooting, mine is one lens rarely and randomly. Probably different causes and different solutions. Maybe the fix makes interval shooting reliable but doesn't fix some of the more rare and random events, who knows. Or the other way.

We shall see how it turns out. I had a stain on my K-5, the early ones had an expensive fix swapping the sensor. Mine was an early body bought late, and by then the fix seemed to be much less complicated once they figured out how to do it. I suspect the same will happen here as the fixes get applied.
06-13-2014, 05:42 AM   #358
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When did the K-3 originally go on sale?
06-13-2014, 06:43 AM   #359
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06-13-2014, 07:21 AM   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
November 2013
Then they should be fixing all of them that get sent in for this problem.

The whole proof of purchase requirement seems like a "Well, if you lost your receipt, your out of luck" thing.

I wonder if that is really necessary since its obvious that if you have one it was bought less than a year ago..
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