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02-10-2015, 10:59 AM   #676
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
well my misbehaving K-3 arrived at Precision on Friday February 6th and it is being shipped out today Monday Feb 9th -- either they are incredibly fast or they didn't "find" anything wrong and are shipping it right back. I should get it in two days. I will report as to whether or not they fixed it.
So here is a synopsis of their (very quick turn-around btw) repair:

<begin quote>
  • A complete repair and return all functions to factory specs.
  • Cleaned Image Sensor.
  • Autofocus test, check, recalibration and realignment.
  • Firmware download: corrections and adjustments; address values measured and adjusted.
  • Complete cleaning (internal-external)
<end quote>

I will let you know if the K-3 is now working properly once I get some time to shoot with it.

Michael

02-10-2015, 11:01 AM   #677
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Let us know if timelapse works...

Thanks!
02-10-2015, 12:06 PM   #678
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
So here is a synopsis of their (very quick turn-around btw) repair:

<begin quote>
  • A complete repair and return all functions to factory specs.
  • Cleaned Image Sensor.
  • Autofocus test, check, recalibration and realignment.
  • Firmware download: corrections and adjustments; address values measured and adjusted.
  • Complete cleaning (internal-external)
<end quote>

I will let you know if the K-3 is now working properly once I get some time to shoot with it.

Michael
You guys are making me want to do some interval shooting just to make sure my camera is truly trouble free


Steve
02-10-2015, 12:48 PM   #679
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QuoteOriginally posted by SyncGuy Quote
Bah... No need to measure and track those... Just stick on a thermometer and observe the temperature.. LoL!
That should reveal a thing or two...
It might indeed be related to the temperature. It was really cold when it happened to me. That could explain why they have issues reproducing the issue in lab

02-10-2015, 02:02 PM   #680
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cyril_K5 Quote
It might indeed be related to the temperature. It was really cold when it happened to me. That could explain why they have issues reproducing the issue in lab
No. My one-time flapping incident early last year was at mild temp (70's) and I was not using interval.
02-10-2015, 02:16 PM   #681
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I think pretty much all of the times it did the flap thing the temp was on the cool side. Which is why I was always suspicious (at least with my system) with the batteries.

YMMV

Michael
02-10-2015, 02:23 PM   #682
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Mine has still only happened once, it the spring when it was cool. My shutter count is now 25,119.
02-10-2015, 04:05 PM   #683
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
So here is a synopsis of their (very quick turn-around btw) repair:

<begin quote>
  • A complete repair and return all functions to factory specs.
  • Cleaned Image Sensor.
  • Autofocus test, check, recalibration and realignment.
  • Firmware download: corrections and adjustments; address values measured and adjusted.
  • Complete cleaning (internal-external)
<end quote>

I will let you know if the K-3 is now working properly once I get some time to shoot with it.

Michael
My experience with C.R.Kennedy in Melbourne was not quite so good. This is the extent of THEIR service report:

"Currently only firmware 1.11 is available to remedy the mirror issue"

Thats it, they did nothing and basically told me on the phone there is no real fix for the problem.

John.

02-11-2015, 07:08 AM   #684
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jhmos, I believe there's a relatively simple explanation for the manufacturing defect which has troubled me as well. If I'm correct, then so are they: There's no real 'fix' for the problem because it is a design flaw deep within the circuitry of the camera.

Pentax/Ricoh modified this camera (K3) extensively during the design phase, adding many new wonderful features. What they did NOT do was adequately compensate for the additional current draw and resulting voltage drop to the circuit board. There is a window or voltage range in which the electronic components will behave normally. Outside that range, results will be unpredictable/frustrating. Well designed electronic devices have a voltage regulator that more or less guarantees the supplied voltage remains within the desired window/range. In this instance, that window was either too narrow or improperly set to allow for variables such as disparate batteries (rechargeable vs. zinc battery voltages, temperature, etc.). The runaway mirror problem damages the camera by tearing up the baffle while rapidly flopping. Crumbs from the damage will land on the K3 sensor, further degrading its performance. This is a deep seated manufacturing flaw for which the company has never fully accepted/acknowledged responsibility. It's erratic because the conditions leading to it are variable. The camera also (for the same reason and as erratically) sometimes misses a shot or does not record video/pics to one of the two memory cards. The camera is, therefore, unreliable. Ricoh should remedy this for ALL purchasers of the K3 regardless of their reticence to send off their gear/camera to some distant repair shop only to receive a SOP, excuses, or mollification. Ricoh sold EVERYONE who purchased a K3 a lemon, regardless of whether they actually ran into one of the set of conditions which cause the camera to fail or not. Not everyone who purchased a Corvair died. That doesn't mean the car was safe. Ricoh sold a lawn mower that cuts grass MOST of the time.

Purchasers might notice battery life on the K3 is considerably shorter than the K5. The reason (and consistent with the above reasoning) is simple enough: Its circuitry draws/requires MORE power!
-amicuscuria.com/wordpress-

Last edited by pinbalwyz; 02-11-2015 at 07:19 AM. Reason: additional thoughts
02-11-2015, 11:33 AM - 1 Like   #685
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Pentax is doomed.

No but seriously, that might be a possible explanation, but you have to back it up with some evidence, measures and a procedure where you can reproduce the issue.

Without more evidence it remains a hypothesis and respectfully, the way it's written, sounds like a conspiracy theory for a cover-up by Ricoh.

I think that if there was any serious evidence, lawyers would have been engaged in a class action already.

It might come later, I'm not saying it won't.

In the meantime I will use my lawnmower to cut the grass and my K-3 for shooting beautiful pictures, 99.99% of the time.
02-11-2015, 11:42 AM   #686
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To pinbalwyz:

Before repairs my K-3 really felt unreliable in a very erratic way, starting with missing the occasional exposure. But after repairs it feels quite different, doing what it's expected to. I don't think all the K-3:s are flawed. I certainly hope not.
02-12-2015, 10:42 AM   #687
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinbalwyz Quote
jhmos, I believe there's a relatively simple explanation for the manufacturing defect which has troubled me as well. If I'm correct, then so are they: There's no real 'fix' for the problem because it is a design flaw deep within the circuitry of the camera.

Pentax/Ricoh modified this camera (K3) extensively during the design phase, adding many new wonderful features. What they did NOT do was adequately compensate for the additional current draw and resulting voltage drop to the circuit board. There is a window or voltage range in which the electronic components will behave normally. Outside that range, results will be unpredictable/frustrating. Well designed electronic devices have a voltage regulator that more or less guarantees the supplied voltage remains within the desired window/range. In this instance, that window was either too narrow or improperly set to allow for variables such as disparate batteries (rechargeable vs. zinc battery voltages, temperature, etc.). The runaway mirror problem damages the camera by tearing up the baffle while rapidly flopping. Crumbs from the damage will land on the K3 sensor, further degrading its performance. This is a deep seated manufacturing flaw for which the company has never fully accepted/acknowledged responsibility. It's erratic because the conditions leading to it are variable. The camera also (for the same reason and as erratically) sometimes misses a shot or does not record video/pics to one of the two memory cards. The camera is, therefore, unreliable. Ricoh should remedy this for ALL purchasers of the K3 regardless of their reticence to send off their gear/camera to some distant repair shop only to receive a SOP, excuses, or mollification. Ricoh sold EVERYONE who purchased a K3 a lemon, regardless of whether they actually ran into one of the set of conditions which cause the camera to fail or not. Not everyone who purchased a Corvair died. That doesn't mean the car was safe. Ricoh sold a lawn mower that cuts grass MOST of the time.

Purchasers might notice battery life on the K3 is considerably shorter than the K5. The reason (and consistent with the above reasoning) is simple enough: Its circuitry draws/requires MORE power!
-amicuscuria.com/wordpress-
You are essentially correct. The problem is most certainly a voltage anomaly in the circuit that controls the mirror. I spoke with a technician at CRIS when they had the repair responsibility. That particular circuit has a separate piece of firmware that cannot be altered by the user. He confirmed that it's a simple matter for the repair facility to upgrade that separate firmware so that the voltage to the mirror control is within narrower bounds. Ricoh has provided this special firmware update fix to the repair facility, and it does correct the mirror flutter problem. I had the fix applied by CRIS in June of last year, and I've been using my K3 with zero problems since then. The fix works; if the problem develops and your camera is still under warranty, don't hesitate to get it fixed. It's simple, it works, and doesn't take long. I had a backup K5 to use while waiting, and it was only a couple of days. If the problem develops beyond your warranty period, I'd still pressure Ricoh to fix it for free - it's a manufacturing defect, and they should stand behind their product - very bad PR if they don't.

John

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Last edited by PALADIN85020; 02-12-2015 at 10:59 AM.
02-13-2015, 04:42 AM   #688
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Hi, i am considering to buy either a K-3 or a K-S2 to replace my K200d. So i was gathering some information and came across this known K-3 issue. I have skimmed this thread but there's one thing that isn't clear for me.

I got that the crazy mirror behaviour is pretty random in occurrence and difficult to reproduce in order to trace back its cause. But...is it dangerous for the camera in some way ? Maybe causing mechanical damage to the screen or any other part of the camera ?

I suppose that if the camera is left alone to flip the screen like crazy until the battery is drained this is not healthy. But is it potentially damaging if it occurs randomly and one just immediately removes the battery and plug in a new one ?

Thanks in advance
02-13-2015, 04:48 AM   #689
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Who knows. It can't be that good but I have never heard of anyone having a mechanical problem following an occurence of the runaway mirror.

Plus it would seem that the latest firmware mitigates the problem. Finally if ever it happens, one should send the camera for repair.
02-13-2015, 01:38 PM   #690
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QuoteOriginally posted by simon_199 Quote
I got that the crazy mirror behaviour is pretty random in occurrence and difficult to reproduce in order to trace back its cause. But...is it dangerous for the camera in some way ?
If I understand correctly, with the latest firmware, the camera will detect the condition very quickly and perform a reset. If you were in the middle of shooting a volley of shots, you might loose a few, and your shooting will be interrupted for a second or so, but I don't think there's any danger to the camera itself, since the mirror will only flap a few times before reset. I think this happened to me once since I got the K-3 (a little over 3k actuations). Basically the camera stopped in the middle of a voley (at continuous medium), vibrated a little, performed a kind of reset, and I got one corrupted JPG and some not taken shots. I don't think it's something to worry about much, personally, on what is otherwise a rugged, reliable camera...
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