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04-13-2015, 09:28 PM   #766
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QuoteOriginally posted by PALADIN85020 Quote
I'm not an engineer, but I was told by a confidential but very credible source that occasional out-of-bounds voltage fluctuations in the mirror circuit were causing the mirror flutter. This was fixed by applying a software upgrade (provided by the factory) to a specific control circuit in my camera by the former repair center in Chandler, Arizona. This keeps the mirror control voltage within specific bounds. This is NOT the user-applicable software upgrade, but can only be applied by an authorized repair station to that particular circuit. This was done to my K-3 in June, 2014 and I have had NO further incidents of mirror flap. Previously, from Nov. of 2013 to June of 2014, I had two flapping incidents. Since the software fix, I have had zero problems with my K-3, and I use it constantly. So I think your assertion that this "...is not something which software can ever fix..." is at variance with the facts. Again, my apologies for not being a technical guru - I'm just reporting my experience with this problem.

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QuoteOriginally posted by Krusty Surfer Quote
GREAT WORK DEAR WATSON!!!

will Pentax hear you though and fix that mess? a few unhappy k-3 owners it seems could benefit from your knowledge!
thanks for all your hard work on this issue
See above. The fix has been available for some time now, though it is now provided by the Ricon/Pentax service at Precision in Connecticut. Ricoh/Pentax will provide this as a warranty repair service. The service is also available for out-of-warranty cameras, but for a fee.


Steve

04-14-2015, 09:00 AM - 2 Likes   #767
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
See above. The fix has been available for some time now, though it is now provided by the Ricon/Pentax service at Precision in Connecticut. Ricoh/Pentax will provide this as a warranty repair service. The service is also available for out-of-warranty cameras, but for a fee.


Steve
out-of-warranty cameras should be fixed free as its not fit for purpose when this happens,
after all Pentax knows about the fault,


and it IS a manufacturing or design fault, nothing to do with customers warranty but a lot to do with Pentax testing,
the point that relay gets up my nose is that PENTAX KNOW ABOUT THE PROBLEM.


it saves Pentax a fortune not having to call all the cameras back in that batch and fix them properly which is what should have happened


Having said all that,


I'm just about to order the prestige gunmetal edition k3


because I love the camera.



Tom G
04-14-2015, 10:53 AM   #768
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This happened to me taking a timelapse two weeks ago. Will send it in relatively soon for repairs, though I don't want to part with it. Shows the overall quality of the camera, it's going to be unfortunate to not have it around!
04-14-2015, 01:18 PM - 1 Like   #769
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom777 Quote
out-of-warranty cameras should be fixed free as its not fit for purpose when this happens,
after all Pentax knows about the fault,
That assertion only holds water if you are in Britian (which you are) and if you can define purpose over the full life-time of the product (hire a good solicitor). On this side of the Atlantic, the warranty is a contract that expires.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tom777 Quote
that PENTAX KNOW ABOUT THE PROBLEM.
...and Ricoh/Pentax fixed the problem once the issue had been characterized. New reports have been incredibly rare on this site in the last 6 months. The idea that Ricoh continued to make cameras with a prevalent known defect for month after month is judgement without evidence. To be honest with you, compared to other camera issues that have been reported on this site over the years, the K-3 has shown itself to be one of the more robust products that Pentax has offered since 2007 when I first became active here.

Once again, I would point to the industry-wide rate of serious defect in dSLR cameras at between 4% and 6% (according to Consumer Reports as of the date of this post).* (Nikon holds the dubious honor of the 6% failure rate.) I consider that rate to be unacceptably high, but apparently the manufacturers have other ideas.


Steve

* Computers and other consumer electronics have similar reliability issues.


Last edited by stevebrot; 04-14-2015 at 01:39 PM.
04-15-2015, 08:34 AM   #770
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I'm left wondering whether those defining what Pentax/Ricoh should do have even asked them if they would.?

I have had a number of out of warranty repairs done FoC by Pentax UK all under the 6 year 'design defect' warranty (1979 sale of goods act) that is applicable in the UK, Pentax have acted with honesty and integrity whenever I've approached them or their agents, Though occasianl 'frank' discussion has been required with ton of 'evidence'.
Uk residents wanting to claim under this should read up as they are required to 'prove' the case not the manufacturer so some research and work will be required.

This will get you started The six-year warranty right that shops don't tell customers about | Daily Mail Online



As for mirror flop that woudl be a very difficult one to prove as cameras showing the error as described in this thread woudl easily be expected to exhibit the failure within the 2 year manufacturer warranty. And one of the symptom of a worn out mirror box is mirror flop / lockup.

Obviously a worn out mirror box woudl not be repaired FoC outside manufacturers warranty.

So I think to get Pentax/Ricoh to repair FoC you woudl need a low shutter count camera and evidence that your problem was the one hear (out of bound ) not worn components, Luckily FW 1.11 gives uses a reasonable proof as to not have seen the symptoms within the 2 year warranty.

Of cause outside UK where people get their cameras Cheaper they also don't get consumer protection either.
04-15-2015, 09:25 AM   #771
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I just had the mirror flap issue for the first time on my K3, with under 3000 actuations. DA 35mm AL in AF mode, battery grip fitted, both batteries 95% charged. Flapped repeatedly for about a second, very rapidly, then stopped. After that, couldn't focus, image in viewfinder looked out of focus all over no matter how I adjusted lens, and when I took a test shot, it was black except for the upper 1/5th of the frame. Took the lens off, flipped the mirror a couple of times manually (gently), refitted lens and all been ok since I'm not particularly worried, but would be concerned if it kept happening. I *think* I'm out of warranty by now...
04-15-2015, 01:03 PM   #772
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm not particularly worried, but would be concerned if it kept happening.
I would be very concerned, particularly at such a low shutter count*. What you describe (mirror akimbo post flap) sounds more like a failure case. If you can take advantage of your British law, you may want to do so.


Steve

* I have only had my K-3 for about a year and am just under 10K actuations...
04-15-2015, 04:19 PM   #773
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I would be very concerned, particularly at such a low shutter count*. What you describe (mirror akimbo post flap) sounds more like a failure case. If you can take advantage of your British law, you may want to do so.


Steve

* I have only had my K-3 for about a year and am just under 10K actuations...
Well, it's only happened once. I now have to weigh up whether it's worth sending it in now (and being without my camera for however long), or waiting to see if the problem recurs. I'm thinking for now, I'll wait and see.

Yeah, low actuations on mine, I know. It was a busy year in other areas... I'm trying to make up for it now

04-16-2015, 08:05 AM   #774
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Mirror Flop occurred for the first time on my K-3 on 4/13/2015. I quickly shut the camera off, and then proceeded to unscrew the battery grip so as to get both batteries disconnected. Mirror flop discontinued about halfway through me getting the grip off. Turned the camera on and proceeded to take pictures without further issue.

Serial Number: 4920536

Shutter count was under 5000 at the time.

Firmware is: Ver. 1.00.00.02

Purchase date: November 2014 (B&H)

Manf. Date: 12/17/2013

Batteries: 1 Wasabi in the grip and 1 Wasabi in the body. Batteries had been in use for around 200 images prior to the flopping.

Program Mode: Manual (Continuous Shooting - High)

I don't really want to part with the camera, but if they can fix it, it would make sense to send it in...
04-16-2015, 08:52 AM   #775
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I just had the mirror flap issue for the first time on my K3, with under 3000 actuations. DA 35mm AL in AF mode, battery grip fitted, both batteries 95% charged. Flapped repeatedly for about a second, very rapidly, then stopped. After that, couldn't focus, image in viewfinder looked out of focus all over no matter how I adjusted lens, and when I took a test shot, it was black except for the upper 1/5th of the frame. Took the lens off, flipped the mirror a couple of times manually (gently), refitted lens and all been ok since I'm not particularly worried, but would be concerned if it kept happening. I *think* I'm out of warranty by now...
Wasn't the K3 under a 2 years warranty ? If it was, you're still in.
04-16-2015, 05:04 PM   #776
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Well, I am delighted to say my K-3 is back from Precision in short order and looking good!

4/1/15 Shipped camera for mirror overrun warranty repair to Precision Camera
Enclosed a printed copy of pdf file order receipt from B&H with hand-written notation identifying the mirror over-run problem.
Tracking indicates delivery on 4/6/15
No acknowledgement of receipt or communication of any sort from Precision. Bit of anxiety here.
Back to me on 4/16/15, with printed notation repair was complete on 4/9. This is what it said:

A complete repair and return all functions to factory specs.
Cleaned image sensor
Auto focus test, check, recalibration and realignment
Firmware download: corrections and adjustments; address values measured and adjusted
Complete cleaning (internal - external) and optical system.

(and the user 1 2 and 3 settings were still as I had set them) No charge. Nice!
04-17-2015, 03:46 PM   #777
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Upgraded my firmware, and promptly had mine flap not long after for about the 3rd or 4th time. Big difference was instead of a 3 or 4 second flap, this was about a half second's worth.
04-18-2015, 08:54 AM   #778
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I experienced my first mirror flap just now camera is made in november last year and I bought it just after christmas.

I'm running the firmware v1.11 I think (the one that addresses this issue).

I must admit I attached a battery grip yesterday... not sure if it's the two batteries conflicting with each other causing the drop in voltage.

I'll try changing the settings to "use camera battery first" rather than grip.

I hope this changes it.

that said, my experience with it was as follows:

I'm messing around with double exposures and I take the first picture. I suddenly hear a machinegun rattle for less than a second and my camera is back running normally after. Only difference is that any change I've made say amount of shots in the multiple exposure is reset back to whatever I had set as the norm.

so, if it's only the occasional machinegun burst, I suppose I can live with it. Nevertheless I don't like it.
04-18-2015, 06:45 PM   #779
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Sorry to hear ^^, CNunez... Yours is so new I'm very surprised it has the vulnerability. Seems a good idea to send it in for in-warranty service. Even if it's "bearable" like mine, that removes one possible irritation, and is something a buyer should ask about if you sell it on later, and could affect the sale.

My mirror flap occurred last July on firmware 1.10 about a month before updating to the 1.11 firmware... I have no battery grip so that wasn't a factor, and wasn't using LV or continuous shutter, just the basic simple configuration. It only happened that once, but I figured it needed to go in just to get it taken care of, get the fix done before the end of my 12-mo warranty on 5/18/2015.

The discussions here have been very informative and useful.
04-19-2015, 07:47 AM   #780
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dougg Quote
Sorry to hear ^^, CNunez... Yours is so new I'm very surprised it has the vulnerability. Seems a good idea to send it in for in-warranty service. Even if it's "bearable" like mine, that removes one possible irritation, and is something a buyer should ask about if you sell it on later, and could affect the sale.

My mirror flap occurred last July on firmware 1.10 about a month before updating to the 1.11 firmware... I have no battery grip so that wasn't a factor, and wasn't using LV or continuous shutter, just the basic simple configuration. It only happened that once, but I figured it needed to go in just to get it taken care of, get the fix done before the end of my 12-mo warranty on 5/18/2015.

The discussions here have been very informative and useful.
yeah... I thought my camera was perfect. I've taken lots of different shots. But this happened only as soon as I added the grip I really want a grip, because I'm taking portraits of my sister next month and a grip just makes that so much easier. I will see if it happens again during different settings.


I live in the UK, I have no idea how making a claim with Pentax works. It's only 4 months old so it's well within warranty. It actually made me consider changing system, as pathetic as that sounds. But that's what it feels like when something you naively think is flawless or near perfect fails like this.

I just hope that when the K3II comes out and the FF later, that this issue won't happen and we can upgrade without fear of spending money on a system that can cause this.

Like I said earlier, it doesn't bother me too much, I'll get over it. However if/when I start doing timelapse, an error like that will kill an entire session or cut it short ruining the take. and timelapses taking multiple hours this is critical.
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