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10-15-2015, 10:50 AM - 1 Like   #841
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arjay Bee Quote
This issue is now largely sidestepped by the limitation on the error made by recent firmware upgrades. I have had it a couple of times but recognise it immediately and quickly move beyond the issue by camera restart or battery ejection with no real loss of picture taking opportunity.
QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
With 1.21 it may still happen, but it will be stopped in its tracks almost instantly.
I'm a big fan of the K-3 and have many photos published with it, but several weeks ago I was working on getting footage for a television commercial. For much of the week I was up before dawn to get a sunrise time-lapse sequences at a number of locations throughout the state. The camera worked great most of the time (using the intervalometer for some shots and the time-lapse movie mode for others), but one time while recording a 4k time-lapse movie the camera made a quick sequence of worrying sounds–like the beginning of a mirror flop–and then just froze. I had to pull the battery to reset and I lost that sequence. Thankfully I was there and paying attention and could quickly reset the camera before I lost the light and the moment that I was trying to capture.

That happened mid-week and the rest of the week I was worried that it would happen again. For the rest of the week I crossed my fingers while recording a time lapse, hoping that the camera wouldn't crap out at the absolute worst time and ruin a shot that I had spent a lot of time planning and might not have time/budget to re-do.

We are talking about making more commercials and some of the shots might involve heavy construction equipment. I face the real possibility of choreographing a construction crane to do something and then have to tell them to do it again because my camera malfunctioned. Or worse yet lose what is literally a once in a lifetime shot like the topping off of a building. I now have to consider bringing and setting up two cameras on two tripods for each shot that I do.

Not being able to trust your gear really sucks.

10-15-2015, 11:00 AM   #842
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Not being able to trust your gear really sucks.
Indeed. This is why every single pro I've ever seen or heard has spare bodies. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, doesn't matter the brand. *They* don't trust their gear absolutely, either. If the shoot is really important, or once in a lifetime, or really expensive to set up, use two cameras at the same time.
10-15-2015, 11:37 AM   #843
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I'm a big fan of the K-3 and have many photos published with it, but several weeks ago I was working on getting footage for a television commercial. For much of the week I was up before dawn to get a sunrise time-lapse sequences at a number of locations throughout the state. The camera worked great most of the time (using the intervalometer for some shots and the time-lapse movie mode for others), but one time while recording a 4k time-lapse movie the camera made a quick sequence of worrying sounds–like the beginning of a mirror flop–and then just froze. I had to pull the battery to reset and I lost that sequence. Thankfully I was there and paying attention and could quickly reset the camera before I lost the light and the moment that I was trying to capture.

That happened mid-week and the rest of the week I was worried that it would happen again. For the rest of the week I crossed my fingers while recording a time lapse, hoping that the camera wouldn't crap out at the absolute worst time and ruin a shot that I had spent a lot of time planning and might not have time/budget to re-do.

We are talking about making more commercials and some of the shots might involve heavy construction equipment. I face the real possibility of choreographing a construction crane to do something and then have to tell them to do it again because my camera malfunctioned. Or worse yet lose what is literally a once in a lifetime shot like the topping off of a building. I now have to consider bringing and setting up two cameras on two tripods for each shot that I do.

Not being able to trust your gear really sucks.


K3II is virtually the same camera and no worries so far of 98% shot reliability... If I were doing shot critical work like you are I'd shoot the K3II right now. (I do anyway for the Pixel Shift feature, but I am planning to add another K3 for wedding work where if the thing turds up, I can in/out the battery and shoot again.)
10-20-2015, 10:33 PM   #844
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QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
First, what do you care what other photographers think? And, of course, *none* of those other photographers have ever had issues with their cameras. Nothing like oil spots on the sensor, or using a toxic chemical on a rubber viewfinder, or anything like that which is much worse than a flapping shutter. Oh, wait.

You're right, I don't care what others think...I just don't want to give a friend reason to believe or mouth off their brand of camera to be 'superior.' Especially when witnessing something like this mirror flop malfunction. What I'm trying to say is that I know that Sh*t happens to all, none are exempt, but it sucks to be you during that period of time. Like Microsoft Windows crashing on Bill Gates during the next version of Windows presentation, or an Apple malfunction during an Apple presentation.

All that aside, I updated the firmware, and so far have not experienced this issue...

10-21-2015, 05:27 AM   #845
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QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
Indeed. This is why every single pro I've ever seen or heard has spare bodies. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, doesn't matter the brand. *They* don't trust their gear absolutely, either. If the shoot is really important, or once in a lifetime, or really expensive to set up, use two cameras at the same time.
Yup. I always bring 2 cameras to every shoot and usually am shooting with the second camera while the first camera does the time lapse. But the mirror flopping problem has happened frequently enough for me (maybe 4-5 times in the past year) that even with two cameras on tripods I'd be wary. The K-5, K20d, and K-01 (along with a K-x and K-m) have been much more reliable in this regard.

Also, the problem with shooting an in-camera time-lapse with the K-3 is that if the mirror flops you lose everything; there are no intermediate files to try to salvage.

I've also filled cards with RAW files using the in-camera intervalometer and then built the time lapse on the computer, but I've noticed a couple of things with my K-3:
- The exposure is not rock solid. Random frames will be 1/3 over- or under-exposed. I've had some frame complete white.
- The framing is not rock solid. I've had minor shifts in the framing that are a PITA to fix.

TL;DR - at this point I would not recommend the K-3/K-3ii to anyone wanting to do time lapse photography. I've been doing this for years, and other cameras are just more reliable.
10-21-2015, 06:22 AM   #846
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With Pentax lack of Pro services I can't understand why anyone making a living from their cameras would be shooting Pentax.

Your using Canon or Nikon and a body fails its possible to have a replacement on site inside a few hours providing you have appropriate cover
If you shooting Pentax you'll be lucky to see it in six weeks

This isn't a dig at Pentax just they exclusively target consumers and have their warranty/service schedule cut accordingly to suit.
I'd expect Pro to value their livelihood and choose their solutions accordingly.
10-21-2015, 08:53 AM   #847
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
With Pentax lack of Pro services I can't understand why anyone making a living from their cameras would be shooting Pentax.

Your using Canon or Nikon and a body fails its possible to have a replacement on site inside a few hours providing you have appropriate cover
If you shooting Pentax you'll be lucky to see it in six weeks

This isn't a dig at Pentax just they exclusively target consumers and have their warranty/service schedule cut accordingly to suit.
I'd expect Pro to value their livelihood and choose their solutions accordingly.
Maybe, but the Pentax bodies are cheaper, at least the non-FF ones are, for the comparative quality (let's not debate this here as I appreciate I'm in danger of going off topic with this comment). So a 'pro' may chose to pay for > 1 bodies for the equivalent cost of the Pro warranty service, as I'd guess this service is not cheap. There are also professionals using Sony cameras. What are their replacement/service options ? I guess my point is that this argument is constantly changing. Agreed top professionals will need all the Pro support they can get and Pentax/Ricoh does not offer this, but the line gets a little grey as you slide down the pro-level via semi-pro and onwards.

If the new FF is targeted at professionals then we would expect, would we not, a step up in the local service options ? Also, a little more openness from Pentax/Ricoh would be appreciated (= demanded from professionals). This mirror flap started as an concern; moved to an irritation and now has mostly disappeared with the recently firmware upgrades. Yes, it got fixed, but I suspect professionals would not have been particularly happy with Pentax/Ricoh's reluctance to comment. Maybe the release of the new FF and the success of the 645Z will see a gradual/rapid improvement. Maybe ...
10-21-2015, 10:39 AM   #848
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
With Pentax lack of Pro services I can't understand why anyone making a living from their cameras would be shooting Pentax.

Your using Canon or Nikon and a body fails its possible to have a replacement on site inside a few hours providing you have appropriate cover
If you shooting Pentax you'll be lucky to see it in six weeks

This isn't a dig at Pentax just they exclusively target consumers and have their warranty/service schedule cut accordingly to suit.
I'd expect Pro to value their livelihood and choose their solutions accordingly.
The widespread availability of overnight shipping for purchase and rental of gear has reduced the need for pro services I think. If you are doing a Sports Illustrated swimsuit photo shoot on Kiribati, then yes I think having pro services as backup is wise, but even then schedules are so tight that getting replacement gear is going to throw the whole shoot off. I'd imagine that they bring backups of everything (cameras, lenses, lights, bikinis, etc...) for a shot like that. Canon and others also provide on site support at big sporting events, so that's cool.

And, as Barry suggested, there is a sliding scale at work here. I'm a semi-pro so the convenience and cost of Pro services is not necessary. I have backup bodies, overlapping focal lengths, and so on. When my K-3 was in the shop last winter I used the K-5.

10-27-2015, 08:27 PM   #849
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QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
Indeed. This is why every single pro I've ever seen or heard has spare bodies. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, doesn't matter the brand. *They* don't trust their gear absolutely, either. If the shoot is really important, or once in a lifetime, or really expensive to set up, use two cameras at the same time.
My K3 locked solid during the exchanging of the rings, I had another camera by my side but there's no option to get them to re-run that little moment, that's what he's talking about when he mentions trusting your camera. The K5IIs I trust, it has never locked up, gone into rapid mirror fire or anything else, the K3 however has let me down on numerous occasions, it is difficult to trust.
10-27-2015, 11:11 PM   #850
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QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
My K3 locked solid during the exchanging of the rings... the K3 however has let me down on numerous occasions, it is difficult to trust.
Sounds like you should just sell it, then. It obviously doesn't meet your needs. Buy more second hand K5s, if they appear to do better for you. For many folks (myself included), the K3 is fine, but I don't have your requirements.
10-27-2015, 11:55 PM   #851
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QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
Sounds like you should just sell it, then. It obviously doesn't meet your needs. Buy more second hand K5s, if they appear to do better for you. For many folks (myself included), the K3 is fine, but I don't have your requirements.
The K5IIs is good for a lot of things but I need the buffer depth, res, speed and dual cards so currently there is nothing that I am willing upgrade to as I've heard way too many problems associated with the K3II. One hopes the FF will be a reliable body from the get go. I doubt it would be worth selling my K3 with almost 150k shutter clicks too plus I would be honest that it was sporadically unreliable, maybe you need a spare?
11-29-2015, 07:20 AM   #852
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machine gun mirror

2 times in a week with different batteries and perfect weather
11-29-2015, 12:25 PM   #853
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QuoteOriginally posted by Brivers Quote
2 times in a week with different batteries and perfect weather
Sorry to be obvious, but is your firmware up to date? If updated, do you have return rights or warranty?
11-29-2015, 04:10 PM   #854
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QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
it is difficult to trust
Yes, it's a unpleasant feeling.

You only need something bad to happen once or twice at a critical moment (especially due to some camera flaw, not any error of your own), and then it's hard to trust the camera for important work anymore. You are always 'walking on eggshells' from that point forward.

Mirror-flap problems haven't troubled me with the K-3, but there is a weird total 'drop the battery, restart needed' camera lockup that happens from time to time after heavy use when I press the play button to review my shots. It's a background worry that I would certainly prefer not to have when shooting.
11-29-2015, 06:57 PM   #855
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
weird total 'drop the battery, restart needed' camera lockup
Yep happens to me from time to time - double hard if the grip is installed. This is possibly caused by the firmware stopping the mirror machine gunning.... I then get the single black frame.
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