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04-06-2014, 07:53 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Observation from reading these incidents:
1) lens is not the cause
2) type of battery and battery charge state is not the cause
3) ambient temperature is not the cause
4) camera setting - mode, single/multiple frame, viewfinder/live view, etc. etc. - none of these are the cause
5) the mirror but not the shutter is fluttering (no extra images recorded by anyone)

There is far too great a variety of lenses, settings, conditions, battery state etc. etc. for any of these to be the cause.

THEREFORE, the fault is in the camera body, either electrical sensors/switches or firmware, and is related to the mirror mechanism. If the problem is firmware related, Ricoh/Pentax should be able to fix it ASAP. If the the problem is in some contact or switch, all K3 bodies should be recalled for either replacement (if the fault can be and is fixed in production) or refund. Exasperating. This has the potential to kill Ricoh/Pentax reputation.
We've grown to 70 reports of this issue now. And you're right WPresto, there is too much variety in conditions, lenses, settings, etc. for any of it to be the cause. I've been saying that from the beginning. With all the shooting I do -- and I venture a guess I'm putting more shutter actuations on my cameras than most will in their camera's lifetime -- that has been my experience as well. No matter what I did, what I changed, what condition I was in, what batteries I was using, etc..., and even through getting a new K3 body, the issue would still happen.

Update

I've had the two K5-IIs bodies now through several time-lapse shoots. At least one of the bodies has almost 20,000 shutter actuations already, the other probably about 8k-10k. Neither body has had one issue so far.

As for whether there's been any word from Pentax/Ricoh on the issue recently... No. I was told by the tech I've dealt with the last few months that he'd keep me in the loop and Japan is working on the issue (according to him). I've heard nothing recently as to any progress. I've also written a big article on the whole issue, but I've held off publishing it to give them a chance to resolve it all... I'm not sure how much longer I'll wait.

04-08-2014, 01:01 PM   #77
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Location: UK - Hertfordshire
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I had my first experience of mirror flap last week while on holiday. First time I was taking a photo of a boat , I had not taken a photo for 5 or 10 minutes prior to that. It stopped on its own after a few seconds. The second time it happened, a few days later I had been taking a number of shots and it started flapping and would not stop until I took the battery out.
K3 Ser # 4828534
Bought Nov 2013
firmware 1.03
Settings AV , spot focus , centre weighted. Pentax Battery was about half full. Weather was hot ( 28C and sunny ) Lens was 18-135 WR.
A few days later I was doing a video, when I stopped the video the video save screen never finished the wait icon was displayed but never finished. Camera was locked up. no buttons worked. Powering off on had no effect. Had to remove battery to regain control. The video file had been saved OK though.
04-09-2014, 07:38 AM   #78
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I've had a few lock-ups but no runaway shutter. The last couple of times, removing the lens and inserting back into the camera unfroze it!
04-09-2014, 04:00 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
We've grown to 70 reports of this issue now. And you're right WPresto, there is too much variety in conditions, lenses, settings, etc. for any of it to be the cause. I've been saying that from the beginning. With all the shooting I do -- and I venture a guess I'm putting more shutter actuations on my cameras than most will in their camera's lifetime -- that has been my experience as well. No matter what I did, what I changed, what condition I was in, what batteries I was using, etc..., and even through getting a new K3 body, the issue would still happen.

Update

I've had the two K5-IIs bodies now through several time-lapse shoots. At least one of the bodies has almost 20,000 shutter actuations already, the other probably about 8k-10k. Neither body has had one issue so far.

As for whether there's been any word from Pentax/Ricoh on the issue recently... No. I was told by the tech I've dealt with the last few months that he'd keep me in the loop and Japan is working on the issue (according to him). I've heard nothing recently as to any progress. I've also written a big article on the whole issue, but I've held off publishing it to give them a chance to resolve it all... I'm not sure how much longer I'll wait.
DRabbit,


I saw your information in a K3 review about the mirror issue. I was looking for information to compare the K3 to the K5IIs. From the information you have presented, it seems that the more stable of the two cameras may be the K5IIs. I have two K5 bodies and am very happy with them but may be possibly looking for a third in the future. Do you find the image quality, low light performance and overall stability of the K5IIs to be accommodating in comparison to the K3? I have been researching and have read that the K5IIs is better in low light than the K5 and that its image sharpness is better also. Would you find the K5IIs as advanced as the K3 as far as low light and image quality/sharpness capabilities? I know the K3 has a 24 mp sensor, but the K5IIs images are very highly rated also. I am curious as to what your opinion is on purchasing the K5IIs. Please let me know. Thank you, Casey


Last edited by C_Jones; 04-09-2014 at 04:02 PM. Reason: corrections
04-10-2014, 04:14 AM   #80
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Has anybody experienced this with the K-5II or the K-5IIs? I found out that this problem already existed with the K-5 since 2011. I wonder why this has never been resolved by Pentax.

Check the link below.

Pentax K5 Photography by Jim Radcliffe

Last edited by totsmuyco; 04-10-2014 at 04:16 AM. Reason: Grammar
04-10-2014, 04:58 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Let's start a list so we can get a sense of how many people are having the problem, and details that might be helpful.

Here's the rules:

Answer this thread only ONCE... just to report in.
Discussion is happening about the issue in plenty of other threads already. Let's keep this just a list of victims.

- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/250865-k3-locking-up-while...ime-lapse.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/242257-odd-shutter-issue-f...0-problem.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/253961-k3-firmware-1-03-mirror-flap.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/253707-k-3-failure-couldnt...g-up-down.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/253079-shutter-flutter-pan...w-battery.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/255833-k3-shutter-rattling...ttery-low.html

Include your serial number and purchase date.

Describe when and how the crazy mirror lockups occurred, and what resolved it.

Include any camera settings and setups you can remember.

Members Reporting the Issue

So far, in the various threads about this issue, between me and Jhmos, we've counted a total of 71 people who have reported having the problem at least once. This is a complete list. The names with stars are the ones that have also reported here in this thread (the ones without stars have reported in one of the other threads linked above). I will update the list as more people reply here.

The ones with numbers indicate that the user has had more than one K3 body suffer with this problem.

agchang ✭ (2)
audiobomber ✭
A.Yzerr ✭
Barry Pearson ✭
BillO ✭
Black_Wizards ✭
bschafer ✭
bvanes ✭
carolina_sky
derekkite
dgrPhotos ✭
DimC
distudio ✭
dodel ✭
dosdan
DRabbit ✭ (2)
Edchristenson
emiliogv ✭
Erdž ✭
esancho
Essdubbya ✭
evansph ✭
fcrespo
fjeril ✭
Flasher ✭
Geoff Ince ✭
goubejp
i_trax ✭
isnogud ✭
Jbinpg ✭
jhmos ✭
Jon
karro ✭
lisbon
Mallee Boy ✭
mamethot
Martin_C ✭
mille19 ✭
naboo
Nostrildamus ✭
OJGoreng ✭
PALADIN85020 ✭
Paul the Sunman ✭
pearsaab ✭
Peter Budd ✭
peterh337 ✭
Poit ✭
raider
rawc
RickC ✭
riseform ✭
Rite ✭
Rockville Bob ✭
Rondec ✭
s76 ✭
sharepointalex
slartibartfast ✭
Stagnant ✭
Tapio Kekkonen ✭ (3)
Thomas Backa
Tjompen1968 ✭
Twino4u
umber ✭
unkipunki ✭
walter ✭
WillWeaverRVA
Wired ✭
wizofoz
WPRESTO ✭
wpompen ✭

list updated 4/9/14

Update 4/9/14: I've held off for a long time leaving a negative review on Amazon.com, hoping for a solution from Pentax... but now that this issue has dragged on for months, I really felt it was necessary. Pentax needs to address this issue and not sweep it under the rug. I encourage other users to do the same.

- - - - -

My report:


I Have Had Two K3s with The Issue.

K3 #1 was purchased in November, 2013.
K3 #2 was received from local retailer as exchange for first, in February, 2014. Serial #4859575

Crazy Mirror Sickness Occurred:

Problem has been a recurring one for me, when I shoot time-lapse photography. Has happened more times than I can count now.
Popping battery out stops the crazy mirror flapping.
Sometimes turning it on and off multiple times stops it.

Typical Settings/Setup When it Happens:

1 or 2 SD cards in the camera.
It has happened with several different brands SD cards.
Av or M mode
Interval of 3 or 4 seconds for 500-700 shots.
Shake Reduction Off (though has happened with it on)
Outdoors and Indoors
10║F to 50║F+
No battery grip. All genuine pentax batteries. Has happened with various batteries from old to new.
Has happened using Live View and not using Live View
WB typically set to "daylight"
JPG usually at Medium or Small
Focus is AF.S Select or Spot, but I switch to Manual before I start the time-lapse.



Crazy-Ass Mirror Sickness (CAMS) looks like this (second half of video):

Pentax K3 Locking Up... Crazy Mirror Flap Issue - YouTube
I am not saying there is a problem overall. But is so I hope Pentax learned from SDM and what happened to Nikon.


If Pentax finds the problem then Pentax has to be compelled to re-call the units effected. Pentax lost a lot of business with SDM IMO from what I could see on forums activities. And Nikon took a hit and a big hit from China. Its not a minor problem when someone pays a good bit of money for a product and it behaves in a way that it should not. In warranty or not! Customers are number one, customer service in every country.


I have not made an IMO of the issue yet. I bought my K-5 just over one year ago and still have my K20D sitting on a shelf. I have time to see what happens. I won't be a beta tester. And to be fair Ricoh is not Hoya.
04-10-2014, 08:29 AM   #82
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Original Poster
Reminder

This thread is for reporting the issue of crazy mirror-flapping. We don't want it to turn into discussion of the problem itself. There are many other threads that already exist for that... we want to try to keep this a clean list of people who have the problem. Please refer to the to the first post in this thread for links to other threads discussing the issue.

C_Jones: I replied to you by private message.
Totsmuyco: Not that I am aware of.
James: It's an issue - how widespread it is, no one yet knows, but I don't think it's insignificant that we've accumulated so far, 71 names here. We have more complaints of this issue here in the forum than Amazon has positive reviews of the K3, so I think that is telling at least in some regard.

Again, please refer to one of the other threads for further discussion.
04-10-2014, 11:50 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Reminder

This thread is for reporting the issue of crazy mirror-flapping. We don't want it to turn into discussion of the problem itself. There are many other threads that already exist for that... we want to try to keep this a clean list of people who have the problem. Please refer to the to the first post in this thread for links to other threads discussing the issue.

C_Jones: I replied to you by private message.
Totsmuyco: Not that I am aware of.
James: It's an issue - how widespread it is, no one yet knows, but I don't think it's insignificant that we've accumulated so far, 71 names here. We have more complaints of this issue here in the forum than Amazon has positive reviews of the K3, so I think that is telling at least in some regard.

Again, please refer to one of the other threads for further discussion.
Thank you Amy.


Casey

04-10-2014, 09:34 PM   #84
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Posts: 337
I was so bummed out over the K-3's reliability issue, I have now opted for the Canon 6D full-frame.

After 35 years as a Pentaxian, the K-3 drove me to it ..
04-10-2014, 10:03 PM - 1 Like   #85
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Posts: 256
Too bad Rite. No mirror flop here. Don't let the proverbially Canon hit you in the axxx on the way out!
04-11-2014, 12:21 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by gosman Quote
Too bad Rite. No mirror flop here. Don't let the proverbially Canon hit you in the axxx on the way out!
----------------------------------------

I will still shoot with the Pentax bodies (four) and lenses I have as well, thank you ..
04-11-2014, 07:15 AM   #87
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Posts: 16
QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
Let's start a list so we can get a sense of how many people are having the problem, and details that might be helpful.

Here's the rules:

Answer this thread only ONCE... just to report in.
Discussion is happening about the issue in plenty of other threads already. Let's keep this just a list of victims.

- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/250865-k3-locking-up-while...ime-lapse.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/242257-odd-shutter-issue-f...0-problem.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/253961-k3-firmware-1-03-mirror-flap.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/253707-k-3-failure-couldnt...g-up-down.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/253079-shutter-flutter-pan...w-battery.html
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/255833-k3-shutter-rattling...ttery-low.html

Include your serial number and purchase date.

Describe when and how the crazy mirror lockups occurred, and what resolved it.

Include any camera settings and setups you can remember.

Members Reporting the Issue

So far, in the various threads about this issue, between me and Jhmos, we've counted a total of 71 people who have reported having the problem at least once. This is a complete list. The names with stars are the ones that have also reported here in this thread (the ones without stars have reported in one of the other threads linked above). I will update the list as more people reply here.

The ones with numbers indicate that the user has had more than one K3 body suffer with this problem.

agchang ✭ (2)
audiobomber ✭
A.Yzerr ✭
Barry Pearson ✭
BillO ✭
Black_Wizards ✭
bschafer ✭
bvanes ✭
carolina_sky
derekkite
dgrPhotos ✭
DimC
distudio ✭
dodel ✭
dosdan
DRabbit ✭ (2)
Edchristenson
emiliogv ✭
Erdž ✭
esancho
Essdubbya ✭
evansph ✭
fcrespo
fjeril ✭
Flasher ✭
Geoff Ince ✭
goubejp
i_trax ✭
isnogud ✭
Jbinpg ✭
jhmos ✭
Jon
karro ✭
lisbon
Mallee Boy ✭
mamethot
Martin_C ✭
mille19 ✭
naboo
Nostrildamus ✭
OJGoreng ✭
PALADIN85020 ✭
Paul the Sunman ✭
pearsaab ✭
Peter Budd ✭
peterh337 ✭
Poit ✭
raider
rawc
RickC ✭
riseform ✭
Rite ✭
Rockville Bob ✭
Rondec ✭
s76 ✭
sharepointalex
slartibartfast ✭
Stagnant ✭
Tapio Kekkonen ✭ (3)
Thomas Backa
Tjompen1968 ✭
Twino4u
umber ✭
unkipunki ✭
walter ✭
WillWeaverRVA
Wired ✭
wizofoz
WPRESTO ✭
wpompen ✭

list updated 4/9/14

Update 4/9/14: I've held off for a long time leaving a negative review on Amazon.com, hoping for a solution from Pentax... but now that this issue has dragged on for months, I really felt it was necessary. Pentax needs to address this issue and not sweep it under the rug. I encourage other users to do the same.

- - - - -

My report:


I Have Had Two K3s with The Issue.

K3 #1 was purchased in November, 2013.
K3 #2 was received from local retailer as exchange for first, in February, 2014. Serial #4859575

Crazy Mirror Sickness Occurred:

Problem has been a recurring one for me, when I shoot time-lapse photography. Has happened more times than I can count now.
Popping battery out stops the crazy mirror flapping.
Sometimes turning it on and off multiple times stops it.

Typical Settings/Setup When it Happens:

1 or 2 SD cards in the camera.
It has happened with several different brands SD cards.
Av or M mode
Interval of 3 or 4 seconds for 500-700 shots.
Shake Reduction Off (though has happened with it on)
Outdoors and Indoors
10║F to 50║F+
No battery grip. All genuine pentax batteries. Has happened with various batteries from old to new.
Has happened using Live View and not using Live View
WB typically set to "daylight"
JPG usually at Medium or Small
Focus is AF.S Select or Spot, but I switch to Manual before I start the time-lapse.



Crazy-Ass Mirror Sickness (CAMS) looks like this (second half of video):

Pentax K3 Locking Up... Crazy Mirror Flap Issue - YouTube
I had the problem on 3rd March 2014, and I reported it in another thread (K3 died on me).
In my case the fault became destructive, the K3 had probably a power fault and did not wake up again.

I got it via Amazon from a Pentax shop in France (I live in Italy). I shipped the camera back to them, under warranty. Since then I am still waiting (40 days). They tell me, very politely, that the camera was sent to Pentax and as soon as they have news, etc, etc. But there are no news whatsoever. A month has passed and still they report they have no news from Pentax. Anybody got a similar experience?

If I would be Pentax, I would send a new camera right away to the ailing customer, without wait for repair. Otherwise, customers fall out love with the brand.
04-11-2014, 07:29 AM   #88
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Location: Texas
Posts: 256
Amazon should make good to you on this. A great American company!
04-11-2014, 01:45 PM   #89
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Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England).
Posts: 1,395
Flap w/Metz flash and grip attached.
04-13-2014, 01:35 AM   #90
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 12
Crazy Mirror Problem on K3

This happened to me for the first time today, 13 April 2014. Pentax Battery on 'two bars', no grip, shutter count about 3075. On depressing shutter button in normal single-shot mode, the shutter seemed to be firing like a machine gun several times each second no images were recorded except possibly the first one.. Switching the camera off did not stop it. I had to remove the battery. Camera purchased March 2013, s/n 4910828. The only other odd thing with this camera was that on a shutter count of about 1000, the camera did not 'come to life' when switched on (no LCD display) and I had to remove the battery and replace it to get the camera to behave normally. However, each of these things has happened only once so far. Other than that it has behaved beautifully.
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