K3 Crazy Mirror Sickness (Mirror Flapping Lockup) - Report Yours Here!

unearthimages · 04-13-2014, 02:36 PM

My brand new k-3, mirror flopped today during a 8min time lapse. Pulled the battery to stop it. It has the up to date 1.03 firmware too.

Rite · 04-14-2014, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by unearthimages

My brand new k-3, mirror flopped today during a 8min time lapse. Pulled the battery to stop it. It has the up to date 1.03 firmware too.

---------------------------------------------------

If it is 'brand new,' I suggest you consider sending it back. There are more of these 'brand new' occurrences popping up.

If this were a Nik 600 being sold in China, would it get the attention of Ricoh?

Nikon to offer D600 replacements after sales ban in China ...

unearthimages · 04-14-2014, 07:17 AM

Yes its going back this week, think its a dud. My old K5 iis has never had a problem, also it has out performed it in lots of ways. My k5iis has warmer colours, better auto focus, better battery life and can out perform k3 in lower light?. I don't like the button placement too.

Unregistered User · 04-14-2014, 09:14 AM

Flippety flopp one more time during "landscape/macro". No LV, full battery, +12 degrees C... DA*300+TC...

**DRabbit** · 04-15-2014, 08:37 AM

UPDATE

Sorry to hear the latest group of reporters has also run into the problem. I wish we could really nail-down how wide-spread the problem is. I happen to think it's quite significant that in a month's time, we've accumulated 74 reports here in this thread.

Someone over at DPReview started a poll on how many people have had the mirror-flap problem - right now it stands at about 14%. Of course, just because someone hasn't had it yet, doesn't mean they won't run into it later... and that's the problem with this problem, isn't it? It's so unpredictable.

Last week, I finally left a negative review on Amazon.com. I held off doing it for a long time because I hoped, by now, Pentax would have resolved the issue.

And I've just sent my write-up about the issue for publication on another website. I had held off doing that for all the same reasons.

I would recommend some of you, if you are so inclined, go over to Amazon.com and leave a review about your experiences. Until Pentax feels pressure about this, they aren't going to address the issue... and with the recent post about the guy who just got his camera back from repair who told him they never heard of the issue, I think the time is well-passed for Pentax to start to feel some pressure.

audiobomber · 04-15-2014, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by DRabbit

UPDATEI would recommend some of you, if you are so inclined, go over to DPReview and answer the poll

Inviting a targeted audience skews the poll and invalidates the result.

bwDraco · 04-15-2014, 10:34 AM

Analysis of an audio recording of the shutter going off in this video:

Youtu.be

indicates that the mirror/shutter assembly is operating at upwards of 12 fps during a mirror flop event. It looks like the unit is running at its mechanical cyclic rate rather than the normal 8-9 fps burst shooting speed (DPReview got up to 8.9 fps).

I traced this issue to the aperture lever getting stuck in the K-r and K-5, with at least one user successfully correcting the issue in a K-r based on my suggestion. However, because the aperture lever has an independent motor in the K-5 and K-3, it doesn't move up when the shutter is fired and a lens is not attached, and so I can't exactly say if this is the real cause of the issue. The fact that the mirror (and possibly the shutter) are operating at faster-than-normal speeds leads me to think something, aperture lever or otherwise, is getting stuck and the camera is trying to unstick it.

--DragonLord

**DRabbit** · 04-15-2014, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Inviting a targeted audience skews the poll and invalidates the result.

I don't want to get into a debate inside this thread about it, but It's not exactly a targeted audience to ask the people who have actually had the problem to represent themselves. The overall K3 audience has been invited already, and if the ones with the problem DON'T answer the poll, then those numbers aren't accurate either, are they? (edit - link has been removed anyway now).

DragonLord:

I remember your post about the Kr and K5, and somewhere along the way in discussion about the issue (on DPReview) I did mention it. For me, when I'm shooting time-lapse, I shoot wide-open most of the time (to help avoid flickering), so I wonder what impact that has on this issue.

audiobomber · 04-15-2014, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by DRabbit

I don't want to get into a debate inside this thread about it, but It's not exactly a targeted audience to ask the people who have actually had the problem to represent themselves. The overall K3 audience has been invited already, and if the ones with the problem DON'T answer the poll, then those numbers aren't accurate either, are they?

Of course it is a targeted audience. In order to determine the frequency of the defect, the poll needs a random selection of K-3 owners . You are inviting a non-random group, owners who have had a problem, which will skew the result. I know this has become a cause for you, but you're messing up a useful poll.

gosman · 04-15-2014, 01:03 PM

Yes these problems seem to be sporadic. Which indeed makes it very hard to diagnose!

karro · 04-15-2014, 01:39 PM

I might get unpopular, but here's what I think: this isn't such a big deal; the mirror runaway happened to me, too, once; it was, admittedly, scary; it has never happened since, and I haven't seen any confirmed algorithm to reproduce the issue repeatedly. I also don't think that Pentax is not listening, it is highly unlikely; as soon as they'll get a solution (which may take a while, because it's so hard to reproduce), they'll release it, if it's related or can be fixed in firmware, or they will (should

) recall the cameras and fix the HW.
Either way, I'm not losing my night's sleep over it, and the moderator, perhaps, should clean up this thread; it's on a verge of becoming a "discussion".

Erd§ · 04-15-2014, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by DRabbit

The overall K3 audience has been invited already

Exactly.
And you've just targeted only those users with the problem.
But thanks for pointing me to the poll - while I have registered myself as being one of the 74 users affected in this thread, I answered "no" to the question: Have you experienced a significant amount of mirror flop?
This is becasue my mirror flop issue happened just the one time - and one time is nowhere near a significant amount. As user "karro" above states, to me, this is also not a big deal.
I wonder, out of the 74 K3 users affected here, how many have had the mirror flop happen just once? My bet would be a high majority.

YankeeDan · 04-15-2014, 10:12 PM

Add me to your list of mirror flappers as of yesterday. K3 firmware 1.03. Purchased in Oct 2013. Ser 4830293. Just doing routine landscape shots and in exposure bracket (x 3) mode when the mirror went nuts. I pulled the battery out and it returned to "normal."

**DRabbit** · 04-15-2014, 10:24 PM

I think the amount of times you have it happen can be (might be?) proportional to how much you use the camera... which could mean that those that need to depend on it for steady, reliable work might not be in the position to be able to do so.

And there is a member here who had the fault happen, and the fault itself seemed to caused the death of the camera. So even one time could be a big deal.

Sporadic or not, giving Pentax an excuse for a fault that effects reliability and could potentially cause other problems isn't the way to go.

Thanks for reporting in YankeeDan... sorry you had the problem!

Originally posted by audiobomber

Of course it is a targeted audience. In order to determine the frequency of the defect, the poll needs a random selection of K-3 owners . You are inviting a non-random group, owners who have had a problem, which will skew the result. I know this has become a cause for you, but you're messing up a useful poll.

Considering that I highly doubt everyone in this thread is even checking it anymore and one person has since replied to the poll since this morning, you're making a montain out of a molehill. And a lot more Pentax users were invited to the poll already over the last five days, but to not make people who have actually have the problem aware of it isn't accurate either. Whatever, it doesn't even matter. I removed the link since you think it's such a big deal.

A.Yzerr · 04-15-2014, 11:10 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by DRabbit

Considering that I highly doubt everyone in this thread is even checking it anymore

I actually still check this thread daily.

I like to check and see if there are any new developments.

I find it mildly disturbing that there exists this odd movement amongst other members and those of DPR that one should ignore an issue such as this...I think more so because the main proponents of the argument are those who have not experienced the issue, or have only had it occur infrequently. Sweeping it under the rug because of your personal experiences and optimistic thinking would be doing a grave disservice to those of us whom find the problem commonplace - not to mention you yourself as a potential K3 user should you ever encounter it in the future.

Logging information about individual occurences certainly may not lead anywhere with Pentax directly doing something, though I feel that gathering as much data on the issue would certainly make it easier to replicate eventually, and through that some troubleshooting by various members may find some solution. I definitely hope that it so happens Pentax takes notice and fixes things, however.

Still, I would like to thank DRabbit for taking the time to actively pursue the issue.

04-13-2014, 02:36 PM	#91
unearthimages New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: London. Posts: 11	K-3 Mirror Flop Again My brand new k-3, mirror flopped today during a 8min time lapse. Pulled the battery to stop it. It has the up to date 1.03 firmware too.

04-15-2014, 08:37 AM	#95
DRabbit Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 593 Original Poster	UPDATE Sorry to hear the latest group of reporters has also run into the problem. I wish we could really nail-down how wide-spread the problem is. I happen to think it's quite significant that in a month's time, we've accumulated 74 reports here in this thread. Someone over at DPReview started a poll on how many people have had the mirror-flap problem - right now it stands at about 14%. Of course, just because someone hasn't had it yet, doesn't mean they won't run into it later... and that's the problem with this problem, isn't it? It's so unpredictable. Last week, I finally left a negative review on Amazon.com. I held off doing it for a long time because I hoped, by now, Pentax would have resolved the issue. And I've just sent my write-up about the issue for publication on another website. I had held off doing that for all the same reasons. I would recommend some of you, if you are so inclined, go over to Amazon.com and leave a review about your experiences. Until Pentax feels pressure about this, they aren't going to address the issue... and with the recent post about the guy who just got his camera back from repair who told him they never heard of the issue, I think the time is well-passed for Pentax to start to feel some pressure. Last edited by DRabbit; 04-15-2014 at 10:30 PM.

04-15-2014, 11:19 AM	#98
DRabbit Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 593 Original Poster	Originally posted by audiobomber Inviting a targeted audience skews the poll and invalidates the result. I don't want to get into a debate inside this thread about it, but It's not exactly a targeted audience to ask the people who have actually had the problem to represent themselves. The overall K3 audience has been invited already, and if the ones with the problem DON'T answer the poll, then those numbers aren't accurate either, are they? (edit - link has been removed anyway now). DragonLord: I remember your post about the Kr and K5, and somewhere along the way in discussion about the issue (on DPReview) I did mention it. For me, when I'm shooting time-lapse, I shoot wide-open most of the time (to help avoid flickering), so I wonder what impact that has on this issue. Last edited by DRabbit; 04-15-2014 at 10:30 PM.

04-15-2014, 10:24 PM	#104
DRabbit Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 593 Original Poster	I think the amount of times you have it happen can be (might be?) proportional to how much you use the camera... which could mean that those that need to depend on it for steady, reliable work might not be in the position to be able to do so. And there is a member here who had the fault happen, and the fault itself seemed to caused the death of the camera. So even one time could be a big deal. Sporadic or not, giving Pentax an excuse for a fault that effects reliability and could potentially cause other problems isn't the way to go. Thanks for reporting in YankeeDan... sorry you had the problem! Originally posted by audiobomber Of course it is a targeted audience. In order to determine the frequency of the defect, the poll needs a random selection of K-3 owners . You are inviting a non-random group, owners who have had a problem, which will skew the result. I know this has become a cause for you, but you're messing up a useful poll. Considering that I highly doubt everyone in this thread is even checking it anymore and one person has since replied to the poll since this morning, you're making a montain out of a molehill. And a lot more Pentax users were invited to the poll already over the last five days, but to not make people who have actually have the problem aware of it isn't accurate either. Whatever, it doesn't even matter. I removed the link since you think it's such a big deal. Last edited by DRabbit; 04-15-2014 at 10:31 PM.

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04-14-2014, 02:27 AM	#92
Rite Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 337	Originally posted by unearthimages My brand new k-3, mirror flopped today during a 8min time lapse. Pulled the battery to stop it. It has the up to date 1.03 firmware too. --------------------------------------------------- If it is 'brand new,' I suggest you consider sending it back. There are more of these 'brand new' occurrences popping up. If this were a Nik 600 being sold in China, would it get the attention of Ricoh? **Nikon to offer D600 replacements after sales ban in China ...**

04-14-2014, 07:17 AM	#93
unearthimages New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: London. Posts: 11	Yes its going back this week, think its a dud. My old K5 iis has never had a problem, also it has out performed it in lots of ways. My k5iis has warmer colours, better auto focus, better battery life and can out perform k3 in lower light?. I don't like the button placement too.

04-14-2014, 09:14 AM	#94
Unregistered User Guest	Flippety flopp one more time during "landscape/macro". No LV, full battery, +12 degrees C... DA*300+TC...

04-15-2014, 09:19 AM	#96
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by DRabbit UPDATEI would recommend some of you, if you are so inclined, go over to DPReview and answer the poll Inviting a targeted audience skews the poll and invalidates the result.

04-15-2014, 12:41 PM	#99
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by DRabbit I don't want to get into a debate inside this thread about it, but It's not exactly a targeted audience to ask the people who have actually had the problem to represent themselves. The overall K3 audience has been invited already, and if the ones with the problem DON'T answer the poll, then those numbers aren't accurate either, are they? Of course it is a targeted audience. In order to determine the frequency of the defect, the poll needs a random selection of K-3 owners . You are inviting a non-random group, owners who have had a problem, which will skew the result. I know this has become a cause for you, but you're messing up a useful poll.

04-15-2014, 01:03 PM	#100
gosman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 263	Yes these problems seem to be sporadic. Which indeed makes it very hard to diagnose!

04-15-2014, 01:39 PM	#101
karro Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Riga Photos: Albums Posts: 245	I might get unpopular, but here's what I think: this isn't such a big deal; the mirror runaway happened to me, too, once; it was, admittedly, scary; it has never happened since, and I haven't seen any confirmed algorithm to reproduce the issue repeatedly. I also don't think that Pentax is not listening, it is highly unlikely; as soon as they'll get a solution (which may take a while, because it's so hard to reproduce), they'll release it, if it's related or can be fixed in firmware, or they will (should ) recall the cameras and fix the HW. Either way, I'm not losing my night's sleep over it, and the moderator, perhaps, should clean up this thread; it's on a verge of becoming a "discussion".

04-15-2014, 10:08 PM	#102
Erd§ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: SEQ Posts: 323	Originally posted by DRabbit The overall K3 audience has been invited already Exactly. And you've just targeted only those users with the problem. But thanks for pointing me to the poll - while I have registered myself as being one of the 74 users affected in this thread, I answered "no" to the question: Have you experienced a significant amount of mirror flop? This is becasue my mirror flop issue happened just the one time - and one time is nowhere near a significant amount. As user "karro" above states, to me, this is also not a big deal. I wonder, out of the 74 K3 users affected here, how many have had the mirror flop happen just once? My bet would be a high majority.

04-15-2014, 10:12 PM	#103
YankeeDan Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery Posts: 35	Add me to your list of mirror flappers as of yesterday. K3 firmware 1.03. Purchased in Oct 2013. Ser 4830293. Just doing routine landscape shots and in exposure bracket (x 3) mode when the mirror went nuts. I pulled the battery out and it returned to "normal."

04-15-2014, 11:10 PM - 1 Like	#105
A.Yzerr Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 29	Originally posted by DRabbit Considering that I highly doubt everyone in this thread is even checking it anymore I actually still check this thread daily. I like to check and see if there are any new developments. I find it mildly disturbing that there exists this odd movement amongst other members and those of DPR that one should ignore an issue such as this...I think more so because the main proponents of the argument are those who have not experienced the issue, or have only had it occur infrequently. Sweeping it under the rug because of your personal experiences and optimistic thinking would be doing a grave disservice to those of us whom find the problem commonplace - not to mention you yourself as a potential K3 user should you ever encounter it in the future. Logging information about individual occurences certainly may not lead anywhere with Pentax directly doing something, though I feel that gathering as much data on the issue would certainly make it easier to replicate eventually, and through that some troubleshooting by various members may find some solution. I definitely hope that it so happens Pentax takes notice and fixes things, however. Still, I would like to thank DRabbit for taking the time to actively pursue the issue.