asharpe: Interesting exchange. Thanks for sharing it.
Originally posted by Doundounba This seems to have been stated pretty clearly upthread, but DRabbit (as part of her job) shoots timelapse
all the time. This means not only that she shoots a TON more frames than even pretty hardcore photogs, but also that she needs the camera to run reliably unattended. And when it locks up, she loses not just one frame, but a great many frames. And this was happening to her. Regularly. Of course you're right that other (non-Pentax) hardware fails too, and I'm sure other statistically unlikely events regularly ruin important shots/shoots. I don't think that this lessens the pain very much when you get bit by the mirror-flop issue.
Since she shoots so many frames, her work was being regularly affected by this issue, and she took it upon herself to coordinate the community about it. She has also stated that she's been in contact with Pentax tech support pretty much from the start.
+1 to that!
Thanks for the nice summary and support Doundounba
Originally posted by normhead Still waiting DRabbit... how many frames have you lost due to mirror flap?
As I said, I've had it happen once and it didn't cost me an image. But your cases seem to be more severe than mine.
You want a number? I can't give you one, but it's a lot. Not to mention the inconvenience it caused. Admittedly, some of that was my own fault for holding onto the camera for so long and working with Pentax to try to track the cause of the issue.
Pointing to other cameras that have problems is a pointless exercise. First off, Canon and Nikon are used SO MUCH MORE than Pentax in the professional arena that's it's almost ridiculous to try to compare. Second, the K3 didn't FAIL COMPLETELY for me, so while some might track the mirror-flapping issue as a failure, others would not.
Originally posted by normhead You can pay a lot more than you do for a K-3 and have failures...
Your point being what exactly? As stated over and over and over again, I could also pay a lot less and not have any problems at all. The K5-II and IIs perform exactly as expected. Not one time have I had the camera lockup or get the mirror-crazies. They have been flawless.
Originally posted by dadipentak Look, I totally understand where DRabbit is coming from. So much so I'd never even consider shooting a wedding (I'd be more concerned about human--not equipment--failure.) At this point, I'm satisfied that Ricoh is prepared to address the problem and I'll take them up on that if it ever gets to the point where I'm really concerned--I'm an amateur and miss shots for all sorts of reasons. There's no doubt in my mind that, by collecting reports of the issue along with situational information, this thread has facilitated resolution of the problem. So thumbs up to DRabbit for starting it.
Thanks Dadipentak
Originally posted by Ray Pulley They have addressed the problem and are repairing cameras. How is that a "step in the right direction"? When you bought the camera, it came with a warranty and repairing or replacing the camera is all that Pentax owes you should you have a problem.
I say a "step in the right direction" because of the wording of the correspondence... it has stated "resolve/reduce", and the "reduce" is the part that makes me wonder if it's completely a fix. The
correspondence I received also said they are still testing and evaluating.
Originally posted by Ray Pulley Ridiculous BS. What do you think Ricoh would have done with failed cameras that were returned, thrown them in the trash and told the owners that they were out of luck?
So fine, you're not convinced that me talking with Pentax/Ricoh USA about this issue directly for 4 months and reports of the issue here and my effort to get them to see this as a problem has had any impact at all. You're entitled to that opinion.
You obviously haven't followed the story because what you're suggesting is exactly what happened. I had two K3 bodies with the problem and Pentax never requested EITHER OF THEM back directly. When I exchanged/returned them, they went through the retailer's normal return procedure. They were not flagged as having "mirror-flapping" or sent back to Pentax in any special way. It actually surprised me that Pentax didn't request them back, as they were bodies KNOWN to have the problem. But they didn't. And this was after months of communicating with them about it. So yeah, they just got "thrown in the trash" - or just as well since they were returned through normal retail procedures.
Originally posted by Ray Pulley How many weeks or months did you play camera tester rather than returning the cameras? If you were one of the earliest to encounter this problem, your weeks/months of of playing camera troubleshooter delayed getting samples of this problem to the real Engineers and Technicians that could fix the problem.
Apparently you don't know the whole story. I wasn't just playing tester all on my own for the hell of it. I reported the problem directly to Pentax/Ricoh USA in early December. I played tester for two reasons... one, I didn't want to give up the K3 because I liked it in so many other ways... and two, because they were asking me questions about what caused the problem, so we tried to figure it out. They didn't ask me to send it in for service because they couldn't fix something they didn't know how to. And I didn't play tester on Saturdays when I have nothing better today, these were real-world problems that would occur at real photo shoots. I would have the problem and report it to them. They'd ask questions. I'd answer. They'd suggest something. I'd try it. I'd have the problem again and report it. Rinse, repeat. They didn't even suggest I exchange the first K3 until February.
And by the way, some of us have an actual life to live, ya know with jobs to attend to and families to care for and mothers having emergency surgery and so on. So no, this didn't all take place in a week's time. I would go to a photo shoot and have the problem. I'd email them. A day or two later they would reply. They'd ask questions. A day or two later I'd answer. A week later they'd reply with suggestions for me. There'd be phone calls. There'd be suggestions. I'd try their suggestions a few days or a week later at my next photo shoot and report back, then again, wait for them to respond. It takes time.
Originally posted by Ray Pulley IMO folks like you that spent months playing camera/tester/troubleshooter and encouraging others to do the same instead of promptly returning the problem cameras DELAYED getting a fix in place.
And folks like you Ray, have nothing better to do than attack people on the internet for no reason what-so-ever. You obviously don't know the whole story, so maybe you should have found out before you decided I somehow caused a delay in resolving the problem. Between the beginning of December and the end of March I reported a TON of information to Pentax/Ricoh USA directly... and it wasn't until March, that I returned the second K3 body because Pentax USA told me to. It wasn'tt until March that I started this thread to begin counting up others people who had the problem (at the suggestion of another member). It wasn't until April that I left a somewhat negative review on Amazon. It wasn't until April that I wrote an article about the issue. From the beginning I was patient and methodical,
and in touch with Pentax directly about the problem.
Based on the fact that some other Pentax bodies have exhibited this issue for years (in some form) and based on their history with the SDM failures... if you think Pentax would have done anything but remain silent on this without pressure, well good for you. Keep being a blind fan-boy. As a dedicated Pentax user now for years, I chose not to remain silent. I want to see the issue put to rest once and for all.