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04-10-2014, 03:59 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by fgaudet Quote
A few things awaldram,



AF-1 and AF-2 are the mode selections for the shutter half-press and the AF button on the back, check your menu .
CindyV wrote When I set it to AF2 as opposed to AF1 it is supposed to fire only when shutter button is pressed but not halfway. It did not work that way. It fired without focusing at all.

This is about AF modes not button customization, Button customization will not effect shutter firing whether you disable half press or not.


QuoteOriginally posted by fgaudet Quote
Try it with your camera, every camera I have available at the moment, once the focus is locked, you can move as much as you want and the camera will still fire.



If it would behave like this, no camera would ever release its shutter. No photos from a moving car, boat or train. No photos while walking... And no panning shots.
Your right, I was trying to make the point that hand holding macros will never work successfully due to the fine DoF but got confused in the AF-s operating mode, if CinyV cannot fire the shutter then its because the camera does not achieve focus lock not the other way round so my point on MFD may be more accurate.

When was the last time you tried to Pan a moving car, Boat or train at 50cm away !! you are right though it is not possible, No camera can adjust AF fast enough.

DoF is relative to distance from subject

@270mm 50 metered away f6.4 DoF is 8.6 Meters not .015 mm as it is at 50cm !

Either way I'm confident there is no issue with either K3 as far as focusing goes.

04-10-2014, 09:35 PM   #32
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I am still working on getting this resolved. I went back to the store today and this is what we came up with: The hold AF Status was off so we turned up on to Medium. I am going to keep my fingers crossed that this works.
I was told that I use too slow a shutter speed when I am shooting at 300mm. But hey, I don't understand what is wrong with that as long as it is working for me. I mean why should I have to adjust me shooting style to accommodate the camera? Why should I pay more for a camera that gives me less freedom. I shoot full out most of the time at very slow shutter speeds and I have always gotten fabulous results as you can see the kind of clarity that I get with my old Canon DSLR in this photo, which was shot at 300mm, 1/13.
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04-11-2014, 12:23 AM   #33
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Was that handheld? If so it's impressive because that's extremely slow. I would shoot at minimum 1/100-1/200 even with SR for that.
04-11-2014, 12:44 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by CindyV Quote
I am still working on getting this resolved. I went back to the store today and this is what we came up with: The hold AF Status was off so we turned up on to Medium. I am going to keep my fingers crossed that this works.
I was told that I use too slow a shutter speed when I am shooting at 300mm. But hey, I don't understand what is wrong with that as long as it is working for me. I mean why should I have to adjust me shooting style to accommodate the camera? Why should I pay more for a camera that gives me less freedom. I shoot full out most of the time at very slow shutter speeds and I have always gotten fabulous results as you can see the kind of clarity that I get with my old Canon DSLR in this photo, which was shot at 300mm, 1/13.
Well it has a little blur in it but not much. Good technique. The K-3 has a lot more pixels/inch, same for Nikon D800 and the owners of the D800 had problems at first with blurry images, as did I with the K-3. You will have to improve your technique using the K-3 due to this fact. High pixel density AND no AA-filter makes the sensor more unforgiving to shake. I used to shoot with slower shutter speeds than I can with the K-3. So hang in there.

The Hold setting is only good when using AF-C and you should have the camera set to AF-S and Spot when shooting stationary subjects.

04-11-2014, 06:11 AM   #35
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Wow, you certainly don't give me much hope then. I guess the best solution for me is to just get a duplicate body of what I already have. For my shooting style, I have never been able to find a tripod that is not a royal PIA! I am a multifarious shooter and I get frustrated when I have to slow down and miss shots. I see that Nikon is coming out with a new 18-300 lens but even if I bought a Nikon camera that has over 18 pixels, I am still going to be having the same issues. So what is the purpose of all this built-in anti-shake mechanism then? I am a fine art photographer and I use my camera as an artist uses a brush. I exhibit in galleries and I need to be able to enlarge my photos beyond 16x24.I just want a camera that will do what I want it to, instead of the other way around. In this day and age, why can't that be accomplished?
04-11-2014, 07:18 AM   #36
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I'm not sure there's any reason to limit your shutter speed so slow. Set your aperture and then your shutter speed to keep the ISO at a decent range. Maybe if you're shooting in Tv you want to keep it low, but I don't like this kind of shooting on a telephoto for sure. To me, TAv is the way to go with teles - set your priorities.

Out in the sunlight at f/8 my shutter speed often approaches 1/1000 just to keep the ISO around 200. That's with the 55-300 at 300mm
04-11-2014, 07:52 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by CindyV Quote
Wow, you certainly don't give me much hope then. I guess the best solution for me is to just get a duplicate body of what I already have. For my shooting style, I have never been able to find a tripod that is not a royal PIA! I am a multifarious shooter and I get frustrated when I have to slow down and miss shots. I see that Nikon is coming out with a new 18-300 lens but even if I bought a Nikon camera that has over 18 pixels, I am still going to be having the same issues. So what is the purpose of all this built-in anti-shake mechanism then? I am a fine art photographer and I use my camera as an artist uses a brush. I exhibit in galleries and I need to be able to enlarge my photos beyond 16x24.I just want a camera that will do what I want it to, instead of the other way around. In this day and age, why can't that be accomplished?
There is no shake reduction out there that is made to fully cope with 300mm at 1/13s handheld, it generally can cope with between 2-4 stops too slow shutter times and not more. If viewed at same viewing sizes the number of megapixels shouldn't make any real difference here, only if you really pixel-peep. There is no reason that neither you or camera should be able to get about the same sharpness with the same settings no matter what decent camera you use as long as it doesn't push the equipment.

Just relax and shoot and you will get used to the new camera and try to better your technique (like we all try to do).

From your water shot:
Focal Length 180.0mm
Exposure Time 1/800s (0.0012)
Aperture F/11.0
ISO Equivalent 25600

Pushing ISO to that extreme levels will soften and create noisy shots no matter the camera, that's not the camera's fault it's laws of physics. It would have been better to use at least double the shutter time and and use at least F8. This is just a matter of choosing the best settings and is of the same importance no matter if it's a camera from the 1930's or the latest Nikon pro model. A new camera won't help you work around this.

How come you go for superzooms for macro?
04-11-2014, 08:22 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote

Just relax and shoot and you will get used to the new camera and try to better your technique (like we all try to do).

From your water shot:
Focal Length 180.0mm
Exposure Time 1/800s (0.0012)
Aperture F/11.0
ISO Equivalent 25600

Pushing ISO to that extreme levels will soften and create noisy shots no matter the camera, that's not the camera's fault it's laws of physics. It would have been better to use at least double the shutter time and and use at least F8. This is just a matter of choosing the best settings and is of the same importance no matter if it's a camera from the 1930's or the latest Nikon pro model. A new camera won't help you work around this.

How come you go for superzooms for macro?
??
Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/13 second ===> 0.07692 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 10/1 ===> ƒ/10
Exposure Program = shutter priority (4)
ISO Speed Ratings = 400
Sensitivity Type = recommended exposure index (REI) (2)
Recommended Exposure Index = 400
EXIF Version = 0230
Original Date/Time = 2014:03:23 12:16:46
Digitization Date/Time = 2014:03:23 12:16:46
Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 370044/100000
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/13 second
Aperture Value (APEX) = 6643856/1000000
Aperture = ƒ/10
Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0
Max Aperture Value (APEX) = 525/100 ===> 5.25
Max Aperture = ƒ/6.17
Distance to Subject = 80/100 m
Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 300/1 mm ===> 300 mm

04-11-2014, 08:48 AM   #39
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Stop filling the dish.
04-11-2014, 08:59 AM   #40
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Well, I'm still learning new things about this camera.
I switched to using AF2 and using the AF button for focusing. I just realized that the camera ignores the Focus Priority settings for AFS and AFC modes, so the camera will not wait to be in focus before firing the first shot (tested with a 18-135 WR).
That does not seem right, I can't see a reason why the priority setting should be ignored.

Last edited by jhmos; 04-11-2014 at 10:19 AM.
04-11-2014, 09:56 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Stop filling the dish.
The expression is new to me. Explain please.
04-11-2014, 10:12 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
The expression is new to me. Explain please.
He may be implying that answering the original poster's questions would be "feeding" an internet troll, i.e., encouraging a person who has malicious intent.

An internet troll is "a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion." (from Wikipedia)
04-11-2014, 10:23 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by CindyV Quote
Wow, you certainly don't give me much hope then. I guess the best solution for me is to just get a duplicate body of what I already have. For my shooting style, I have never been able to find a tripod that is not a royal PIA! I am a multifarious shooter and I get frustrated when I have to slow down and miss shots. I see that Nikon is coming out with a new 18-300 lens but even if I bought a Nikon camera that has over 18 pixels, I am still going to be having the same issues. So what is the purpose of all this built-in anti-shake mechanism then? I am a fine art photographer and I use my camera as an artist uses a brush. I exhibit in galleries and I need to be able to enlarge my photos beyond 16x24.I just want a camera that will do what I want it to, instead of the other way around. In this day and age, why can't that be accomplished?
honestly, because the laws of physics on this planet can't be rewritten? the longer the focal length, the narrower the field of view. the narrower the field of view the more pixels density. the more pixel density the more pixels to register movement. shooting handheld on the same aps-c sensor: a 6 MP sensor will be far less likely to show motion blur then a 12MP sensor and a 24Mp will show the most because you have more pixels spaced closer together to register each minute change during the exposure time.

looking at your images, and reading your replies, I honestly think you have gotten away with several minor technical mistakes for years, because your photos have been "good enough". now the K3 has revealed those flaws and its the camera's fault?

why not take some of the practical advice given on this thread and become a better technician? take the time to learn proper tripod technique. with practice you'll find you'll miss fewer and fewer shots because your setup time will be less. a camera is only as good as the photographer wielding it. if that photographer doesn't use good technique, there's a good chance that camera will yield unacceptable images. you have gotten away for years with bad technique. so now you really have 2 choices, go back to older models of camera that "hide" your flaws, or adapt to the new paradigm, and discover how much better images can be with a powerful tool and improved technique.

Last edited by nomadkng; 04-11-2014 at 10:32 AM.
04-11-2014, 10:38 AM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by pete-tarmigan Quote
He may be implying that answering the original poster's questions would be "feeding" an internet troll, i.e., encouraging a person who has malicious intent.
I wouldn't go so far as to accuse a new member of being a troll.

However, there's someting strange about the entire thread given what appears to be misuse of a medium quality zoom, handholding at 1/13 for macro (I call BS on that), inability to respond to suggestion, stated desire to change brands rather than exchange the camera, sensor dust, claims of performance by other brand not attainable in nornmal use by other members, etc.

Probably just a buyer with inflated expectations, not some unemployed dude in his Mom's living room sitting in his Dad's Barco-lounger in his PJ's making up #$%^ to post on the internet.
04-11-2014, 11:00 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by CindyV Quote
I am a fine art photographer and I use my camera as an artist uses a brush.
So, just disable the whole AF and focus manually, makes more sense to learn to focus than trying to learn how to circumvent the AF system. After re-reading your first post, it would make your life so... oh so much easier to just switch the camera to MF and be freely creative. Which is re-enforced bu this:

QuoteOriginally posted by CindyV Quote
I just want a camera that will do what I want it to
And then there is this

QuoteOriginally posted by CindyV Quote
I exhibit in galleries and I need to be able to enlarge my photos beyond 16x24.
T3i has enough resolution for good 16x24. If you wanted better, clearer and sharper pictures, a better lens would have made more sense than a new DSLR with a consumer grade super zoom. More megapixels will only allow you to crop more. There are lots of great photographers still using 6mp cameras (check the Pentax Pro gallery for example)

QuoteOriginally posted by CindyV Quote
I see that Nikon is coming out with a new 18-300
Which will be of pretty much equal IQ as the Tamron/Sigma/Pentax/Sony/... Paired with a body which will be of similar IQ as the other guys. You will never win if you are thinking this way. A Nikon sticker doesn't mean you'll have a Pro quality, better than everything else lens... They too make crappy lenses

One last thing. I cannot wrap my head around is that even though Canon is Canon and Pentax is Pentax, they're both DSLR of very similar design. They don't work differently, ergonomics are slightly different but when it comes down to taking pictures, they're similar. I had a Sony, a few Pentax, a Panasonic, shot and still shoot film... Girlfriend has a T4i and a Sony... and besides button location and the way settings are changed, I can switch cameras all day without changing how I shoot. All DSLR works the same way and honestly, there isn't all that much that is different between brands when you stay within the same price range.

It's not like Pentax are doing thing differently. You found out that the K-3 has a terrible, unacceptable and so sub-par auto-focus system that it is amazing that Pentax are still in business (according to youtube). Anyone who shoots Pentax will agree that Canikon/Sony are faster in some cases regarding AF but Pentax is far from being sub-par, especially the K-3. I just got a K7 yesterday and even if it's 3 generations behind the K-3 the AF is more than adequate for day-to-day shooting. Paired with a similar lens (50mm) I can't say that the T4i is all that much better. T4i will give me many more "in focus" pictures when snapping photos of my dog running than the K7 or the K5 but more often than not, AF will lock on the wrong part of the dog, or or the grass or trees in the back... more shots in focus but not more keepers...

Your last photo is very puzzling to me. Shooting a moving subject, handheld at 1/13, at 300mm even with VC is quite a challenge. I attribute the very little water which is in focus to plain luck, not camera AF or lens or whatever. Also I'm very intrigued by the fact that there is indeed something in focus... At 1/13 you shouldn't have anything sharp, not with moving water, you should get motion blur. (even more so since the "rock" in the top left is blurred more than what the DoF would do)

When I learnt photography, a basic rule of thumb that was given to me was that if I wanted to capture "frozen" motion, I needed three or four digits (1/500 or 1/1000) ... (Another one was when you get down to two digits (1/60), hold your breath, steady yourself and relax, and in the single digits (1/8), get a tripod)
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