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04-07-2014, 12:25 AM   #1
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K3 jpeg sooc nr

I received this Weekend my new K3 to replace my "old" K5 which gave me a lot of fun during 2 years.
This new model is nervous, responsive with the new SAFOX XI (as fast as MULTICAM D7000) .
I shot often with jpeg (SOOC) but since i use K3 i realise quality decrese deeply already from 400 iso (so blotchy!!!).
I unselected NR in the menu but no improvement.
Compared with a RAW processed in LR, there is a HUGE difference in term of quality and details!!!
Before with my K5 i could use easily the Jpeg in processing camera (sooc) until 1600 ISO. Not anymore with the K3.
Probably it s the price to pay with the new 24 MP sensor!
Excepted this "detail", Ricoh did a major step ahead with K3!


Last edited by KX5; 04-10-2014 at 07:35 AM.
04-07-2014, 07:38 AM   #2
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Hmm I think some time ago there was a thread about the in-camera NR on the K-3. Some complaints and workarounds were discussed. Don't remember the conclusion, though
04-07-2014, 11:47 AM   #3
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Megapixel Myth.....There comes a point in each sensor where cramming more megapixels into it will have the adverse effect of decreased light gathering creating more noise. Possibly the Pentax ASP-C is maxxed at 16MP.
04-07-2014, 03:20 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
Megapixel Myth.....There comes a point in each sensor where cramming more megapixels into it will have the adverse effect of decreased light gathering creating more noise. Possibly the Pentax ASP-C is maxxed at 16MP.
I'd disagree with the latter part of that statement (though I agree with former, theoretically) based on simple experience. I can pull out crops from the K-3 I'd have never dreamed of before. Period.

04-07-2014, 04:21 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by chickentender Quote
I'd disagree with the latter part of that statement (though I agree with former, theoretically) based on simple experience. I can pull out crops from the K-3 I'd have never dreamed of before. Period.
My comment was explaining to the OP the factor of adding more megapixels to a sensor at some point creates noise, re-read my post I don't believe I mentioned anything about detail resolution, so disagree all you want.

There are a ton of articles and consumer examples to back my post up regarding the creation of noise with a sensor by upping the megapixel count which is the downside to manufactures doing it. The upside to the addition of megapixels is higher resolution detail and with today's cameras and processing software it is easier to remove the noise without losing as much detail but that still doesn't take away from the higher ISO noise that one will notice at first when a higher ISO photo is downloaded, so it is a trade off.

Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 04-07-2014 at 04:34 PM.
04-07-2014, 04:43 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
My comment was explaining to the OP the factor of adding more megapixels to a sensor at some point creates noise, re-read my post I don't believe I mentioned anything about detail resolution, so disagree all you want.

There are a ton of articles and consumer examples to back my post up regarding the creation of noise with a sensor by upping the megapixel count which is the downside to manufactures doing it. The upside to the addition of megapixels is higher resolution detail and with today's cameras and processing software it is easier to remove the noise without losing as much detail but that still doesn't take away from the higher ISO noise that one will notice at first when a higher ISO photo is downloaded, so it is a trade off.
I opened my comment with agreement about the noise factor. I simply said I don't believe their sensor is maxed out at 16megapixel... and I was talking about the over sensor IQ overall. Also in my experience, deselecting NR completely made for DRASTIC improvement. Yes - i know there is plenty of talk about this out there - I'm just voicing my experience, that's all.
04-07-2014, 08:40 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by KX5 Quote
I received this Weekend my new K3 to replace my "old" K5 which gave me a lot of fun during 2 years.
This new model is nervous, responsive with the new SAFOX XI (maybe not faster than my MULTICAM D7000) .
I shot often with jpeg (SOOC) but since i use K3 i realise quality decrese deeply already from 400 iso (so blotchy!!!).
I unselected NR in the menu but no improvement.
Compared with a RAW processed in LR, there is a HUGE difference in term of quality and details!!!
Before with my K5 i could use easily the Jpeg in processing camera (sooc) until 1600 ISO. Not anymore with the K3.
Probably it s the price to pay with the new 24 MP sensor!
Excepted this "detail", Ricoh did a major step ahead with K3!
This was investigated a while back. The problem is that the default 'High-ISO NR' settings are too aggressive. Try creating a custom setting so that NR is off until 1600 or so and start with low NR for 3200 and 6400 then medium up from there. I think 'Slow shutter speed NR' can also be a problem, so you can try turning that off too.
04-07-2014, 11:00 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by jhmos Quote
This was investigated a while back. The problem is that the default 'High-ISO NR' settings are too aggressive. Try creating a custom setting so that NR is off until 1600 or so and start with low NR for 3200 and 6400 then medium up from there. I think 'Slow shutter speed NR' can also be a problem, so you can try turning that off too.
There is no NR used . The blotchy appearence starts @ 400 iso even if you unable this option.

04-09-2014, 03:20 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by KX5 Quote
There is no NR used . The blotchy appearence starts @ 400 iso even if you unable this option.
I have not seen that myself, but then I don't use jpeg much. Sounds like an anomaly though. I'll have a look using my K-3.
04-10-2014, 07:40 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by jhmos Quote
I have not seen that myself, but then I don't use jpeg much. Sounds like an anomaly though. I'll have a look using my K-3.
Not anormal. My K3 has the last firmware 1.03!
It's just sad to know jpeg sooc has been forgotten by Ricoh engineers.
Excepted that problem, it works very well!
04-10-2014, 08:38 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by KX5 Quote
Not anormal. My K3 has the last firmware 1.03!
It's just sad to know jpeg sooc has been forgotten by Ricoh engineers.
Excepted that problem, it works very well!
HUH??? How has jpeg sooc been forgotten when you can specify in camera how much can be applied for removal at standard ISO's for jpegs just like other Pentax dslr's. We all know with raw there isn't any applied. So Is there slightly higher noise with the K3's 24mp sensor than the 16 mp Pentax's due to the added pixels, based on what I have read and seen examples of sure, but along with that is higher resolution hence the trade off of adding more mp's to an existing sized sensor... Noise has always been a factor with Asp-c sensors for years so I don't know what it is your expecting. It is well known If one wants more mp's with less noise at higher ISO's then one would need to move to a full frame or bigger digital sensor. No offense intended but It isn't Ricoh's fault when we decide to stay with an ASP-C sensor and it's noise factor, after all we are the decision maker's on what we choose to deal with in our equipment, the good and not so good .

Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 04-10-2014 at 08:57 AM.
04-10-2014, 08:51 AM   #12
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K5 kept better details until 800 iso and even 1600 iso was not too bad.
K3 jpeg sooc processing is so much agressive that you loose details even at low iso (400 iso and more). That is not a good job because NR is applied without possibility to adjust it in the menu (NR=off doesn't help).
Of course more pixels= more noise.
But i hoped Pentax could make a better job.
RAW processing gives another life to K3 fortunately!!

PS: Pentax could correct it for sure in a next firmware (reducing agressive NR).

Last edited by KX5; 04-10-2014 at 08:59 AM.
04-10-2014, 09:24 AM   #13
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I don't own a K3 and I rarely shoot in jpeg anyway so I can't say anything regarding it's aggressive sooc processing of jpegs. I do know that adding MP's without increasing the size of the sensor is going to create more noise at lower ISO and have dealt with that with other Asp-C systems. When I do shoot a few jpegs with my cameras I import them into ACR or Topaz Denoise in CS6 and deal with it that way. .. Highpass and Unsharp mask when needed is my best friend....LOL
04-10-2014, 09:43 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
I don't own a K3 and I rarely shoot in jpeg anyway so I can't say anything regarding it's aggressive sooc processing of jpegs. I do know that adding MP's without increasing the size of the sensor is going to create more noise at lower ISO and have dealt with that with other Asp-C systems. When I do shoot a few jpegs with my cameras I import them into ACR or Topaz Denoise in CS6 and deal with it that way. .. Highpass and Unsharp mask when needed is my best friend....LOL
This is a good way to correct noise in Jpeg indeed.
Ricoh politic tends to correct noise directly by the in-camera processing which is not a professionnal approach-meaning: you shoot jpeg? So you're not a professionnal! Let us make the job!
i don't agree. Sometimes we have good reasons to use Jpeg sooc. Even for a professionnal!
04-10-2014, 10:42 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by KX5 Quote
This is a good way to correct noise in Jpeg indeed.
Ricoh politic tends to correct noise directly by the in-camera processing which is not a professionnal approach-meaning: you shoot jpeg? So you're not a professionnal! Let us make the job!
i don't agree. Sometimes we have good reasons to use Jpeg sooc. Even for a professionnal!
Again Huh? I don't think politics has anything to do with it..LOL There isn't a dslr out there that doesn't give you the option to shut off the in camera jpeg noise reduction completely. So I don't see how you figure Ricoh is forcing anyone to use it as you are trying to indicate with your statement.. It is even the users choice to custom select, from low to high, how much is applied to any given ISO from 80 (my K5 lls) to 51200 through the high ISO reduction menu custom setting or to shut it off and deal any with noise in ones processing if one is not happy through their experience with how the cameras noise reduction is applied.. It would seem to me if a manufacturer wasn't that concerned about "Professionals" using jpeg it wouldn't give them that much latitude with customization or even give the ability to shut it off. It seems to me a professional would be able to figure out what in camera settings works best for their uses and which to use in post processing. Of course I don't consider myself a professional, just a 55 year slr/dslr enthusiast so what do I know.

Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 04-10-2014 at 11:46 AM.
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