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04-11-2014, 09:57 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
However, since all cameras are apparently judged against a hypothetical standard set of needs imputed from DPR's correct or imagined bias in favor of AF speed on a subject moving quickly towards the camera, a Pentax camera can not and will not at this time receive an accurate review at DPR.
As you noted, the review itself was pretty complete and, I believe, properly balanced, particularly in regards to the low-pass filter emulation. As for the points difference between the K-3 and the D7100, I believe that the bulk of that is from the value section. The D7100 is less expensive at a similar performance point.

As for the AF test, the approaching object case is pretty standard. I remember a K-5 review on this site (falconeye?) where this was done using approaching cars.


Steve

04-11-2014, 10:38 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
...so how did DPR come up with this quirky statement?
For some reason they are pushing the idea of "DSLRs are based on outdated dinosaur technology" and "mirrorless is the future" like crazy.

Having an optical viewfinder that gives one access to the scene with the speed of light (try panning even with the best EVF) and without white balance issues, is apparently not a "major respect" as far as DPReview is concerned.

The limitations imposed by the Fuji X-T1's manual controls do not appear to be a major drawback to DPRreview either.

Having said that, in the DPReview preview to the X-T1, the latter receives quite a bit of criticism for a number of things. Rightly so, AFAIC, but still DPReview are not holding back here. Sadly, the criticism is then softened by stating that every camera has some issues, whereas in recent Pentax camera reviews they always sneak in backhanded remarks to soften praise they had to award.
04-11-2014, 10:44 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
For some reason they are pushing the idea of "DSLRs are based on outdated dinosaur technology" and "mirrorless is the future" like crazy.
To Fuji or Oly and to a lesser degree Sony the potential replacement market is the entire currently-installed base of dSLR's. If you are Canon, Nikon or Pentax the market is the installed base of your mount, plus whatever you can steal from the other two.

Fuji and Oly and Sony m,ight pay pretty good money to help DPR make that secular declaration.
04-11-2014, 10:46 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
As you noted, the review itself was pretty complete and, I believe, properly balanced, particularly in regards to the low-pass filter emulation. As for the points difference between the K-3 and the D7100, I believe that the bulk of that is from the value section. The D7100 is less expensive at a similar performance point.

As for the AF test, the approaching object case is pretty standard. I remember a K-5 review on this site (falconeye?) where this was done using approaching cars.


Steve
They are pretty close in price, considering the K3 is newer. B and H has the K3 for 1290 and the D7100 for 1140. I would compare cameras based on price rather than on semi pro versus mid-level (what is the difference really?).

04-11-2014, 10:52 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The D7100 is less expensive at a similar performance point.
Doesn't your value statement emasculate all the comparatively expensive benefits of a Pentax? Isn't that just exactly what I've been saying? There's more than one path to that similar performance point - but Pentax starts with a handicap because they take the Road Less Traveled. Well, yes, life is difficult. I get that - makes me enjoy what I have even more and keeps me from complaining over there. But DPR isn't serving the real needs of anyone with thier false assumptions.
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
As for the AF test, the approaching object case is pretty standard. I remember a K-5 review on this site (falconeye?) where this was done using approaching cars.
Isn't my entire point that the standard is externally determined, having absolutely nothing to do with my needs and uses for a dSLR? Who decided that's the standrd for AF evaluation and why does it matter? When I see a car coming at me I generally move away from its path, not the contrary.

As I've written here and elsewhere, to combat a Different approach it is first necessary to 'Other' anyone who is Different - who denies the accepted Standard.

Well I won't be 'Othered', which is why I so rarely go to DPR.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-11-2014 at 10:58 AM.
04-11-2014, 11:16 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
How on earth can that not be considered a 'Pro'. It's a huge, definitive pro. Perhaps they'll modify the summary adding it if approached about it
The same "Pros" point had been missing from the K-5 II(s) review as well, but Shawn Barnett added it after I enquired about it.

Hopefully, Richard Butler will do the same.

I've made a post in the "K-3 review now published" thread. I had posted a comment to the K-3 review as well, but I can see how it can get easily get lost there.
04-11-2014, 11:27 AM   #52
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The Price Is Right?

Well, I've managed to stay away from the thread so far, but anytime DPR mangles human logic this badly, it's difficult.
Are they really saying the D7100, 70D and K-3 aren't in the same category? Semi-pro, advanced, what?
Aren't all three the respective APS-C flagship models?
Didn't DPR rate and compare the K-3 against the Canon and Nikon models as equals throughout the review, as we would expect? In addition to being flagship models, they're all around 24mp CMOS, 6-8 fps, $1100-$1300 USD, highest ISO range (in class), best V/F, takes all options like screens, BG's,etc.
The top dog in this class.
If DPR can't figure out a less-obvious way to move the bar (and, conspiracy fans, why would they do that?) for their pals with the deep pockets, maybe Simon isn't as smart as he thinks. Even Nikon (and possibly, Canon) can't be happy having their best crop-format DSLR's demoted in such a belated and insincere fashion, for such a petty gain. A few months of haranguing and trolling (there, hopefully not here!) for the kicks and clicks and slowly feed in the missing K-3 'Pros' they overlooked. Always respond to respectful requests, delete everyone else.
Maybe by then C/N will release a newer, higher-spec (any spec!) model and all will be well again. Wanna' bet?
JMO,
Ron
04-11-2014, 11:46 AM   #53
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Dang! You would think that we are supposed to take the review personally. I looked at both the D7100 and K-3 and guess which one is headed to my house. I read the DPR K-3 review and it confirmed my impression that the K-3 is the functionally equivalent to the Nikon product, better in some, but with less capable AF and about $150 more money.

Soooo...which camera is on its way to my house (ordered before the review came out)?

Silly me, I ordered a K-3* and for no other reason than the Nikon felt cheap in the hand and that I don't need the better AF. No, my shelf full of lenses did not enter into the decision and neither did my long history on this site. And no, I did not even consider the Canon products...I am not into videography and their cameras have the ergonomics of a mixmaster. The Sony A7 did make the short list, but I was not able to find one in-store to look at. No, not even BestBuy had one.


Steve

* I was planning on waiting until prices dropped, but Adorama's recent bundle was just too good to pass up. It was like watching a Sunday morning TV Infomercial..."But wait, we will include, at no additional cost, a genuine Pentax grip and that's not all!!!..."

04-11-2014, 04:42 PM   #54
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For all that DPR screwed up in the review, the resulting score is still good. Would it have been better if they reviewed these three cameras based on the same set of standards?
I truly believe that a reviewer that takes their job seriously, with a set of standardized tests, who tries to review with disregard for personal bias, would rate the K-3 higher than the competition. But I cannot know for sure. That said, the score is STILL good. For all the accusations of Canikon bias, and acceptance of money for better reviews, the K-3 is STILL well rated. It still won gold and still got a score that at least matched the D70. They even put it in a higher category than the Canikons. I think if they were really dead set against Pentax, or if they actually did take bribes for better reviews. The resulting K-3 review would have been worse.
04-11-2014, 04:58 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by geomez Quote
Let's see...
K-5 beats D7000 on DPR.
A few years later, D7100 beats K-3.
K-3 is a more significant upgrade from it's predecessor than D7100.
I don't get it.
Yeah I saw that too.... Whats more apparently the K-5 has better autofocus than the K-3 if you compare the two. Ha.
04-11-2014, 05:05 PM - 1 Like   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
still at 83% vs D7100 at 85% and on par with 70D at 83%, so in the end, DPR is saying D7100 is better among all APS-C DSLR....
The D7100 and 70D were judged in a lower mid-level "enthusiast" category wheres the K-3 was judged in the "semi-pro" section; currently the only aps-c DSLR in there. Total BS that allowed them to give it a lower number. Most people just see the % score and look no further. That site is so obviously underselling Pentax that it's almost criminal.

Translation: The D7100 is a great mini-bus whereas the K-3 is a pretty good Lamborghini camera. That's about as logical as I can be about the BS that was that review.

Last edited by bossa; 04-11-2014 at 05:28 PM.
04-11-2014, 06:32 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax, then, didn't design a camera to meet your needs.
Actually, they did, and you're still missing my point.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Doing so was not their intent. Pentax designed a camera to meet my needs. K3 meets my needs far better than any other camera available.
There's nothing intrinsic about their design that precludes class-leading AF. It's not an either-or situation, they're not saying the OVF on the Ricoh GR was lacking. Even if they WERE talking about something like that, an either-or situation, it's good that they remind their readers that there are limits with the Ricoh GR because it has no viewfinder.

You aren't really DPR's core audience. Let's say they scored it at 60%, or they scored it at 100%. You'd buy what you wanted either way.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In reality the only real problem with the review is the problem with all reviews - an assigned numerical value to the camera so that it can be ranked against other cameras. The body of the review is fairly accurate (excepting the lack of attention given to several differentiating Pentax features, as discussed above) - it is the numeric rating value that is confounding.
No argument here. They assigned a score based on a summary of assumptions about their assumed core audience.
04-11-2014, 06:46 PM   #58
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Richard Butler from DPReview has responded to my suggestion and has added
"In-body stabilization works with all lenses"
to the "Pros" list.

Good on him!

The formerly last "Pros" point "Good battery life" is gone now.

You win some, you lose some.
04-11-2014, 06:51 PM   #59
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Well, I am still baffled as to why they threw in the Fuji at the last moment, as if it was the standard to beat? It just came out of the blue? I can see comparisons with the Nikon or Canon, but why with a mirrorless Fuji?

It reminded me of years ago when I was shopping for a Jeep Wrangler. I read Consumer Reports evaluation, and it seemed reasonable enough, until I got to the last paragraph and they ridiculed the Jeep as not having the smooth ride, quick acceleration, or inside details in styling as the Nissan Maxima. Hello! Where the hell did that come from???

Regards!
04-11-2014, 08:35 PM   #60
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"The K-3 is a nice camera, sure, but it really lacks the stopping power of the Mossberg 12 gauge."
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