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04-28-2014, 01:53 AM   #1
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Remote flash not working

I have a Yongnu Yn560-II, which works on my K3, and I can also trigger it remotely using the on board camera flash.
I also wanted to use it for back lighting people and bought a Hahnel Combi. Like a lot of kit it does not state Pentax compatability, but I was informed that Pentax DSLR's can use Canon stuff.
Bad news, the combi won't work the flash or the camera and I am now clueless.
Can any one help me here?
Glosterbill

04-28-2014, 02:12 AM   #2
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To optically trigger the YN-560 the camera must be in normal flash mode and the flash should be in S2 mode. It won't work with the onboard flash in wireless mode.
04-28-2014, 05:43 AM   #3
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Thanks for that, the flash does work optically, but I had hoped the combi would enable a wireless trigger! Obviously I got it wrong?
glosterbill
04-28-2014, 06:24 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by glosterbill Quote
Thanks for that, the flash does work optically, but I had hoped the combi would enable a wireless trigger! Obviously I got it wrong?
glosterbill
Any flash that suports wireless trigger from the camera must understand the P-ttl protocol

So unless your flash says PTTL and wireless it will not work in any inteligent manner with the cameras own flash.

04-28-2014, 06:24 AM   #5
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Unfortunately, no one, even Pentax, manufactures an RF trigger that is compatible with the Pentax flash system (P-TTL).

If you want automation, optical P-TTL is your only wireless option.

If you want manual control, which many prefer for off-camera operation anyhow, the Cactus V6 has just been released. Main discussion thread here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/258624-cactus...er-review.html
There's a link in the thread to a very thorough review.
04-30-2014, 02:26 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
Unfortunately, no one, even Pentax, manufactures an RF trigger that is compatible with the Pentax flash system (P-TTL).

If you want automation, optical P-TTL is your only wireless option.
Not true

Aokatec - Products
04-30-2014, 06:58 AM   #7
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No, the Aokatecs do not support the P-TTL protocol. Rather they support the Wireless optical P-TTL, which is a different protocol, and only incidentally, at that. The Aokatecs do not natively implement the protocol, rather they proxy the optical signals. So at best, it is a booster for the optical path.

What this means is that the Aokatec triggers still require flash units, on both ends, which support the Wireless P-TTL protocol. Standard P-TTL flashes will not work with the Aokatec triggers, except as a manual-only trigger. Furthermore, the Aokatecs cannot be used with cameras such as the Q or K-01 which do not support wireless P-TTL at all; adding a Wireless P-TTL flash such as the AF540FGZ as a master/controller on those cameras will not work either, since the body must be wireless capable.
04-30-2014, 08:05 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
No, the Aokatecs do not support the P-TTL protocol. Rather they support the Wireless optical P-TTL, which is a different protocol, and only incidentally, at that. The Aokatecs do not natively implement the protocol, rather they proxy the optical signals. So at best, it is a booster for the optical path.

What this means is that the Aokatec triggers still require flash units, on both ends, which support the Wireless P-TTL protocol. Standard P-TTL flashes will not work with the Aokatec triggers, except as a manual-only trigger. Furthermore, the Aokatecs cannot be used with cameras such as the Q or K-01 which do not support wireless P-TTL at all; adding a Wireless P-TTL flash such as the AF540FGZ as a master/controller on those cameras will not work either, since the body must be wireless capable.
You seem confused what a trigger does and is ,there is nothing but wireless P-ttl if the body doesn't support wireless P-ttl (Q) then no trigger or anything can make it work

I use Aokatec triggers and can assure you they work with standard P-ttt flashes in full P-ttl mode whatever makes you think they don't.?

There not booster but a bridge it takes emf signals (HV from flash drive) converts them to rf send them to the RX'r which converts them back to optical to feed the flashes.

each RX'r can drive two flashes

As the connection is brands agnostic they will work with any TTL protocols Pentax, Nikon . Sony . Pentax etc

04-30-2014, 11:27 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
there is nothing but wireless P-ttl if the body doesn't support wireless P-ttl (Q) then no trigger or anything can make it work
Yes, the Aokatecs rely on the Pentax Wireless P-TTL protocol, but no one (including Pentax and Aokatec) makes an actual RF-triggered flash, which I think is along the lines of what the OP was looking for.

There is no technical reason why someone could not develop a true RF trigger, where a transmitter fits on the hotshoe of the camera and receiver fits on the hotshoe of a P-TTL-capable flash unit, to proxy a WIRED P-TTL connection. The Nikon RF system does not use any optical triggering of any kind. Same for the triggering and power modulation of the Cactus V6, although that does not support automation.

With a true RF trigger, those would work directly on a Q or K-01, without having to tell the camera anything about Wireless operation, master/controller mode, etc.

QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
I use Aokatec triggers and can assure you they work with standard P-ttt flashes in full P-ttl mode whatever makes you think they don't.?
Better check that. You cannot trigger an AF200 FG or AF160FC. The Aokatecs require Wireless P-TTL, they have no way of communicating P-TTL. These are different protocols, and not just at the physical layer.

QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
You seem confused what a trigger does and is
Seriously? Sorry if I've offended you regarding your choice of trigger. I think they are a good product which fills a gap in the Pentax lineup. But there is room for much more improvement in terms of a solution which doesn't rely on fragile little wired optical transceivers, that are velcroed or gaffer tapped to the front of both the camera and the flash unit.

I'm really not sure how this spun out like this, because I thought we were essentially telling the OP the same thing.

Last edited by Tanzer; 04-30-2014 at 12:22 PM.
05-01-2014, 12:28 AM   #10
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Hi Tanzer,

I'm not offended I also use a number of other triggers.

The AF200 FG or AF160FC are not standard P-ttl flashes and just like the Q do not support wireless P-ttl so irrelevant of transmission method they will not fire.

You can easily prove this put your camera in wireless p-ttl , put either flash on the camera (wired) and they will not fire correctly.

This was my point on you not understanding what a trigger does and is.

Wireless P-ttl is a communication protocol if the device doesn't understand the language it doesn't not matter how you transmit the data to the device it will not function.

RF, Optical , EMF or even a cable, non wireless flashes ( AF200 FG or AF160FC) will not fire under wireless P-ttl control.

What you appear to be looking for is a P-ttl copier so you can have the camera in standard p-ttl mode and transmit that a distance to some remote p-ttl flash, This is never going to happen as Pentax have a system with considerably more flexibility to that is able to handle multiple flashes with individual ratios amongst them they call it wireless P-ttl

And there are triggers that will happily convey this data stream over RF to any standard P-ttl Flash (obviously one that support Wireless P-ttl !!!)

As you can see no visible light output is required to fire the Flashes in P-ttl .....ie the data is transmitted via radio frequencies

The last one to show I own many more flashes and triggers than those under discussion

---------- Post added 01-05-14 at 08:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by glosterbill Quote
I have a Yongnu Yn560-II, which works on my K3, and I can also trigger it remotely using the on board camera flash.
I also wanted to use it for back lighting people and bought a Hahnel Combi. Like a lot of kit it does not state Pentax compatability, but I was informed that Pentax DSLR's can use Canon stuff.
Bad news, the combi won't work the flash or the camera and I am now clueless.
Can any one help me here?
Glosterbill
Hi

if you only want to fire the non Pentax flash remotely then you should have brought the Nikon variant, The reason is though canon 'cables' match Pentax the hot show doesn't fit and will/might interfere.

I don't know your Yongnu Yn560-II but suspect its a single pin hot shoe ?

If so look up Class A's reviews of the RF60 (the bit about the V6 triggers)

Cactus RF60 Review - Handling - Pentax Camera Forums

Theses are ideal and probably the best option if you do not which to go wireless P-ttl

The will probably give you as much control as wireless P-ttl but with less automation.

If you just want cheap remote triggering I'd go for these at the moment
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Commlite-G430N-Grouping-Flash-Trigger-7-Channels-T...item5d4287ebde
order the 1c cable with them if you need it
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Last edited by awaldram; 12-23-2015 at 08:32 AM.
05-01-2014, 03:05 AM   #11
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Thanks, Awaldram and Tanzer for your very erudite response to my call for help: but, you're on a different planet and I haven't understood a word! I thought, (or was mislead to believe) that if I mounted a Hahnel combi wireless transmitter on my K3, then stood my Yongnu 560-ii on the matching combi wireless receiver, I would trigger a remote flash, up to 100 metres, it says on the tin.
But, nothing happens.
I can remote trigger the yongnu flash optically with the on board flash, but that's all.
There is provision for a cable connection 'tween the transmitter and the K3, but the one that came with the combi has the wrong plug for the K3.
The idea of having remote wireless flash coupled with remote wireless camera operation was appealing, but I'm now thinking of just giving up unless I can be sure of getting the right kit for the project within budget.
Thanks
Glosterbill

Last edited by glosterbill; 05-01-2014 at 03:07 AM. Reason: mispelling
05-01-2014, 03:22 AM   #12
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Ok I have a yn560-II and to remote fire with a wireless trigger I use DSLRKIT PT-08XTH works well
Search aliexpress and can be picked up cheap
05-01-2014, 07:07 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
The AF200 FG or AF160FC are not standard P-ttl flashes and just like the Q do not support wireless P-ttl so irrelevant of transmission method they will not fire.

You can easily prove this put your camera in wireless p-ttl , put either flash on the camera (wired) and they will not fire correctly.

Wireless P-ttl is a communication protocol if the device doesn't understand the language it doesn't not matter how you transmit the data to the device it will not function.

RF, Optical , EMF or even a cable, non wireless flashes ( AF200 FG or AF160FC) will not fire under wireless P-ttl control.
I would not characterize the AF200FG or AF160FC as non-standard P-TTL, rather quite the opposite; but other than that, everything you've said here is exactly what I've been saying.

QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
This was my point on you not understanding what a trigger does and is.
Cheers.

QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
What you appear to be looking for is a P-ttl copier so you can have the camera in standard p-ttl mode and transmit that a distance to some remote p-ttl flash, This is never going to happen as Pentax have a system with considerably more flexibility to that is able to handle multiple flashes with individual ratios amongst them they call it wireless P-ttl
I think this is what the OP is looking for. This is why he bought a trigger that mounts on the hotshoe, and a receiver that the flash mounts on, which will work on the Canon TTL system, without any additional add-ons.

Note that the Wireless P-TTL protocol does not add any functionality over Wired P-TTL. The Wired P-TTL has always long supported individual ratios between units, for example when using the 5P cable to interconnect multiple units.

QuoteOriginally posted by glosterbill Quote
Thanks, Awaldram and Tanzer for your very erudite response to my call for help: but, you're on a different planet and I haven't understood a word! I thought, (or was mislead to believe) that if I mounted a Hahnel combi wireless transmitter on my K3, then stood my Yongnu 560-ii on the matching combi wireless receiver, I would trigger a remote flash, up to 100 metres, it says on the tin.
But, nothing happens.
I can remote trigger the yongnu flash optically with the on board flash, but that's all.
There is provision for a cable connection 'tween the transmitter and the K3, but the one that came with the combi has the wrong plug for the K3.
The idea of having remote wireless flash coupled with remote wireless camera operation was appealing, but I'm now thinking of just giving up unless I can be sure of getting the right kit for the project within budget.
Thanks
Glosterbill
Unfortunately, you cannot fire the Youngnuo with any available RF trigger, even the Aokatec triggers, except in manual mode.

Assuming you are looking for automation, you need a Wireless P-TTL flash, which are generally quite expensive. You can get more triggering range using the Aokatecs, but you still need both a flash unit (and camera body) which support the Wireless P-TTL protocol. You are all set with the K-3, but the Youngnuo will not work.

---------- Post added 05-01-14 at 10:12 AM ----------

Sorry, are you looking for automated flash control, or just manual triggering?
05-01-2014, 10:18 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
I think this is what the OP is looking for. This is why he bought a trigger that mounts on the hotshoe, and a receiver that the flash mounts on, which will work on the Canon TTL system, without any additional add-ons.
What gave you that ides He nought a non- ttl flash and non-ttl trigger (it does not suppot Cannon TTL) and wanted P-ttl !!


Can I use a Combi TF with TTL-only flash guns?

No, it must be possible to set the flash gun to manual mode to use the Combi TF.

His issue as I see it he brought manuls triggers in Canon because the 'web' said that was the best compatability. Unfortenately the Canon Wake up pin is the Pentax squelch pin so if wired correctly a Canon hotshoe will stop a Pentax flash functioning an vice versa.

So in this case the transmitter will not fire as its forced into standy by the Pentax camera (assumption).

Nikon hot shoes are more Pentax compatable but Canon cable sets are Penatx compatable

Only optical ttl RF triggers can be multi brand.

---------- Post added 02-05-14 at 06:31 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by glosterbill Quote
Thanks, Awaldram and Tanzer for your very erudite response to my call for help: but, you're on a different planet and I haven't understood a word! I thought, (or was mislead to believe) that if I mounted a Hahnel combi wireless transmitter on my K3, then stood my Yongnu 560-ii on the matching combi wireless receiver, I would trigger a remote flash, up to 100 metres, it says on the tin.
But, nothing happens.
I can remote trigger the yongnu flash optically with the on board flash, but that's all.
There is provision for a cable connection 'tween the transmitter and the K3, but the one that came with the combi has the wrong plug for the K3.
The idea of having remote wireless flash coupled with remote wireless camera operation was appealing, but I'm now thinking of just giving up unless I can be sure of getting the right kit for the project within budget.
Thanks
Glosterbill
As you already have the combi , and it should work it looks like you have the wrong product ot its broke.

this is what you should have

Combi TF for CANON

Compatible Camera Models:

EOS 1200D / 1100D / 1000D / 650D / 600D / 550D /500D / 450D / 400D / 350D / 300D /
70D / 60D / 50D / 40D / 30D / 20D / 20Ds /
10D / 7D / 6D / 5D / 5D Mark II / 5D Mark III
1D / 1DX / 1DC / 1Ds Mark III / 1Ds Mark IV
SX50HS
Powershot G10 / G11 / G12 / G15 / G1X Mk II
Pentax Pentax K-5 II / K-5 IIs / K-5 / K-7 / K10 / K20 / K50 / K100 /
K200 / K500
Samsung GX10 / GX20

Part No. 1000 760.0

Does the flash fire if you press the 'test' button on the transmitter ?

perhaps if you tell us how you have the camera/flash configured we can help

you should not have the camera in an kind of 'wireless' mode.

Does the flash fire if you press the 'test' button on the transmitter ?
if yes
on camera set flash to 'on' turn dial to 'X' attach transmitter
does flash fire now when shutter activated.?

Last edited by awaldram; 05-01-2014 at 10:34 PM.
05-02-2014, 06:20 AM   #15
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If you're not looking for any kind of automation, well then you definitely don't want the Aokatecs. I think we are both trying to help, but that was a non-sequitur.

So starting from scratch, please try the manual button on the transmitter and tell us the results.
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