Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-26-2014, 04:16 AM   #31
Kiwi Pentaxian
NZ_Ross's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Timaru
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,265
QuoteOriginally posted by tempelorg Quote
The results here are all so erratic. I just re-tested with my 18-135 and found that the lens name is still not shown in RAW images, whereas K-Three shows that it does for him.
Yet logic says it is a computer program, so there must be a pattern, or sequence of behaviour. Getting to the bottom of the trigger is going to be the trick

05-26-2014, 04:40 AM   #32
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Munich
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 168
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
Yet logic says it is a computer program, so there must be a pattern, or sequence of behaviour. Getting to the bottom of the trigger is going to be the trick
NZ_Ross, note that I had made a mistake in my last post - I had first written that I still had an empty Lens name with my RAWs but it turned out that those were empty fields of my A 50mm lens, not the 18-135. I got confused. So I've now corrected my post, stating that the 18-135 does not exhibit the original issue any more. It would be nice if you could re-test on your end as well, provided you have recently installed all the latest OS X updates.
05-26-2014, 04:43 AM   #33
Kiwi Pentaxian
NZ_Ross's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Timaru
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,265
QuoteOriginally posted by tempelorg Quote
NZ_Ross, note that I had made a mistake in my last post - I had first written that I still had an empty Lens name with my RAWs but it turned out that those were empty fields of my A 50mm lens, not the 18-135. I got confused. So I've now corrected my post, stating that the 18-135 does not exhibit the original issue any more. It would be nice if you could re-test on your end as well, provided you have recently installed all the latest OS X updates.
I am on the road again, so it may be the weekend before I get a chance to do any testing. I have my K3 and HD 55-300 with me, but it is a pretty busy week, with long work days. I will have a look when I get the opportunity and post the results here.
05-26-2014, 04:43 AM   #34
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Munich
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 168
Original Poster
BTW, another EXIF issue is, as we can see in K-Three's screenshots, that the "Exposure Program" is "unknown" (due to special codes that Pentax uses exclusively). That's another issue that I've already reported to Apple, but those are obviously all low prio issues and might never get fixed.

05-26-2014, 12:07 PM   #35
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pugetopolis, WA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 280
I did some more testing and found a difference in my original post of the EXIF,
I retested my Pentax lenses on all my bodies (K3, K5, K200) I shot RAW+ with all of them, so same image recorded as both JPG and RAW.
Most of my Pentax lenses reported fine in both image formats (35LTD macro, 100D-FA macro, 18-55 (1st-gen), 18-135, 18-250) the only one that did not report was the DA50/1.8 (Plastic Fantastic),
It did not report on any body, in either Apple software, it does report the focal length, but not the lens ID.

I went back to try and figure out why those images that I posted the EXIF from earlier did not report lenses in the JPG.
I realized that what had happened was that I originally shot in RAW alone, and then had to convert to JPG in-camera to share with someone before I got home to download. Not something I commonly do.
Odd why some information is getting stripped or not reported through this process.

Also,
None of the serial numbers of my cameras in the EXIF match the numbers printed on the bottom of the camera, does that make sense to anyone?

I found a terminal command reader, "EXIFTool" by Phil Harvey,
I'm not fluent in Terminal commands, so took me a bit to get it working, but found that the DA50 is reported in the EXIF data, in the same spot as all the other lenses, so why does the Apple reader not find it?
Also in looking at the files I converted in-camera, the lens information is still in the EXIF data, but the Apple reader is not seeing it, it appears to be in the same fields as it is in the RAW files


The Apple reader never gets the maximum aperture of my zooms right either,
It used to reported the 18-250 as having a 1.8 maximum (!), now it's reporting a blank field, the 18-135 it's reporting at 11.07,
The correct information appears to be in the EXIF file, per EXIFTool, Apple must not be reading it right,

The issue as I'm seeing it is not body dependent, but seems to be lens related. Either Apple or Pentax (or both?) is not following a standard here,
i don't have anything but Pentax equipment to test, does someone have other brand gear to look at and see if the Apple reporting is as random for other brands?
05-26-2014, 02:44 PM   #36
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,502
QuoteOriginally posted by K-Three Quote
I found a terminal command reader, "EXIFTool" by Phil Harvey
ExifTool is a great utility, but I would caution against making assumptions regarding its output. The "tags" used by the program are always not the same as the names for actual Exif tags. They represent an additional level of abstraction specific to ExifTool that provide some sort of user experience. For example, ExifTool has a tag called "LensModel" "LensType", though there is no "LensModel" "LensType" field in the Exif. There are numerous places in the maker section that might contain codes mapping to a particular lens identity and those are used to determine the value displayed for LensModel "LensType". The short answer is that if ExifTool displays data, the data are obviously there and should be discoverable by other software. OTOH, if ExifTool does not display data, that does not mean that the data are not there.

To confirm capabilities for a particular lens or camera, Phil Harvey and his minions have created extensive documentation detailing what the program supports. It is worth your time to find the pertinent sections in the docs and see how the ExifTool output is generated and also how product-specific all of this is. Phil Harvey has provided an incredibly useful service to the photographer community, one that requires a substantial amount of continuing work and research to maintain.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 05-28-2014 at 09:54 AM.
05-26-2014, 10:06 PM   #37
Veteran Member
awaldram's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hampshire
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 720
QuoteOriginally posted by K-Three Quote

The issue as I'm seeing it is not body dependent, but seems to be lens related. Either Apple or Pentax (or both?) is not following a standard here,
i don't have anything but Pentax equipment to test, does someone have other brand gear to look at and see if the Apple reporting is as random for other brands?
Exif data is a series of encoded numbers.
every field has a standardised reference on it use depnding on exif version supported by the writter.

The Exif reader parses these numbers and convertes them into human readable form

i.e
lens = Sigma
ID = 3 0

The program may further parse this data using lookup tables to deliver lens by name
e.i
lens = Sigma 50-500

The same is true for all fields

If your program cannot resolve ID to Name or the lookup table is wrong/missing then the issue is with your program not your camera.

It not about standards but about complete data for all valid Exif numbers per field.
05-27-2014, 04:00 AM   #38
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Munich
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 168
Original Poster
Okay, so the fact that K-Three's JPEGs didn't show the lens name is due to the fact that they're not the originals from the camera but were generated by some other software (Aperture), which failed to include the lens ID, somehow. If that's what happened, that'd be a separate issue, though one that's disturbing as well - a RAW-to-JPEG conversion should not drop such metadata.

So it appears, unless NZ_Ross finds otherwise when he finds time to do another test, that the original issue of this thread has been fixed by Apple recently, at least.

Unrelated oddities that remain, are the mismatching camera serial number, the unknown "Exposure Program" values (which I reported already to Apple) and the odd "A Series" lens identification (this last one is clearly caused by the camera, not by wrong interpretation of an EXIF reader).

The camera serial number appears to be rather random when shown by Apple's apps. I've got a lot of RAWs that show a zero here, while others show numbers such as 1212696648 and 1482246216. OTOH, when checking them with exiftool, I get consistent numbers ("Internal Serial Number": 7028149 and "Serial Number": 2576399 - and this matches the serial number printed on the body's bottom). So, here, again, it appears to be another bug in Apple's software.


Last edited by tempelorg; 05-27-2014 at 04:13 AM.
05-27-2014, 07:20 AM   #39
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,502
QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
It not about standards
It is definitely not about standards The lens information is part of the proprietary MakerNotes part of the Exif and may vary even between models from the same manufacturer! It is a moving target for the software makers.


Steve

---------- Post added 05-27-14 at 07:35 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tempelorg Quote
Unrelated oddities that remain, are the mismatching camera serial number, the unknown "Exposure Program" values (which I reported already to Apple) and the odd "A Series" lens identification (this last one is clearly caused by the camera, not by wrong interpretation of an EXIF reader).
Without becoming overly technical, these issues are probably also a problem with the reading software or some other agent "downstream" from the image download from the camera. It is not particularly obvious, but the MakerNotes section of the Exif is not a tidy list of name-value pairs in plain text. What is there depends on the maker and often enough the data are in binary format with the start/end of the various fields being determined by offset from either the section start or the Exif header. Editing any section of the Exif in any way (insertion or reordering of fields) may change the off-set and lead to a misread of the existing information, so it is important to take care with the choice of editors and tools.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 05-27-2014 at 07:45 AM.
05-27-2014, 07:50 AM   #40
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Munich
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 168
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Without becoming overly technical, these issues are probably also a problem with the reading software or some other agent "downstream" from the image download from the camera...
Why are you bringing this up here? I made my above statements with the certain knowledge of the EXIF format and its implications. You may remember that it was me who provided a tool to "fix" the K-3's DMG files to make them readable by Apple's software before Apple provided a fix. So, no need to educate me on it. Your comment seems to only add more vagueness to it, from my view, confusing others. For instance, the last part about "corrupt the existing information" does not apply to any of my statements above because none of them are about files modified after written by the camera.

If you have a particular doubt about what I wrote that's not just a general "be careful" reminder, please point it out, though. Otherwise, please do not assume that others make mistakes before you have even verified that they're wrong. I had to fight the same in the mentioned thread about the HSS bug in the K-3 a few weeks ago - initially everyone assumed I could only be wrong, no one taking me seriously. I resent that, especially if it keeps happening.

Until then, I stand by my statements that I had even explained in more tech detail than you just did:

* The K-3 put different Lens ID codes (sometimes 2-0, other times 2-215) in the files for the same lens.
* The codes for some of the Pentax Exposure Program modes are not yet decoded by Apple's software (IIRC, Lightroom got some of them wrong as well, but I found no way to tell Adobe of such bugs).
* The Apple software doesn't read the serial number from the EXIF data correctly.
05-27-2014, 08:06 AM   #41
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,502
QuoteOriginally posted by tempelorg Quote
Otherwise, please do not assume that others make mistakes before you have even verified that they're wrong.
Nobody is assuming anything. I am sorry that offense was taken where none was intended. While you may have certain knowledge (your words), I have certain doubts. If I had wished to point out "mistakes" and do so with insult, I would have been much less subtle.


Cheers
05-27-2014, 09:30 AM   #42
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2012
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,728
I believe this issue may have been fixed in either OS X 10.9.3 or Digital Camera RAW Compatibility Update 5.05, both released on May 15. Beforehand, Aperture would not display the lens used on my K-30 when viewing the JPEG file despite the lens info being displayed when viewing the RAW file (I will often shoot RAW+). AFAIK, this was the case no matter which of my four lenses were on the camera.

Post update, Aperture is now displaying the lens used when viewing the JPEG files, too. One wonky caveat... the JPEG EXIF for my Sigma lens lists a possible four Sigma lenses used. Strangely, the RAW EXIF simply picks one of the four but the wrong one (selected the 17-70 F2.8-4 DC Macro when it's really the 10-20 F4-5.6 EX DC). The Sigma behavior is well documented here already, though.

Last edited by IchabodCrane; 05-27-2014 at 07:35 PM. Reason: clarity
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
adobe lightroom, aperture, apps, camera, da, data, dslr, exif, exiftool, field, id, k-3, k-5, k3, lens, lens name, lenses, lr, pef, pentax k-3, porst, sigma, tamron, tests, type
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New K3 used DA*16-50 does not work tyrepeddler Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 25 03-20-2014 06:52 PM
Does Pentax make the sensor for K3? Ilovemypentax Pentax K-3 31 12-28-2013 01:02 PM
How does one make the film roll not sensitive to light? LeDave Pentax Film SLR Discussion 11 11-12-2012 04:39 AM
Error Bug: image insertion in lens reviews does not work top-quark Site Suggestions and Help 1 11-04-2012 12:03 PM
K110D will not take picture id built in flash is 'up' modelmaker Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 5 05-15-2012 11:30 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:42 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top