K-3, AF.S Focus-Priority question

ChrisA · 06-07-2014, 12:45 AM

AF lens on camera, body set to AF:

With AF.S and Focus-Priority set, the shutter doesn't release unless the camera is giving focus confirmation, as expected.

AF lens on camera, body set to MF:

With AF.S and Focus-Priority as above, the shutter releases whether there's focus confirmation or not.

Firmware 1.03.

Why the inconsistency?

muzicantini · 06-07-2014, 12:47 AM

It is supposed to work that way.

ChrisA · 06-07-2014, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by muzicantini

It is supposed to work that way.

Is it documented anywhere?

muzicantini · 06-07-2014, 01:07 AM

Well, I don't know about documentation but that's the logic. When you use manual focus te confirmation is only an assistant, it shouldn't interfere with the timing of the shutter release. The other option is focus catch, which can be done with manual focus lenses - you press the shutter and it shoots as soon as it confirms focus lock.

ChrisA · 06-07-2014, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by muzicantini

Well, I don't know about documentation but that's the logic. When you use manual focus te confirmation is only an assistant, it shouldn't interfere with the timing of the shutter release. The other option is focus catch, which can be done with manual focus lenses - you press the shutter and it shoots as soon as it confirms focus lock.

Yes, and if the Focus-Priority selection prevented OOF shutter release with the body set to MF, Focus Catch would work with AF lenses as well.

Given that they've given us Release Priority as an option, it seems a pointless restriction to disable the effect of Focus Priority with the body set to MF.

VisualDarkness · 06-07-2014, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by ChrisA

Yes, and if the Focus-Priority selection prevented OOF shutter release with the body set to MF, Focus Catch would work with AF lenses as well.

Given that they've given us Release Priority as an option, it seems a pointless restriction to disable the effect of Focus Priority with the body set to MF.

Well, then you wouldn't be able to take manual focused pics that the camera thinks is oof, goes completely against the thought of manual settings. If you got lenses with a mf switch on the lens you can do that though.

ChrisA · 06-07-2014, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by VisualDarkness

Well, then you wouldn't be able to take manual focused pics that the camera thinks is oof, goes completely against the thought of manual settings. If you got lenses with a mf switch on the lens you can do that though.

Yes you would. That's what Release Priority allows you to do.

That's what I meant by:

Originally posted by ChrisA

Given that they've given us Release Priority as an option, it seems a pointless restriction to disable the effect of Focus Priority with the body set to MF.

VisualDarkness · 06-07-2014, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by ChrisA

Yes you would. That's what Release Priority allows you to do.

That's what I meant by:

Still, that would require you to do a lot of menu diving if you want Focus-Priority when using AF (the standard) and having a fully manual mf option. For me I don't have any problems at all with the things you mentioned as most of the my commonly used lenses got MF/AF switches so I got every option easily available if set to focus priority.

aleonx3 · 06-07-2014, 05:17 AM

There is no inconsistency here. If you set AF.S to focus priority, that means you are relying (or using) the AF mechanism of the camera, therefore, the camera will act accordingly. If you switch the focus mechanism to MF, you are not using the camera's AF system mechanism, therefore, the AF.S or AF.C setting does not apply, same goes for catch-in-focus feature.

stevebrot · 06-07-2014, 08:30 AM

Manual focus is manual focus. The ability to get shutter release at any time is why we use that setting. I believe that the functionality you are wanting is catch-in-focus in AF mode, but that is only available with manual focus lenses or AF lenses that have a MF/AF switch on the lens.

Steve

jhmos · 06-08-2014, 06:28 AM

I think it is an inconsistency. If the focus priority setting is going to be ignored in combination with some other setting (such as MF), it should at least be greyed out when that setting is in effect. There is a similar problem when setting the "AF Button" mode. In AF1 mode the AFS focus priority is respected, whereas in AF2, the focus priority setting is ignored

John.

stevebrot · 06-08-2014, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by jhmos

I think it is an inconsistency. If the focus priority setting is going to be ignored in combination with some other setting (such as MF), it should at least be greyed out when that setting is in effect. There is a similar problem when setting the "AF Button" mode. In AF1 mode the AFS focus priority is respected, whereas in AF2, the focus priority setting is ignored

John.

The OPs complaint is that the camera allows shutter release in MF mode when the subject is not in focus. The focus priority setting is a red herring.

Steve

VisualDarkness · 06-08-2014, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by jhmos

I think it is an inconsistency. If the focus priority setting is going to be ignored in combination with some other setting (such as MF), it should at least be greyed out when that setting is in effect. There is a similar problem when setting the "AF Button" mode. In AF1 mode the AFS focus priority is respected, whereas in AF2, the focus priority setting is ignored

John.

But you say it yourself, it's MF and not AF. MF mode is all in all made to circumvent the AF and therefore it's logical that AF settings don't affect MF.

ChrisA · 06-08-2014, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Manual focus is manual focus. The ability to get shutter release at any time is why we use that setting. I believe that the functionality you are wanting is catch-in-focus in AF mode, but that is only available with manual focus lenses or AF lenses that have a MF/AF switch on the lens.

Yeah I know, but there's no reason why that has to be the case.

They could choose to have the CiF switch work for AF lenses too with the body switched to manual.

It's a 'nice to have', for sure, but so are a lot of things that they've implemented quite nicely.

stevebrot · 06-08-2014, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA

Yeah I know, but there's no reason why that has to be the case.

They could choose to have the CiF switch work for AF lenses too with the body switched to manual.

It's a 'nice to have', for sure, but so are a lot of things that they've implemented quite nicely.

As a configuration setting, perhaps. For general use, I prefer to do the focusing when the camera is in MF mode. If I want focus confirm I simply listen for the beep. The best of both worlds, in my opinion. I suppose I might be interested in having CiF with my AF Sigma macro lens, but I am not sure it would be more effective than simply attempting to lock focus the regular way.

Steve

06-07-2014, 12:45 AM	#1
ChrisA Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 393	K-3, AF.S Focus-Priority question AF lens on camera, body set to AF: With AF.S and Focus-Priority set, the shutter doesn't release unless the camera is giving focus confirmation, as expected. AF lens on camera, body set to MF: With AF.S and Focus-Priority as above, the shutter releases whether there's focus confirmation or not. Firmware 1.03. Why the inconsistency?

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06-07-2014, 12:47 AM	#2
muzicantini New Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 23	It is supposed to work that way.

06-07-2014, 01:04 AM	#3
ChrisA Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 393 Original Poster	Originally posted by muzicantini It is supposed to work that way. Is it documented anywhere?

06-07-2014, 01:07 AM	#4
muzicantini New Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 23	Well, I don't know about documentation but that's the logic. When you use manual focus te confirmation is only an assistant, it shouldn't interfere with the timing of the shutter release. The other option is focus catch, which can be done with manual focus lenses - you press the shutter and it shoots as soon as it confirms focus lock.

06-07-2014, 01:13 AM	#5
ChrisA Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 393 Original Poster	Originally posted by muzicantini Well, I don't know about documentation but that's the logic. When you use manual focus te confirmation is only an assistant, it shouldn't interfere with the timing of the shutter release. The other option is focus catch, which can be done with manual focus lenses - you press the shutter and it shoots as soon as it confirms focus lock. Yes, and if the Focus-Priority selection prevented OOF shutter release with the body set to MF, Focus Catch would work with AF lenses as well. Given that they've given us Release Priority as an option, it seems a pointless restriction to disable the effect of Focus Priority with the body set to MF.

06-07-2014, 04:04 AM	#6
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by ChrisA Yes, and if the Focus-Priority selection prevented OOF shutter release with the body set to MF, Focus Catch would work with AF lenses as well. Given that they've given us Release Priority as an option, it seems a pointless restriction to disable the effect of Focus Priority with the body set to MF. Well, then you wouldn't be able to take manual focused pics that the camera thinks is oof, goes completely against the thought of manual settings. If you got lenses with a mf switch on the lens you can do that though.

06-07-2014, 04:18 AM	#7
ChrisA Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 393 Original Poster	Originally posted by VisualDarkness Well, then you wouldn't be able to take manual focused pics that the camera thinks is oof, goes completely against the thought of manual settings. If you got lenses with a mf switch on the lens you can do that though. Yes you would. That's what Release Priority allows you to do. That's what I meant by: Originally posted by ChrisA *Given that they've given us Release Priority as an option*, it seems a pointless restriction to disable the effect of Focus Priority with the body set to MF.

06-07-2014, 05:11 AM	#8
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by ChrisA Yes you would. That's what Release Priority allows you to do. That's what I meant by: Still, that would require you to do a lot of menu diving if you want Focus-Priority when using AF (the standard) and having a fully manual mf option. For me I don't have any problems at all with the things you mentioned as most of the my commonly used lenses got MF/AF switches so I got every option easily available if set to focus priority.

06-07-2014, 05:17 AM	#9
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	There is no inconsistency here. If you set AF.S to focus priority, that means you are relying (or using) the AF mechanism of the camera, therefore, the camera will act accordingly. If you switch the focus mechanism to MF, you are not using the camera's AF system mechanism, therefore, the AF.S or AF.C setting does not apply, same goes for catch-in-focus feature.

06-07-2014, 08:30 AM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Manual focus is manual focus. The ability to get shutter release at any time is why we use that setting. I believe that the functionality you are wanting is catch-in-focus in AF mode, but that is only available with manual focus lenses or AF lenses that have a MF/AF switch on the lens. Steve

06-08-2014, 06:28 AM	#11
jhmos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne Posts: 111	I think it is an inconsistency. If the focus priority setting is going to be ignored in combination with some other setting (such as MF), it should at least be greyed out when that setting is in effect. There is a similar problem when setting the "AF Button" mode. In AF1 mode the AFS focus priority is respected, whereas in AF2, the focus priority setting is ignored John.

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06-08-2014, 08:41 AM	#12
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jhmos I think it is an inconsistency. If the focus priority setting is going to be ignored in combination with some other setting (such as MF), it should at least be greyed out when that setting is in effect. There is a similar problem when setting the "AF Button" mode. In AF1 mode the AFS focus priority is respected, whereas in AF2, the focus priority setting is ignored John. The OPs complaint is that the camera allows shutter release in MF mode when the subject is not in focus. The focus priority setting is a red herring. Steve

06-08-2014, 09:07 AM	#13
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by jhmos I think it is an inconsistency. If the focus priority setting is going to be ignored in combination with some other setting (such as MF), it should at least be greyed out when that setting is in effect. There is a similar problem when setting the "AF Button" mode. In AF1 mode the AFS focus priority is respected, whereas in AF2, the focus priority setting is ignored John. But you say it yourself, it's MF and not AF. MF mode is all in all made to circumvent the AF and therefore it's logical that AF settings don't affect MF.

06-08-2014, 09:45 AM	#14
ChrisA Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 393 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot Manual focus is manual focus. The ability to get shutter release at any time is why we use that setting. I believe that the functionality you are wanting is catch-in-focus in AF mode, but that is only available with manual focus lenses or AF lenses that have a MF/AF switch on the lens. Yeah I know, but there's no reason why that has to be the case. They could choose to have the CiF switch work for AF lenses too with the body switched to manual. It's a 'nice to have', for sure, but so are a lot of things that they've implemented quite nicely.

06-08-2014, 03:33 PM	#15
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by ChrisA Yeah I know, but there's no reason why that has to be the case. They could choose to have the CiF switch work for AF lenses too with the body switched to manual. It's a 'nice to have', for sure, but so are a lot of things that they've implemented quite nicely. As a configuration setting, perhaps. For general use, I prefer to do the focusing when the camera is in MF mode. If I want focus confirm I simply listen for the beep. The best of both worlds, in my opinion. I suppose I might be interested in having CiF with my AF Sigma macro lens, but I am not sure it would be more effective than simply attempting to lock focus the regular way. Steve