K-3 Mirror Flop Fix From Ricoh

PALADIN85020 · 06-18-2014, 01:12 PM - **1 Like**

OK. I just got back from picking up my K-3 at C.R.I.S. All my custom settings were intact, even though the camera was released and returned with no battery in it. I checked the date/time setting, and it was on target. At first I thought there was a problem with automatic focusing, but they had re-set the focus lever to manual. Simply flipping it back to autofocus cured that, although I had a momentary start.

They indicated the following on the receipt:

REPAIRED MIRROR OVERRUN PROBLEM
CLEANED AND CHECKED TO MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS

Needless to say, I will continue to use the camera in my normal manner, and if I encounter the mirror flutter problem again, I will be all over Pentax like gravy on a necktie, and will definitely let everyone here know. I do NOT anticipate any problems, trusting that the problem has been examined by the experts and that a fix has been applied. I would also hope that others who have had warranty service on the mirror flutter problem will sound off loud and clear if the problem re-occurs after the "fix."

Hope everyone else's experience with C.R.I.S. will be as satisfactory as mine. I think they did a good job.

John

rawr · 06-18-2014, 03:21 PM

Thanks again for keeping folks up to date with your service experience.

Originally posted by PALADIN85020

MIRROR OVERRUN

That's an interesting phrasing. The Wikipedia for overrun has entries that suggest mechanical things (eg freewheeling, overrun brake etc) or software ( ie buffer overflow, or buffer overrun). I guess since applying a firmware fix is the solution, it's software.

karro · 06-18-2014, 03:25 PM

"runaway" or "flopping" would sound unprofessional

danny09 · 06-18-2014, 10:16 PM - **1 Like**

Some of the early K5 also exhibited the mirror flop issue. When sent in to service those, the Pentax official comments always referred to it as 'Mirror Overrun'. What bothers me is why is Pentax not able to get to the bottom of this issue in successive models. I have seen this issue in Kx, Kr, K5 all the way up until K3!
Mine hasnt exhibited the mirror flop behavior but I feel disappointed that Pentax doesnt want to fix such a fundamental problem.

Last edited by danny09; 06-18-2014 at 10:28 PM.

markf · 06-20-2014, 09:15 PM

Buying a K-3 this weekend before the promotion ends with the free grip. I have to, since I've updated my signature.

**DRabbit** · 06-22-2014, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by danny09

Some of the early K5 also exhibited the mirror flop issue. When sent in to service those, the Pentax official comments always referred to it as 'Mirror Overrun'. What bothers me is why is Pentax not able to get to the bottom of this issue in successive models. I have seen this issue in Kx, Kr, K5 all the way up until K3!
Mine hasnt exhibited the mirror flop behavior but I feel disappointed that Pentax doesnt want to fix such a fundamental problem.

This has always been part of my concern as well... the fact that this problem -- or rather symptom -- has been seen in other Pentax models. I want them to get to the bottom of it so we don't have to worry about it cropping up with their next DSLR!

BTW, interestingly enough, three other K bodies I've shot in all the same conditions as the K3... they haven't had a single problem. The K5-II and K5-IIs do not seem to suffering mirror-flapping, at least not that I've run into with all three bodies getting VERY heavy use. The shutter on the K5-II died at 115,000 shutter actuations, but I completely expected that. Bother K5-IIs bodies I have are still performing excellently, and I'm probably at about 40,000 shutter actuations with each.

Clavius · 06-26-2014, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by danny09

Some of the early K5 also exhibited the mirror flop issue. When sent in to service those, the Pentax official comments always referred to it as 'Mirror Overrun'. What bothers me is why is Pentax not able to get to the bottom of this issue in successive models. I have seen this issue in Kx, Kr, K5 all the way up until K3!
Mine hasnt exhibited the mirror flop behavior but I feel disappointed that Pentax doesnt want to fix such a fundamental problem.

One of the best reasons for Pentax to go mirrorless instead then?

rodeknyt · 07-31-2014, 05:05 PM

Having had the mirror flap issue (twice in April), and seeing others report that firmware version 1.10 didn't fix it, I broke down and sent my K-3 to CRIS for the factory fix. I just got the camera back today. What I found interesting is that I sent it to them with firmware version 1.10 loaded. I got it back from them with firmware version 1.03 loaded. Since we can't go backward with firmware, obviously the fix does involve firmware at a level not available to the user. I have since reapplied firmware 1.10—hopefully, that won't step on whatever the "fix" is that they applied.

asharpe · 07-31-2014, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by rodeknyt

I sent it to them with firmware version 1.10 loaded. I got it back from them with firmware version 1.03 loaded. I have since reapplied firmware 1.10—hopefully, that won't step on whatever the "fix" is that they applied.

Oof. Having worked in software for 35 years, this worries me. You may want to call them up and ask them. If indeed it was a special version of the 1.03 firmware that fixed the problem, you certainly have overwritten it. If instead, however, it was another component that they replaced, they *may* have flashed the firmware back to 1.03 for testing. In that case, you're fine. But I think I'd ask them if it was a firmware fix or not. Amid all the apparent secrecy about what the fix actually is, perhaps they'd be willing to divulge just that piece of information. Especially since, if it indeed was a special firmware fix, you'd never be able to upgrade the firmware again, and they should have told you! For that reason alone, it seems probable that it is *not* a firmware fix, but another fix entirely (perhaps an ECR on one of the circuit boards).

PALADIN85020 · 08-01-2014, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by asharpe

Oof. Having worked in software for 35 years, this worries me. You may want to call them up and ask them. If indeed it was a special version of the 1.03 firmware that fixed the problem, you certainly have overwritten it. If instead, however, it was another component that they replaced, they *may* have flashed the firmware back to 1.03 for testing. In that case, you're fine. But I think I'd ask them if it was a firmware fix or not. Amid all the apparent secrecy about what the fix actually is, perhaps they'd be willing to divulge just that piece of information. Especially since, if it indeed was a special firmware fix, you'd never be able to upgrade the firmware again, and they should have told you! For that reason alone, it seems probable that it is *not* a firmware fix, but another fix entirely (perhaps an ECR on one of the circuit boards).

My understanding is that the "fix" was a separate firmware substitution for a particular integrated circuit that monitors the voltage to the mirror control circuit. This has to be applied at a repair facility, and bears no relationship to the user-upgradable firmware. I have had this "fix" at C.R.I.S. while my camera had firmware version 1.03; I have upgraded since to 1.10, and can thankfully report (knock on wood) that I have experienced no further mirror flop problems since the "fix" on 6/16/14. So far, so good with me.

John

stevebrot · 08-01-2014, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by PALADIN85020

My understanding is that the "fix" was a separate firmware substitution

Hmmmm...I heard it is an adjustment (change of clock/timer setting IIRC) made to a subsystem that required a utility that cannot be be properly packaged or leveraged by an end-user. Why they went back to v1.03 is anyone's guess.

Steve

asharpe · 08-01-2014, 08:26 PM

As I said, it seems quite secretive. Has anyone actually *asked* CRIS what they fixed? Are they under some sort of nondisclosure agreement with Ricoh to avoid divulging the actual issue? Conspiracy theorists want to know.

stevebrot · 08-01-2014, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by asharpe

As I said, it seems quite secretive. Has anyone actually *asked* CRIS what they fixed? Are they under some sort of nondisclosure agreement with Ricoh to avoid divulging the actual issue? Conspiracy theorists want to know.

It is obviously a conspiracy as those of us who are active on the "why I won't buy a K-3" thread know. The reach of the hociR knows no bounds and the ultimate destiny of Tokyo rests in the balance.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/239325-why-i-wont-buy-k3.html

Excuse me while I adjust my tin foil hat...

Steve

SteveB · 08-02-2014, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Hmmmm...I heard it is an adjustment (change of clock/timer setting IIRC) made to a subsystem that required a utility that cannot be be properly packaged or leveraged by an end-user. Why they went back to v1.03 is anyone's guess.

Steve

Perhaps they changed the whole board for a new revision that is already fixed, and these boards were produced when firmware 1.03 was current. Either that or their flop fixed firmware overwrites all the various firmwares in the camera.

stevebrot · 08-02-2014, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by SteveB

Perhaps they changed the whole board for a new revision that is already fixed, and these boards were produced when firmware 1.03 was current. Either that or their flop fixed firmware overwrites all the various firmwares in the camera.

Both are quite possible.

Steve

06-20-2014, 09:15 PM	#35
markf Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 63	Buying a K-3 this weekend before the promotion ends with the free grip. I have to, since I've updated my signature. Last edited by markf; 06-20-2014 at 09:29 PM.

07-31-2014, 05:05 PM	#38
rodeknyt Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: CA Posts: 47	Interesting Result Having had the mirror flap issue (twice in April), and seeing others report that firmware version 1.10 didn't fix it, I broke down and sent my K-3 to CRIS for the factory fix. I just got the camera back today. What I found interesting is that I sent it to them with firmware version 1.10 loaded. I got it back from them with firmware version 1.03 loaded. Since we can't go backward with firmware, obviously the fix does involve firmware at a level not available to the user. I have since reapplied firmware 1.10—hopefully, that won't step on whatever the "fix" is that they applied.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
K-3 mirror flutter - REPLY FROM RICOH	PALADIN85020	Pentax K-3 & K-3 II	95	12-21-2014 09:33 PM
Mirror Flop on the K-r - Plus additional strange issue	Stoogie	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	11	08-23-2013 01:19 PM
k-r mirror flop	guruh	Pentax K-r	2	07-03-2013 07:13 AM
k-r weird mirror flop - more details	Neil Manson	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	8	10-29-2012 02:41 AM
k-r mirror flop - more detective work	Neil Manson	Pentax K-r	5	07-24-2012 04:15 PM

06-18-2014, 01:12 PM - 1 Like	#31
PALADIN85020 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 442	OK. I just got back from picking up my K-3 at C.R.I.S. All my custom settings were intact, even though the camera was released and returned with no battery in it. I checked the date/time setting, and it was on target. At first I thought there was a problem with automatic focusing, but they had re-set the focus lever to manual. Simply flipping it back to autofocus cured that, although I had a momentary start. They indicated the following on the receipt: REPAIRED MIRROR OVERRUN PROBLEM CLEANED AND CHECKED TO MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS Needless to say, I will continue to use the camera in my normal manner, and if I encounter the mirror flutter problem again, I will be all over Pentax like gravy on a necktie, and will definitely let everyone here know. I do NOT anticipate any problems, trusting that the problem has been examined by the experts and that a fix has been applied. I would also hope that others who have had warranty service on the mirror flutter problem will sound off loud and clear if the problem re-occurs after the "fix." Hope everyone else's experience with C.R.I.S. will be as satisfactory as mine. I think they did a good job. John

06-18-2014, 03:21 PM	#32
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Thanks again for keeping folks up to date with your service experience. Originally posted by PALADIN85020 MIRROR OVERRUN That's an interesting phrasing. The Wikipedia for overrun has entries that suggest mechanical things (eg freewheeling, overrun brake etc) or software ( ie buffer overflow, or buffer overrun). I guess since applying a firmware fix is the solution, it's software.

06-18-2014, 03:25 PM	#33
karro Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Riga Photos: Albums Posts: 245	"runaway" or "flopping" would sound unprofessional

06-18-2014, 10:16 PM - 1 Like	#34
danny09 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 417	Some of the early K5 also exhibited the mirror flop issue. When sent in to service those, the Pentax official comments always referred to it as 'Mirror Overrun'. What bothers me is why is Pentax not able to get to the bottom of this issue in successive models. I have seen this issue in Kx, Kr, K5 all the way up until K3! Mine hasnt exhibited the mirror flop behavior but I feel disappointed that Pentax doesnt want to fix such a fundamental problem. Last edited by danny09; 06-18-2014 at 10:28 PM.

06-22-2014, 05:57 AM	#36
DRabbit Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 593	Originally posted by danny09 Some of the early K5 also exhibited the mirror flop issue. When sent in to service those, the Pentax official comments always referred to it as 'Mirror Overrun'. What bothers me is why is Pentax not able to get to the bottom of this issue in successive models. I have seen this issue in Kx, Kr, K5 all the way up until K3! Mine hasnt exhibited the mirror flop behavior but I feel disappointed that Pentax doesnt want to fix such a fundamental problem. This has always been part of my concern as well... the fact that this problem -- or rather symptom -- has been seen in other Pentax models. I want them to get to the bottom of it so we don't have to worry about it cropping up with their next DSLR! BTW, interestingly enough, three other K bodies I've shot in all the same conditions as the K3... they haven't had a single problem. The K5-II and K5-IIs do not seem to suffering mirror-flapping, at least not that I've run into with all three bodies getting VERY heavy use. The shutter on the K5-II died at 115,000 shutter actuations, but I completely expected that. Bother K5-IIs bodies I have are still performing excellently, and I'm probably at about 40,000 shutter actuations with each.

06-26-2014, 04:52 AM	#37
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by danny09 Some of the early K5 also exhibited the mirror flop issue. When sent in to service those, the Pentax official comments always referred to it as 'Mirror Overrun'. What bothers me is why is Pentax not able to get to the bottom of this issue in successive models. I have seen this issue in Kx, Kr, K5 all the way up until K3! Mine hasnt exhibited the mirror flop behavior but I feel disappointed that Pentax doesnt want to fix such a fundamental problem. One of the best reasons for Pentax to go mirrorless instead then?

07-31-2014, 08:11 PM	#39
asharpe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 221	Originally posted by rodeknyt I sent it to them with firmware version 1.10 loaded. I got it back from them with firmware version 1.03 loaded. I have since reapplied firmware 1.10—hopefully, that won't step on whatever the "fix" is that they applied. Oof. Having worked in software for 35 years, this worries me. You may want to call them up and ask them. If indeed it was a special version of the 1.03 firmware that fixed the problem, you certainly have overwritten it. If instead, however, it was another component that they replaced, they may have flashed the firmware back to 1.03 for testing. In that case, you're fine. But I think I'd ask them if it was a firmware fix or not. Amid all the apparent secrecy about what the fix actually is, perhaps they'd be willing to divulge just that piece of information. Especially since, if it indeed was a special firmware fix, you'd never be able to upgrade the firmware again, and they should have told you! For that reason alone, it seems probable that it is not a firmware fix, but another fix entirely (perhaps an ECR on one of the circuit boards).

08-01-2014, 11:40 AM	#40
PALADIN85020 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 442	Originally posted by asharpe Oof. Having worked in software for 35 years, this worries me. You may want to call them up and ask them. If indeed it was a special version of the 1.03 firmware that fixed the problem, you certainly have overwritten it. If instead, however, it was another component that they replaced, they may have flashed the firmware back to 1.03 for testing. In that case, you're fine. But I think I'd ask them if it was a firmware fix or not. Amid all the apparent secrecy about what the fix actually is, perhaps they'd be willing to divulge just that piece of information. Especially since, if it indeed was a special firmware fix, you'd never be able to upgrade the firmware again, and they should have told you! For that reason alone, it seems probable that it is not a firmware fix, but another fix entirely (perhaps an ECR on one of the circuit boards). My understanding is that the "fix" was a separate firmware substitution for a particular integrated circuit that monitors the voltage to the mirror control circuit. This has to be applied at a repair facility, and bears no relationship to the user-upgradable firmware. I have had this "fix" at C.R.I.S. while my camera had firmware version 1.03; I have upgraded since to 1.10, and can thankfully report (knock on wood) that I have experienced no further mirror flop problems since the "fix" on 6/16/14. So far, so good with me. John

08-01-2014, 05:00 PM	#41
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by PALADIN85020 My understanding is that the "fix" was a separate firmware substitution Hmmmm...I heard it is an adjustment (change of clock/timer setting IIRC) made to a subsystem that required a utility that cannot be be properly packaged or leveraged by an end-user. Why they went back to v1.03 is anyone's guess. Steve

08-01-2014, 08:26 PM	#42
asharpe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 221	As I said, it seems quite secretive. Has anyone actually asked CRIS what they fixed? Are they under some sort of nondisclosure agreement with Ricoh to avoid divulging the actual issue? Conspiracy theorists want to know.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-01-2014, 08:55 PM	#43
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by asharpe As I said, it seems quite secretive. Has anyone actually asked CRIS what they fixed? Are they under some sort of nondisclosure agreement with Ricoh to avoid divulging the actual issue? Conspiracy theorists want to know. It is obviously a conspiracy as those of us who are active on the "why I won't buy a K-3" thread know. The reach of the hociR knows no bounds and the ultimate destiny of Tokyo rests in the balance. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/239325-why-i-wont-buy-k3.html Excuse me while I adjust my tin foil hat... Steve

08-02-2014, 04:22 AM	#44
SteveB Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: U.K. Posts: 685	Originally posted by stevebrot Hmmmm...I heard it is an adjustment (change of clock/timer setting IIRC) made to a subsystem that required a utility that cannot be be properly packaged or leveraged by an end-user. Why they went back to v1.03 is anyone's guess. Steve Perhaps they changed the whole board for a new revision that is already fixed, and these boards were produced when firmware 1.03 was current. Either that or their flop fixed firmware overwrites all the various firmwares in the camera.

08-02-2014, 07:42 AM	#45
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by SteveB Perhaps they changed the whole board for a new revision that is already fixed, and these boards were produced when firmware 1.03 was current. Either that or their flop fixed firmware overwrites all the various firmwares in the camera. Both are quite possible. Steve