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06-23-2014, 06:09 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by lotech Quote
All Ks I used are weather sealed, but they all got fog at the top LCD when shooting in the rain this is not acceptable, there is no moving parts at that area why so hard to seal it well !? I am losing faith on Pentax how about you ?
It seems to me (unless I have overlooked something) that throughout this thread no one has addressed that fact that no camera and no lens with moving parts can be made air-tight.

Now, that also means that water vapour will always be present in one's system. And water vapour may and will condense as soon as the temperature falls below the dew point .As an amateur astronomer, I have quite often encontered such problems with my simple (non-dry-nitrogen-filled) eyepieces during a lon, humid summer night's observation.

Thus, 'dust- and water sealed' means that splashes of liquid water should not enter the body - and nothing more.

So, while I would not be - and feel entitled that I should not be - afraid of of a good deal of raindrops falling on my K-3, I would by instinct be afraid of condensation inside both camera and optics, if I were to shoot over extended time under constant rain and thus, in a high humidity environment.

So no, I have not (yet) begun losing faith in Pentax/Ricoh's WR technology.

06-23-2014, 07:16 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by lotech Quote
I read about the 'crazy mirror' thing when people taking interval shots, but I haven't done that on my K3, I just take normal shots in the rain, I did take intervals with my K5 without problem, and btw the K3 FW is 1.03.
Here's the thing - the crazy mirror flapping does not just occur during interval shots. It can occur in any drive mode, even regular single-shots. And it occurs with all firmware.

QuoteOriginally posted by lotech Quote
Beside the crazy mirror thing both the top LCD and the viewfinder display are jumping, and the shutter button not responsive, the power switch as well, I have to remove the battery to reset the camera.
These are all typical of crazy mirror-flapping symptoms. One guy even had his LCD display flicker with green lines during mirror-flapping. The camera goes completely unresponsive for a lot of people who run into the problem. The only way to get it to stop is to take the battery out. A few people have reported silent lockups as well, where the camera just freezes and none of the button works until the battery is taken out.

I'm not trying to say your issue wasn't caused by the rain... maybe it was or maybe it wasn't. But the crazy mirror-flapping lockup is definitely not caused by the rain, and from what you're describing, it sounds more like you ran into the mirror-flapping while shooting in the rain, as opposed to the rain being the problem.
06-23-2014, 08:09 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by lotech Quote
Thanks for the comments, and btw my primary lens is the DA* 16-50, it has no sign of condense on the glass but on the window. I know I should always play safe, but I feel uncomfortable if someone told me not to use an umbrella in the rain because it is unreliable ! or 'weather seal' was too strong a word Pentax to use, 'water resist' or 'splash and drizzle proof' would be more suitable, even better if an IP rating is provided.
Please cite an official Pentax statement or marketing material that your camera series is 'Weather Sealed.' The term is Weather Resistant, as shown in the video.
06-23-2014, 08:30 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Please cite an official Pentax statement or marketing material that your camera series is 'Weather Sealed.' The term is Weather Resistant, as shown in the video.
from Ricoh's website here: PENTAX - K-3
Fully Weather Sealed
With 92 special seals, the K-3 boasts a fully weather and cold proof design to resist water, fog, snow, sand, and dust, for top performance in extreme field conditions as well as in the studio.


06-23-2014, 08:33 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stone G. Quote
It seems to me (unless I have overlooked something) that throughout this thread no one has addressed that fact that no camera and no lens with moving parts can be made air-tight.

Now, that also means that water vapour will always be present in one's system. And water vapour may and will condense as soon as the temperature falls below the dew point .As an amateur astronomer, I have quite often encontered such problems with my simple (non-dry-nitrogen-filled) eyepieces during a lon, humid summer night's observation.

Thus, 'dust- and water sealed' means that splashes of liquid water should not enter the body - and nothing more.

So, while I would not be - and feel entitled that I should not be - afraid of of a good deal of raindrops falling on my K-3, I would by instinct be afraid of condensation inside both camera and optics, if I were to shoot over extended time under constant rain and thus, in a high humidity environment.

So no, I have not (yet) begun losing faith in Pentax/Ricoh's WR technology.

Yes you have missed something. Obviously you have not read my post, or others who have chimed in on this matter.

Stay safe and have fun.

Joe.

---------- Post added 06-23-14 at 10:48 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
from Ricoh's website here: PENTAX - K-3
Fully Weather Sealed
With 92 special seals, the K-3 boasts a fully weather and cold proof design to resist water, fog, snow, sand, and dust, for top performance in extreme field conditions as well as in the studio.

The keywords are "to RESIST water, fog, snow, sand, and dust,". The camera might be water sealed, but there are very few lenses, even those marked "WR" that can actually keep all of the elements out. Only those lenses that do not have any moving parts on the outside can be water sealed. Even focusing and zooming rings is a potential problem. Any dust or grit that gets in to these areas can grind against the seals and destroy them.
Stay safe and have fun.
Joe.
06-23-2014, 08:51 AM - 1 Like   #66
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Monochrome asked for a reference to specific material from Ricoh/Pentax that says it is weather sealed... I simply cited the source. Mince words all you want, but the bold headline says "Fully Weather Sealed". They are pretty clear to promote this as one of the benefits of the K3 (not to mention, a lot of their other cameras).

That's not to say the weather-sealing provides perfect protection, but there's a reasonable expectation against rain, snow, cold and dust with a weather-sealed body. To argue otherwise is just silly.

That said, I'm still not convinced the original poster's problem has anything to do with rain.
06-23-2014, 09:05 AM   #67
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I wonder what the actual WR failure rates in relation to the total installed base to see how it looks. I know others have said that they have read of incidents where a light drizzle has caused problems and failures and I will not dispute their findings and feel bad for them. I know that from here in the Philippines where I live, there are always extremely monsoonal downpours, almost a daily occurrence here this time of the year, one happened today, and with my K-30 and 18-55WR, I have never had a problem In my two years here. Now with that said, I do think of what the weather is and will be like for the day and plan accordingly. On sunny or dry days, I will most likely have my DA35 or my Tammy 18-200 as my walk around lens but if there is any chance of rain, I am always on my WR to be safe. As some have said, the SD or battery compartment doors though water resistant look that in time, integrity can be diminished in time and I would agree with that, but it is still much better than no water resistance at all. Of course, just with everything we use, we always look at specific situations to assure that we have the least chance of failure. As with all things cameras, I know not to change my lenses in a dust storm with my camera facing up because there is a greater chance that we will have dust in the sensor. Just as when I am shooting in the PI, in certain incidents where I am shooting and rain is getting so hard that I am completely drenched. I will look for shelter not because of my camera as much as it is for me. It is good at times to shoot, but if it is soo uncomfortable to be so wet, I wont want to keep shooting at that point and why ? All you will get is a picture of large drops and how good are the pictures in those situations. Now the batter compartment and SD card is sealed but some say it may not be resistant enough to keep it from getting wet but water flow down not up against gravity. I know that when I am in a lot of rain, I will make sure that the bottom of the camera is facing down, when I shoot verticals, I assure that the right side of the camera is facing down and I usually wipe the camera and body continually to not only wipe away the water to avoid internal water but also just to be able to see the LCD and lens because I cant see it in a down pour. Also, I don't ever look straight up at the sky when there is a downpour not because I am worried of water going into my zoom, it is because all I would get is a picture of just falling rain and nothing more, which is not going to be a keeper to me. in that condition. All in all, in my opinion and based on my experience in the PI, my K-30 is a great camera, I am never fearful of water failure based on basic knowledge of what you should and should not do within raining conditions, and I would never be worried shooting outside in the rain as long as I have my WR lens attached. I feel confident in it and Pentax WR systems. The soldier in the Afghanistan or Iraqi operation who took the youtube video shows how competent Pentax WR systems really are. I would take his advise only though because I would never try it to do it with my K-30.

Last edited by JimC1101; 06-23-2014 at 09:20 AM.
06-23-2014, 09:06 AM   #68
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From the Ricoh website: OVERVIEW OF WEATHER AND WATER RESISTANT PENTAX RICOH IMAGING CAMERAS AND LENSES

OVERVIEW OF WEATHER AND WATER RESISTANT PENTAX RICOH IMAGING CAMERAS AND LENSES | Ricoh Imaging Support

06-23-2014, 09:36 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
from Ricoh's website here: PENTAX - K-3
Fully Weather Sealed
With 92 special seals, the K-3 boasts a fully weather and cold proof design to resist water, fog, snow, sand, and dust, for top performance in extreme field conditions as well as in the studio.
The key is in the word "seal/sealed". The word simply means that there is a barrier. The reader may take it to mean whatever they wish. Other than that, Pentax uses the same terminology as Canon (7d), Nikon (D7100), and Sony (Alpha 77II) in regards to dust and water resistance. I would expect similar performance from all four makers. In regards to operational cautions:

From the K-3 user manual (p101): "Avoid contact with garbage, mud, sand, dust, water, toxic gases, or salt. These could cause the camera to breakdown. Wipe the camera to dry off any rain or water drops."

From the Nikon D1700 user manual (p318): "This product is not waterproof, and may malfunction if immersed in water or exposed to high levels of humidity."

Canon does not address water exposure except to say that water in the camera might cause a fire or electric shock hazard. Sony does not address water exposure except as relates to the on-board flash (water exposure may ruin it when open). Based on the user manuals for the four competitive cameras, Pentax has either the most realistic advice or the worst seals. I wonder if my K-3 will catch fire or present a shock hazard if water enters?


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-23-2014 at 09:43 AM.
06-23-2014, 09:42 AM   #70
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The weather sealing that Pentax has used on the camera body is not the problem. Although there may be weaknesses, failure here is not likely. The problem is in the type of lens you use. When using In the rain or dust, older lenses can cause serious problems with your camera. Even those lenses Mark WR, at least the one that I have should not be used in the rain or dust. My 18-135 WR lens acts as a bellows, every time I zoom in and out, It displaces air along with it. Moisture and dust can follows the air into the lens and then can be forced into the camera. DA* lenses or more Resistant to Water. and can safely be used In the rain for limited amount of time. The weak link is in the Lens. Using the wrong lens In a wet environment can damage your equipment.

Stay safe and have fun.
Joe.
06-23-2014, 09:46 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
That said, I'm still not convinced the original poster's problem has anything to do with rain.
I agree, though it would be hard to rule out without tearing into the camera looking for water.


Steve

---------- Post added 06-23-14 at 09:49 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
The soldier in the Afghanistan or Iraqi operation who took the youtube video shows how competent Pentax WR systems really are. I would take his advise only though because I would never try it to do it with my K-30.
I believe that the video was made by forum user heie.


Steve

---------- Post added 06-23-14 at 09:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by zelda_n64 Quote
From the Ricoh website: OVERVIEW OF WEATHER AND WATER RESISTANT PENTAX RICOH IMAGING CAMERAS AND LENSES

OVERVIEW OF WEATHER AND WATER RESISTANT PENTAX RICOH IMAGING CAMERAS AND LENSES | Ricoh Imaging Support
Thank for sharing the link. As mentioned in various posts above, I would take exception to Ricoh/Pentax marketing's use of words. "Water-tight" is not a term I would use to describe the seals on any of the access covers on either of my two Pentax bodies. Reliably water resistant is more along what what I would suggest.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-23-2014 at 09:55 AM.
06-23-2014, 10:12 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
from Ricoh's website here: PENTAX - K-3
Fully Weather Sealed
With 92 special seals, the K-3 boasts a fully weather and cold proof design to resist water, fog, snow, sand, and dust, for top performance in extreme field conditions as well as in the studio.
They use the word 'resist' in the text, not 'prevent,' (but the headline might imply more than mere resistance).
06-23-2014, 03:54 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by promacjoe Quote
The weather sealing that Pentax has used on the camera body is not the problem. Although there may be weaknesses, failure here is not likely. The problem is in the type of lens you use.
I'm inclined to agree with this. I've successfully used non-WR Pentax DSLRs in a light rain. That same amount of rain can be a danger to some non-WR lenses.
06-23-2014, 04:28 PM   #74
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uhmm.. I briefly went through the thread and actually didn't see OP's comment regarding which lens was used during the shoot. Which lens was it?
06-26-2014, 10:05 PM   #75
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Alrite I got the news from Pentax which is bad and ridiculous, they said water entered the camera from the bottom and damaged the main circuit board and the image sensor, they ask for $600 for repair this is robbing !!! I bought the camera less than 6mths. and never shoot in the rain until last week, it was a sudden shower and I shoot for about 30min., I did get shelter but still got wet, and the camera random lock up and got crazy mirror. Last time I dropped my K5 on the concrete and damaged the SR module, it was my fault so I paid $400 for repair, then I 'upgraded' to the K3. If they charge me $100 this time I will accept, and then I will sell the whole set and try my luck with Olympus, which also advertised as weather seal/resist, but no way to spend $600 for a almost new camera repair !! They never said it was my fault to shoot in the rain, but 'water entered from the bottom blah blah blah...'

I am writing a compliant to Ricoh, not because I want a free repair but to let them know how pi$$ed a loyal customer am I, and how wrong the way they marketed the camera. I completely lost my faith on Pentax, they made good film cameras and great lens, but they are dying.
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