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06-26-2014, 11:50 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The key is in the word "seal/sealed". The word simply means that there is a barrier. The reader may take it to mean whatever they wish. Other than that, Pentax uses the same terminology as Canon (7d), Nikon (D7100), and Sony (Alpha 77II) in regards to dust and water resistance. I would expect similar performance from all four makers. In regards to operational cautions:

I'd be inclined to agree with you if the WR claims were a small footnote at the bottom of the second page of the brochure, but it's not. They're front and center as a major feature of the product, and I suspect many cameras have been sold partly or primarily based on Pentax's WR claims.

06-27-2014, 04:10 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by zelda_n64 Quote
I once had a really nice water resistance watch which after about 5 years finally needed the batter replacing - upon taking it to an authorised dealer for battery replacement, I was advised that the water resistance seal could only be guaranteed if the battery replacement was carried out at the factory.

As I let the words swirl around, I asked 'why is that then, you are an authorised dealer service/repair centre), and although they were, they did not have the facilities or equipment to check/test and certify the sealing of the O ring within the watch. So I sent it off, it came back with a really nice check list showing condition, scratch mark location, etc. etc. It had been serviced, battery replaced, cleaned and returned to me with the seals checked/tested and with another year warranty on the seal & battery.

As for the Pentax K-3, I purchased this on the understanding that unlike my K-x, it wouldn't matter if it got a little wet as shown on one of the official promotional videos I watched : Le PENTAX K-3 : à vous de fixer les limites ! (version FR) - YouTube which clearly shows it being subjected to getting wet. If it cannot handle this, then it purely is a case of false advertising and misrepresentation.


Interesting video.


Reading the thread and the wide range of expectations regarding the effectiveness of the weather resistance/sealing/proofing...ooops that does look uncomfortably close to false advertising.
If they made it clear that you can take it out in those sort of conditions provided you don`t open the card door or the download cable flap or change the lens for the duration of the shoot otherwise all bets are off, then fair enough.
06-27-2014, 04:17 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by limpet Quote
Interesting video.


If they made it clear that you can take it out in those sort of conditions provided you don`t open the card door or the download cable flap or change the lens for the duration of the shoot otherwise all bets are off, then fair enough.
Isn't that a bit like the rumored American lady who sued her microwave oven manufacturer because nowhere in the instructions did it say she couldn't dry her dog in it !!!

Stupid is as stupid does.
06-27-2014, 04:24 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
Isn't that a bit like the rumored American lady who sued her microwave oven manufacturer because nowhere in the instructions did it say she couldn't dry her dog in it !!!

Stupid is as stupid does.
Yeah, I was being a bit facetious.
Although, did the microwave manufacturer provide promo videos showing what looks suspiciously like a dog being dried in the oven...sorry, facetious mode off...


Did you watch the video of the camera being sprinkled with water?

06-27-2014, 07:35 AM   #80
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I watched the video, and I didn't see a split second (but I guess I can process only that much frames per second), where the camera would be sprinkled with any of its parts open, so your claim that it should be working, if the lenses are changed during rain or it should perform with doors opened - it's kind of groundless, even if the actions mentioned may be a part of shooting process.

I didn't see it as a false advertising. if it was, I'm going to sue car manufacturers one by one, because I see only happy people with rich and prosperous lives in those, and by similar logic I deduct that I will be rich and prosperous all the time while owning the car, and that's not happening, you know!

and I still haven't heard, which lens did the OP use. was it sent in for evaluation as well?
06-27-2014, 08:06 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by karro Quote
I watched the video, and I didn't see a split second (but I guess I can process only that much frames per second), where the camera would be sprinkled with any of its parts open, so your claim that it should be working, if the lenses are changed during rain or it should perform with doors opened - it's kind of groundless, even if the actions mentioned may be a part of shooting process.

I didn't see it as a false advertising. if it was, I'm going to sue car manufacturers one by one, because I see only happy people with rich and prosperous lives in those, and by similar logic I deduct that I will be rich and prosperous all the time while owning the car, and that's not happening, you know!

and I still haven't heard, which lens did the OP use. was it sent in for evaluation as well?
It was not claimed during the video that the camera would be impervious to the weather if the card door, or the download cable cover was opened or the lens was changed and I don`t believe that anyone on this thread has yet claimed that it would be a reasonable expectation to make it so capable.
However, the video did appear to claim that the camera could be used in the rain, i.e. taking photos using the shutter button and perhaps by extension operating the front and rear control wheels.
If this is not the case then I would say that the promotional video could be reasonably considered misleading. After all, otherwise why show water on the promo at all.
I can`t say that Pentax have a legal case to answer but if the camera is not so capable I can understand if someone purchasing the camera with that expectation was disappointed. After all it is a significant portion of the Pentax marketing blurb.
In the spirit of full disclosure I have to say I don`t own either a K5 or a K3, and it`s unlikely that I will, although not because of the weather


All the straw man arguments about dogs in microwaves and fantasy rich people I think are merely obfuscation
06-27-2014, 08:12 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by limpet Quote
If they made it clear that you can take it out in those sort of conditions provided you don`t open the card door or the download cable flap or change the lens for the duration of the shoot otherwise all bets are off, then fair enough.
they didn't make it clear, but they didn't claim that it can or should be done, either, so, I guess I missed your point?..
in the context, what does it even mean - to make it clear, and how is it related to the original thread at all?

QuoteOriginally posted by limpet Quote
However, the video did appear to claim that the camera could be used in the rain, i.e. taking photos using the shutter button and perhaps by extension operating the front and rear control wheels.
and I have no reason to believe otherwise. again, I feel for the OP, but I missed the post where s/he told, which lens was used during the shoot. if the lens was not WR, water could seep in at the lens mount => "entered from below" => all the pain. but I admit, I'm speculating now and hopefully it will be resolved so everybody's happy.

Last edited by karro; 06-27-2014 at 08:21 AM. Reason: additional quote added + some typos
06-27-2014, 08:27 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by karro Quote
they didn't make it clear, but they didn't claim that it can or should be done, either, so, I guess I missed your point?..
in the context, what does it even mean - to make it clear, and how is it related to the original thread at all?



and I have no reason to believe otherwise. again, I feel for the OP, but I missed the post where s/he told, which lens was used during the shoot. if the lens was not WR, water could seep in at the lens mount => "entered from below" => all the pain. but I admit, I'm speculating now and hopefully it will be resolved so everybody's happy.
Sorry for the mis-understanding.
That was a post where I was being facetious ( as I admitted in the follow up post) . That was not a serious suggestion.
I must be more careful in the future.
It is obviously unreasonable to expect a camera to remain weather sealed while operating the card or battery door, or opening the download cable cover or changing a lens and I don`t seriously expect anyone on this site has such expectations. And I apologise if I gave that impression.


I think it is reasonable to expect the K3 in that promo to be able to be operated ( ie just operate the external controls) in the rain providing you don`t do any of the above.
If I`d bought one and it turned out to be not so capable I would feel entitled to be disappointed, as it is such a big selling point.
I`m not saying they are not excellent cameras, and again it is of no real consequence to me as it is unlikely that I will ever own one.
It`s just that the debate sparked my interest.
This is only my opinion.
I`m not trying to make enemies.

06-27-2014, 08:53 AM   #84
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ah. see, this is what happens when one of participants (read: karro) is not a native English speaker!

anyway, I see your point now; it is reasonable to believe that K-3 or any other weather resistant device will behave in a weather resistant manner. I hope the OP will be able to resolve the issue in a good way (if this was a WR lens used during the shoot).

karro, reaches for the peace pipe.
06-27-2014, 09:06 AM   #85
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I am keeping an eye on this development as I purchased the K-3 to be able to go to outdoor concerts and use the camera in inclement weather - something I have not done with the K-x. I would not change lenses or even dream of opening any of the doors on the body, I wouldn't even zoom in and out using the kit WR lens. I would set it up and take my pictures and not worry about a few rain drops.

The video link I posted on an early page I believe is the same for Australia, UK, WorldofDSLR posted the same promo video, in the video below the first couple of seconds show an advertising image of the wet K-3 and at 3.35 they show it wet on some pebbles and being sprayed with water implying that it can handle it.


As for Ricoh literature:

PENTAX DSLR seals are a story in themselves. Designed to be both lightweight and durable, PENTAX takes great care with engineering the seals and in the choice of seal materials. While access doors and ports on the camera body are manufactured from a flexible, tough rubber, the seams and joints on the body are protected with seals made from high-density foam rubber. This enables the seal system to tolerate temperature changes and still provide an effective barrier to water. To match these exceptionally well-protected cameras, PENTAX has created a series of lenses designed to deliver dependable, high-quality results in all types of adverse weather or environmental conditions.

Grouped into two categories according to the type of weather-resistant construction, both groups of lenses feature a level of protection from
weather not found in ordinary lenses. First are the PENTAX DA* (DA Star) lenses. Recognized for their outstanding image quality and advanced features, PENTAX DA* lenses handle harsh weather with ease. Because each part of a DA* lens that might contact the environment is tightly sealed, it is ideal for use in dusty or rainy conditions. PENTAX DA* lenses are categorized both dustproof and water resistant.

The next category of “all weather” PENTAX lenses is designated “WR”. These affordable lenses utilize a simplified weather-resistant construction (similar to the sealing technology used in DA* lenses) which makes it difficult for water to enter the lens. PENTAX WR lenses are categorized weather-resistant.


So is it marketing bollocks or did the OP have bad luck. If the K-3 cannot handle incremental weather as I would like to use the camera as stated above then I have made the wrong choice and Pentax/Ricoh will receive an email from me.
06-27-2014, 09:28 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by zelda_n64 Quote
did the OP have bad luck
This is the Internet, even if you were right beside the OP every time he took his camera out, how much weight should the rest of us give to his or your description of how he handled the camera? Show me an official picture from Pentax of a WR camera being submerged in water several times and then being operated immediately afterwards without any problems, and then we can debate if their marketing of weather resistance is corporate insanity. You don't release advertising without the legal department vetting it beforehand to make sure that any product performance claims aren't going to exposure the company to major liabilities. We aren't talking about a twentysomething who got seed money to buy pizza and some Google ads.
06-27-2014, 09:37 AM   #87
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(Water entered through the bottom)

Did the Pentax repair specify what caused water to enter the camera through the bottom? Sounds to me as if there is a crack in the bottom plate, the card door seals is compromised or there is some other type of non-spec fault in the lower part of the camera. If that is the fault of the camera, then the OP is entitled to complain. If that is the fault of mishandling (dropped camera cracked the base plate) or misuse (opened battery door and dunked camera) then Pentax has the stronger hand.

Of course, from the (limited) details on this thread we can only speculate.
06-27-2014, 09:43 AM   #88
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Odd how we may excuses for things like this

Previous contributors to this thread who said that the Pentax release and subsequent marketing for the K3 clearly positioned the camera as one that could be operated in heavy rain are correct - If you use the camera with a degree of care (i.e. not opening sealed doors or changing lenses in rain) and the camera suffers any ill effects Pentax could be forced to offer a free repair or taken to court if they couldn't prove the damage wasn't caused by negligence of the user - at least that would be the case in the UK.


You don't need an official WR rating like phones are coming out with now for this to hold up in court ... the marketing shows a camera being actively used in pouring rain ... they would have no legal standing at all. Even if Pentax released information to the market now saying that it wasn't to be used in rain and indicated the warranty wouldn't be honoured, anyone that purchased the camera before that communication would still be able to claim and succeed.


If the UK, advertising standards come down like a tonne of bricks on things like this if people make enough sense ... I can't argue for other regions.


Paul.
06-27-2014, 10:12 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by pgamble Quote
Even if Pentax released information to the market now saying that it wasn't to be used in rain
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
(Water entered through the bottom)
Following the trail, we have the OP getting warranty denied because water entered through the bottom. Was it raining up? Even if the OP had been holding the camera upside down to take pictures while it was raining, the seals for the battery door are likely to be sufficient to prevent water entering the camera. If the OP had left the camera sitting in a pool of water, or upside down for a period of time and used the camera without drying it off first (of left it turned on), then it is possible that moisture got into the electronics. Is Pentax required to account for all possible permutations of use/abuse in order to advertise a feature of its product? Or as Monochrome says above, the camera is not up to spec, either because of mishandling or a defective part, and moisture got to the electronics in a situation where it normally would not; does that make Pentax weather resistance claims bogus? Stretching one person's personal dissatisfaction with his purchase of a Pentax camera into illegal or immoral advertising is ludicrous.
06-27-2014, 10:35 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Following the trail, we have the OP getting warranty denied because water entered through the bottom. Was it raining up? Even if the OP had been holding the camera upside down to take pictures while it was raining, the seals for the battery door are likely to be sufficient to prevent water entering the camera. If the OP had left the camera sitting in a pool of water, or upside down for a period of time and used the camera without drying it off first (of left it turned on), then it is possible that moisture got into the electronics. Is Pentax required to account for all possible permutations of use/abuse in order to advertise a feature of its product? Or as Monochrome says above, the camera is not up to spec, either because of mishandling or a defective part, and moisture got to the electronics in a situation where it normally would not; does that make Pentax weather resistance claims bogus? Stretching one person's personal dissatisfaction with his purchase of a Pentax camera into illegal or immoral advertising is ludicrous.
Yes.
I think we can agree that using the K3 in a steady drizzle for half an hour under normal handling conditions should prove to be no issue at all.
If I had one I would have no qualms.
On the other hand, careless handling, dropping, standing in even a slight pool of water even just 1mm deep , thus immersing a seal, walking through a waterfall etc would just be asking for trouble.
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