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06-24-2014, 05:39 AM   #1
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Rumoured K-3 f/w update: diffraction correction and mirror flap improvement

This rumour has just appeared on digicame-info.com. I think this is a new source, so should be taken with a pinch of salt.

If true, the update will:
- Improve the mirror flapping issue
- Introduce diffraction correction

Original
K-3????????????????????????? - ????info

Google translate
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06-24-2014, 05:52 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
diffraction correction
This sounds interesting. I wonder what it is intended to do and how it would work.
06-24-2014, 05:53 AM   #3
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JPT: There is no need for rumors on the mirror-flapping issue. Pentax/Ricoh USA, CRIS and the service center in Germany have all confirmed there is a "base firmware" fix for people who have run into the issue. See here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/254464-k3-crazy-mirror-sic...ml#post2847808

Whether the article means user-installable firmware or not, who knows. Because of translation issues, it's possible they simply read what has been posted here on PF and thought it was just "firmware" and not "base firmware that can only be installed by a service center". Time will tell.

If there ends up being a user installable firmware update that "improves" the issue, that will be a good development. I just don't know why they can't seem to ELIMINATE the problem.

Last edited by DRabbit; 06-24-2014 at 06:22 AM.
06-24-2014, 06:38 AM   #4
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Based on their track record, that website would have mentioned if they were reporting what was said on PF. They talk about complaints on a Japanese forum about the mirror issue. What makes me think they are not talking about a service centre only fix is that they also mention it will add the diffraction correction system from the 645Z. That sounds like a normal user-applied firmware update.

06-24-2014, 07:13 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
the diffraction correction system from the 645Z
Aha. They explain 645Z diffraction correction like this:

QuoteQuote:
Newly equipped with diffraction and color fringe correction
Lens compensation function

The PENTAX 645Z is equipped with full-featured lens correction functionality. Together with distortion and magnification chromatic aberration, peripheral illumination correction and diffraction correction are newly added. Diffraction that occur when stopping down the lens during shooting are effectively corrected on the PENTAX 645Z. Additionally, it is equipped with fringe correction for use in processing RAW images. This camera will support the higher quality finish.
Optical distortion, vignetting and CA correction I can understand, same with moire correction, but how would diffraction correction work? If you shoot a lens at f22, and it's resolution suffers due to the diffraction effect, that resolution is effectively lost in the lens, I would have thought.
06-24-2014, 07:25 AM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by DRabbit Quote
....
If there ends up being a user installable firmware update that "improves" the issue, that will be a good development. I just don't know why they can't seem to ELIMINATE the problem.
Good Morning,

This is in no way a defense of Ricoh, but there are several types of software problems that can occur, particularly in embedded real time systems - and the K3 falls into that category, that can be extremely difficult to find. Fixing them is the easy part. Finding them is very frustrating. The act of instrumenting the software, can change the nature of the problem or even eliminate it - thus making finding them all the more difficult. The best way is monitoring the system in real time, externally with external equipment. Unfortunately, that is pretty much a lab situation.

Characterizing the problem, getting it to repeat, so that one can understand the conditions and then to track it down is more art than science. Then toss in some hardware variations across components, where the problem occurs only with percentage of a component (usually near an operating limit) and you have just created an even tougher problem.

Also, what is even tougher is that the users see the problem, not always manifesting itself always in the same way - thus is becomes almost a random event. In some instances its an environmental problem - temperature induced.

Anyway, just my two cents worth on the problem....

06-24-2014, 07:36 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Optical distortion, vignetting and CA correction I can understand, same with moire correction, but how would diffraction correction work? If you shoot a lens at f22, and it's resolution suffers due to the diffraction effect, that resolution is effectively lost in the lens, I would have thought.
This page explains how it works as implemented by Olympus.
Olympus OMD EM1 diffraction compensation | Cameralabs
06-24-2014, 08:13 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
This page explains how it works as implemented by Olympus.
Thanks. Interesting software magic. Could be useful for JPEG shooters.

I guess the introduction of this feature in the 645Z and K-3 will also require an updated release of Ricoh/Pentax Digital Camera Utility software too.

06-24-2014, 10:17 AM   #9
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Sony has diffraction correction in the Bionz X processing for the A7 family, a6000, possibly others, but it's no use to me unless it's available in LR5.
06-24-2014, 12:41 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
Good Morning,

This is in no way a defense of Ricoh, but there are several types of software problems that can occur, particularly in embedded real time systems - and the K3 falls into that category, that can be extremely difficult to find. Fixing them is the easy part. Finding them is very frustrating. The act of instrumenting the software, can change the nature of the problem or even eliminate it - thus making finding them all the more difficult. The best way is monitoring the system in real time, externally with external equipment. Unfortunately, that is pretty much a lab situation.

Characterizing the problem, getting it to repeat, so that one can understand the conditions and then to track it down is more art than science. Then toss in some hardware variations across components, where the problem occurs only with percentage of a component (usually near an operating limit) and you have just created an even tougher problem.

Also, what is even tougher is that the users see the problem, not always manifesting itself always in the same way - thus is becomes almost a random event. In some instances its an environmental problem - temperature induced.

Anyway, just my two cents worth on the problem....

I agree. This seems to me to be one of those very hard problems, hard to diagnose, hard to test. I like the way they are going about fixing it. I suspect they had a fix or many iterations of a fix that they tested locally and then broadened out the test as they became more sure. Now it is available by the service shops, and if it in fact is reliable, will be propagated by a firmware update.

I installed some hardware a few years ago from a major manufacturer that developed problems after running for a while. On my end it was clear what was happening, some sensor or logic failure. Hard to go further with the black boxes (literally) that made up the thing, but the cause of the problem took a while for the manufacturer to figure out and for the information to be made available. There was a quality control problem with a thermistor manufactured by a third party. Diagnosis was only the start; they had to set up sourcing for millions of these things from someone else, and get them out available for those who serviced the equipment. A nightmare for everyone involved.

They should just fix it is exactly what they are doing.
06-24-2014, 12:44 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
but it's no use to me unless it's available in LR5.
For that you will need upgrade to LRx.x. It is the Adobe way


Steve
06-24-2014, 12:49 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
For that you will need upgrade to LRx.x. It is the Adobe way

Steve
Or pay the monthly fee, until death do us part.
06-25-2014, 05:06 PM   #13
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This is a wake up call for Pentax and I hope that they will finally address the issue. I believe that they were not able to fix it before because they wouldn't acknowledge that there was a problem since the documentation and complaints were done individually.

I'm new to Pentax and I'm glad I read your product feedback before I bought my equipment.. But it's really sad to see that older models were also affected as well as new ones. Now, I want to build up my Pentax arsenal by acquiring more lenses and an additional body. Instead of going for the higher model (k-3) I might be going for another K-5II if it will still be available or K-5IIs. I'm not a professional photographer, but have been into photography since the 80s. I love photography and I guess just as any photographer would like to have it, I would like a set of dependable equipment.
06-25-2014, 06:35 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
This is a wake up call for Pentax and I hope that they will finally address the issue. I believe that they were not able to fix it before because they wouldn't acknowledge that there was a problem since the documentation and complaints were done individually.

I'm new to Pentax and I'm glad I read your product feedback before I bought my equipment.. But it's really sad to see that older models were also affected as well as new ones. Now, I want to build up my Pentax arsenal by acquiring more lenses and an additional body. Instead of going for the higher model (k-3) I might be going for another K-5II if it will still be available or K-5IIs. I'm not a professional photographer, but have been into photography since the 80s. I love photography and I guess just as any photographer would like to have it, I would like a set of dependable equipment.
The K-3 is a fantastic camera. The problem is real for those who experience it but most never do. The fix is coming, Be happy you didn't buy a D600.

Not sure how you are able to infer that Pentax could or couldn't do anything before or after today.
06-25-2014, 08:00 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The K-3 is a fantastic camera. The problem is real for those who experience it but most never do. The fix is coming, Be happy you didn't buy a D600.

Not sure how you are able to infer that Pentax could or couldn't do anything before or after today.
Firstly, I'm very happy with my K-5II and yes thank God I didn't get the D600. It is also a fact that the K-3 is the best in its class. Not just in Pentax but the whole of the APS-C division (that is basing it on my own observations). I'm not saying that they can't fix it. Just as before I bought my K-5II there was a problem that existed that held me from buying my K-5II as soon as possible. There was a problem with which was resolved by a 1.06 firmware update/upgrade. When I purchased mine, I asked our dealers here (Camerahaus) to update the firmware for me and to have it included as a part of their warranty to which they agreed. I believed it solved the shutter speed sync problem for all K-5II/IIs. This gave me good enough assurance that my camera will function flawlessly.

Regarding other units, I have read that some K-r and K-5 units have had the same problems. To what others have said, they did tried to resolve it themselves and some ended up using the AA battery adapters with eneloops as their solution. Some K-5s were returned and were fixed. Others tried to resolve the problem themselves. Some K-5 owners concluded that there was some problem with there circuitry since mirror flapping would occur only when the battery installed was freshly charged. This i believe is one of the reasons why Pentax didn't really know much about the mirror flapping problem. As I have stated they were reported individually. So probably, the numbers wouldn't be that significant. Had it been documented like what DRabbit did to the K-3, it could have been noticed. Lately, a thread was started regarding the K-50 having some mirror flapping problem. Though they said that the K-50 incident has a different behavior, still if I own a K-50 it would give me some doubts. If it occurred to me, I would be irritated.

I am not saying that Pentax will not be able to solve the issue but, I sure hope they will do it soon and put an end to this problem. Why I would buy a K-5II/IIs over the K-3? It's because I might buy it soon. I wouldn't like to buy a K-3 despite all its advantages and complain about mirror flapping issue if I get one with such defect. The services of cameras in my country is awful. If you guys think that 6 weeks is bad, try 7-8 months without your camera. That was my experience.
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