Just received my K-3; first experience not good

stevebrot · 08-15-2014, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Maybe you should try Auto mode? Or Instagram?

Now that is just plain mean...

Steve

kkoether · 08-15-2014, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Khoff2

After a bit of testing, it looks like menu C.18 works as follows:
1: off = continuous AF
2: low = AF will hold focus for .5 sec, then will AF again
3: med = AF will hold focus for 1 sec, then will AF again
4: high = AF will hold focus for 1.5 sec, then AF again

---------- Post added 08-15-14 at 12:43 PM ----------

On second try, i got completely different results. Now I'm confused again

As long as off is continuous AF that's all that matters to me. Boats moving 100+ MPH don't need a focus hold.

cfraz · 08-15-2014, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Khoff2

After a bit of testing, it looks like menu C.18 works as follows:
1: off = continuous AF
2: low = AF will hold focus for .5 sec, then will AF again
3: med = AF will hold focus for 1 sec, then will AF again
4: high = AF will hold focus for 1.5 sec, then AF again

---------- Post added 08-15-14 at 12:43 PM ----------

On second try, i got completely different results. Now I'm confused again

There is some additional detail on how the hold algorithm behaves in other posts here on PF. If I recall correctly, the hold time for each setting is not fixed, but depends on how long focus has been maintained before it's lost as well.

I think it was user DOSDAN who gave a comprehensive report of his findings. Maybe in the K-3 for sports thread.

Khoff2 · 08-15-2014, 02:28 PM

"Maybe you should try Auto mode? Or Instagram? Just one button. I mean, we all know that photography depends completely on the gear and has nothing at all to do with experience and skill. And Instagram photos are always so nice and sharp, with good saturation. I mean, why would anyone even bother with complicated cameras"

I deal with huge egos everyday in my occupation, but some of these photographers are off the charts. What an a******!

Quicksand · 08-15-2014, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by kkoether

As long as off is continuous AF that's all that matters to me. Boats moving 100+ MPH don't need a focus hold.

You might consider otherwise if you ever have to pan past an obstruction -- like a pole -- on the shoreline. Without a "hold" setting activated the camera will try to re-focus on something like that as you go by, even briefly.

kkoether · 08-15-2014, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Quicksand

You might consider otherwise if you ever have to pan past an obstruction -- like a pole -- on the shoreline. Without a "hold" setting activated the camera will try to re-focus on something like that as you go by, even briefly.

That's the nice thing about pit area access and knowing people. I usually have water side access. A few weeks back I was sitting on a ledge on the shoreline with my feet in the water. I actually liked the perspective I got from that angle. May try it again.

stevebrot · 08-15-2014, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Khoff2

I deal with huge egos everyday in my occupation, but some of these photographers are off the charts.

It comes with the territory to a certain extent. We are all experts, after all. Some of us have even been pointing a camera at something for 4-5 decades! That being said, I would characterize the comments on this thread overall as being generally constructive and helpful with some mild chiding thrown in regarding regarding reasonable expectations and standard photographic technique.

I am glad that you found the problem with your configuration and that the community in general was able to chew on the matter for a bit. I learned something anyway. I don't often use AF-C and was puzzled as to the best way to set up tracking. Despite using only the default settings, I have been fairly amazed at the K-3's ability to manage and track complex motion. I just wish that Ricoh would publish an extension to the user guide or even better something similar to the white papers that Canon has made available to their user base.

In regards to your runaway mirror problem, if it were me I would negotiate an exchange with the shop where you bought the camera before any more time elapses. From all reports, the fix for this issue involves sending the camera in for warranty service. You are best to simply exchange the camera with the dealer and let them send the thing back to Ricoh as defective.

Steve

Na Horuk · 08-15-2014, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Khoff2

I deal with huge egos everyday in my occupation, but some of these photographers are off the charts. What an a******!

Oh come on

Its just that we get threads like this often. People often expect perfect results with their brand new gear, but there is always a learning curve. When the K-3 came out, lots of people complained about its quality. Now they take great photos with it.
But to answer the questions. Firmware should be updated, as the latest firmware is usually the best and most stable and can fix small bugs that might affect WB and AF. We don't know what exactly the firmware update does, apart from what Pentax says in the official release. There might be silent fixes, but its difficult to confirm them
Do Sigma lenses need fine tuning? Not necessarily, but I think more third party lenses need AF fine tuning than Pentax lenses. This is probably simply to do with the mount being reverse engineered and the camera having lens-specific profiles for the Pentax lenses. There are many threads about AF adjustment, using focus charts and other techniques to help find the best AF settings for your specific camera and lens (there is copy variation due to factory tolerances, which is why a lens can work great on one camera, but have FF/BF on another).
Should you return and get a Sony? This just sounds provocative. I mean, sure, go for it. Or don't. I just don't see why you would think the Sony would be inherently perfect. Getting the right focus is a big part of photography and has a lot to do with experience with that specific gear, so getting yet another different camera probably won't help. But if you think it will, please, go ahead. I don't want to detract you from getting the gear you want or need

Oh and AWB is usually bad indoors. You should select Tungsten in the WB menu. And I don't know about the K-3, but many Pentax cameras have a Menu option where you can select "Tungsten WB correction" to be strong or normal. Another thing you could do is use custom WB. Or like you said, shoot raw, choose WB in post

bossa · 08-15-2014, 05:20 PM

Nikon recommends using a tightly packed group of focus points for continuous sports related AF. A single focus point cannot be expected to produce the desired outcome with a high rate of success where the target is constantly moving.

kkoether · 08-15-2014, 05:47 PM

I use Auto 9 and bias it to the area I want. Seems to work pretty well so far. Still developing my technique with the K-3 though. Quite a difference from my K200D.

Khoff2 · 08-16-2014, 10:35 AM

Here are some comparison shots from the K3 with the DA*200 and the Sigma 70-200 EX, both F2.8. Trying to decide which to keep. Both are pretty fast on the K3. The keeper rate and focus speed is about the same, so I'm mostly looking at IQ and Bokeh. What do you think.

DA* 200mm F2.8

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68750816@N03/sets/72157646112164807/

Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 HSM

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68750816@N03/sets/72157646116326429/

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/242969-sports-images-k-3-a...#ixzz3AZrzrfLL

rawr · 08-16-2014, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Khoff2

I'm mostly looking at IQ and Bokeh

They both produce great looking images. If AF performance is the same, I'd probably go with the 70-200, just for the extra flexibility of the focal length. You won't always be shooting the same place and from the same position.

Unregistered User · 08-19-2014, 09:48 AM

A note on the Auto White Balance, AWB.

There are many suggestions to put the White Balance on Tungsten when indoors. In Sweden, and EU as a whole I guess, the majority of light sources these days are no longer tungsten so test for your prefered setting. (You can't buy tungsten bulbs in Sweden anymore...)

emalvick · 08-19-2014, 01:31 PM - **1 Like**

This is probably contrary to the norm, but I usually just use AWB for almost all situations. If I have any potential concerns I will shoot a gray card. With tungsten lights, I usually just make my adjustments in PP. Most of the time the camera gets it decent and the gray card helps. I let my eyes guide the end result (I tend to like a warmer image anyway).

Nick Siebers · 08-19-2014, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by emalvick

This is probably contrary to the norm, but I usually just use AWB for almost all situations. If I have any potential concerns I will shoot a gray card. With tungsten lights, I usually just make my adjustments in PP. Most of the time the camera gets it decent and the gray card helps. I let my eyes guide the end result (I tend to like a warmer image anyway).

I use Auto WB all the time too. And I use RAW + JPEG for when that was a mistake! If I have a few shots that chimp way off I will switch, but I almost always forget to switch back. Ah well.

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08-15-2014, 11:38 AM	#31
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Na Horuk Maybe you should try Auto mode? Or Instagram? Now that is just plain mean... Steve

08-15-2014, 12:34 PM	#32
kkoether Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huber Heights, OH, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 731	Originally posted by Khoff2 After a bit of testing, it looks like menu C.18 works as follows: 1: off = continuous AF 2: low = AF will hold focus for .5 sec, then will AF again 3: med = AF will hold focus for 1 sec, then will AF again 4: high = AF will hold focus for 1.5 sec, then AF again ---------- Post added 08-15-14 at 12:43 PM ---------- On second try, i got completely different results. Now I'm confused again As long as off is continuous AF that's all that matters to me. Boats moving 100+ MPH don't need a focus hold.

08-15-2014, 01:12 PM	#33
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by Khoff2 After a bit of testing, it looks like menu C.18 works as follows: 1: off = continuous AF 2: low = AF will hold focus for .5 sec, then will AF again 3: med = AF will hold focus for 1 sec, then will AF again 4: high = AF will hold focus for 1.5 sec, then AF again ---------- Post added 08-15-14 at 12:43 PM ---------- On second try, i got completely different results. Now I'm confused again There is some additional detail on how the hold algorithm behaves in other posts here on PF. If I recall correctly, the hold time for each setting is not fixed, but depends on how long focus has been maintained before it's lost as well. I think it was user DOSDAN who gave a comprehensive report of his findings. Maybe in the K-3 for sports thread.

08-15-2014, 02:28 PM	#34
Khoff2 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 84 Original Poster	"Maybe you should try Auto mode? Or Instagram? Just one button. I mean, we all know that photography depends completely on the gear and has nothing at all to do with experience and skill. And Instagram photos are always so nice and sharp, with good saturation. I mean, why would anyone even bother with complicated cameras" I deal with huge egos everyday in my occupation, but some of these photographers are off the charts. What an a******!

08-15-2014, 02:51 PM	#35
Quicksand Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area) Posts: 1,519	Originally posted by kkoether As long as off is continuous AF that's all that matters to me. Boats moving 100+ MPH don't need a focus hold. You might consider otherwise if you ever have to pan past an obstruction -- like a pole -- on the shoreline. Without a "hold" setting activated the camera will try to re-focus on something like that as you go by, even briefly.

08-15-2014, 03:37 PM	#36
kkoether Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huber Heights, OH, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 731	Originally posted by Quicksand You might consider otherwise if you ever have to pan past an obstruction -- like a pole -- on the shoreline. Without a "hold" setting activated the camera will try to re-focus on something like that as you go by, even briefly. That's the nice thing about pit area access and knowing people. I usually have water side access. A few weeks back I was sitting on a ledge on the shoreline with my feet in the water. I actually liked the perspective I got from that angle. May try it again.

08-15-2014, 04:00 PM	#37
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Khoff2 I deal with huge egos everyday in my occupation, but some of these photographers are off the charts. It comes with the territory to a certain extent. We are all experts, after all. Some of us have even been pointing a camera at something for 4-5 decades! That being said, I would characterize the comments on this thread overall as being generally constructive and helpful with some mild chiding thrown in regarding regarding reasonable expectations and standard photographic technique. I am glad that you found the problem with your configuration and that the community in general was able to chew on the matter for a bit. I learned something anyway. I don't often use AF-C and was puzzled as to the best way to set up tracking. Despite using only the default settings, I have been fairly amazed at the K-3's ability to manage and track complex motion. I just wish that Ricoh would publish an extension to the user guide or even better something similar to the white papers that Canon has made available to their user base. In regards to your runaway mirror problem, if it were me I would negotiate an exchange with the shop where you bought the camera before any more time elapses. From all reports, the fix for this issue involves sending the camera in for warranty service. You are best to simply exchange the camera with the dealer and let them send the thing back to Ricoh as defective. Steve

08-15-2014, 04:36 PM	#38
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by Khoff2 I deal with huge egos everyday in my occupation, but some of these photographers are off the charts. What an a*****! Oh come on Its just that we get threads like this often. People often expect perfect results with their brand new gear, but there is always a learning curve. When the K-3 came out, lots of people complained about its quality. Now they take great photos with it. But to answer the questions. Firmware should be updated, as the latest firmware is usually the best and most stable and can fix small bugs that might affect WB and AF. We don't know what exactly the firmware update does, apart from what Pentax says in the official release. There might be silent fixes, but its difficult to confirm them Do Sigma lenses need fine tuning? Not necessarily, but I think more third party lenses need AF fine tuning than Pentax lenses. This is probably simply to do with the mount being reverse engineered and the camera having lens-specific profiles for the Pentax lenses. There are many threads about AF adjustment, using focus charts and other techniques to help find the best AF settings for your specific camera and lens (there is copy variation due to factory tolerances, which is why a lens can work great on one camera, but have FF/BF on another). Should you return and get a Sony? This just sounds provocative. I mean, sure, go for it. Or don't. I just don't see why you would think the Sony would be inherently perfect. Getting the right focus is a big part of photography and has a lot to do with experience with that specific gear*, so getting yet another different camera probably won't help. But if you think it will, please, go ahead. I don't want to detract you from getting the gear you want or need Oh and AWB is usually bad indoors. You should select Tungsten in the WB menu. And I don't know about the K-3, but many Pentax cameras have a Menu option where you can select "Tungsten WB correction" to be strong or normal. Another thing you could do is use custom WB. Or like you said, shoot raw, choose WB in post

08-15-2014, 05:20 PM	#39
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Nikon recommends using a tightly packed group of focus points for continuous sports related AF. A single focus point cannot be expected to produce the desired outcome with a high rate of success where the target is constantly moving.

08-15-2014, 05:47 PM	#40
kkoether Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huber Heights, OH, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 731	I use Auto 9 and bias it to the area I want. Seems to work pretty well so far. Still developing my technique with the K-3 though. Quite a difference from my K200D.

08-16-2014, 10:35 AM	#41
Khoff2 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 84 Original Poster	Here are some comparison shots from the K3 with the DA200 and the Sigma 70-200 EX, both F2.8. Trying to decide which to keep. Both are pretty fast on the K3. The keeper rate and focus speed is about the same, so I'm mostly looking at IQ and Bokeh. What do you think. DA 200mm F2.8 https://www.flickr.com/photos/68750816@N03/sets/72157646112164807/ Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 HSM https://www.flickr.com/photos/68750816@N03/sets/72157646116326429/ Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/242969-sports-images-k-3-a...#ixzz3AZrzrfLL

08-16-2014, 04:28 PM	#42
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Khoff2 I'm mostly looking at IQ and Bokeh They both produce great looking images. If AF performance is the same, I'd probably go with the 70-200, just for the extra flexibility of the focal length. You won't always be shooting the same place and from the same position.

08-19-2014, 09:48 AM	#43
Unregistered User Guest	A note on the Auto White Balance, AWB. There are many suggestions to put the White Balance on Tungsten when indoors. In Sweden, and EU as a whole I guess, the majority of light sources these days are no longer tungsten so test for your prefered setting. (You can't buy tungsten bulbs in Sweden anymore...)

08-19-2014, 01:31 PM - 1 Like	#44
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	This is probably contrary to the norm, but I usually just use AWB for almost all situations. If I have any potential concerns I will shoot a gray card. With tungsten lights, I usually just make my adjustments in PP. Most of the time the camera gets it decent and the gray card helps. I let my eyes guide the end result (I tend to like a warmer image anyway).

08-19-2014, 03:15 PM	#45
Nick Siebers Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,165	Originally posted by emalvick This is probably contrary to the norm, but I usually just use AWB for almost all situations. If I have any potential concerns I will shoot a gray card. With tungsten lights, I usually just make my adjustments in PP. Most of the time the camera gets it decent and the gray card helps. I let my eyes guide the end result (I tend to like a warmer image anyway). I use Auto WB all the time too. And I use RAW + JPEG for when that was a mistake! If I have a few shots that chimp way off I will switch, but I almost always forget to switch back. Ah well.