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10-03-2014, 10:11 AM   #1
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Jumping shutter speed in exposure mode P ?

Hi,


after taking pictures with K20 and K5 for several years I got a K3. With the K3 I found a strange behavior in exposure mode "P":


  • I set the aperture to 3.5 with the rear dial, so the camera switches to "Av Hyper". That is normal.
  • I took a picture with the shutter release button and afterwards the picture was displayed on the screen.
  • While the picture was displayed I want to see the last picture. So I turned the front dial once. Because the camera was in shooting mode and not in playback mode, it didn't display the last picture but switched back and was ready to shoot next.
  • Up to this point it is the same behavior as the K5.
  • But the exposure mode has changed to "Tv Hyper" and the shutter speed has jumped from 1/30s to 1/250s. So the next picture was spoiled.


This behavior is reproducible. Every time I forget, that I'm not in display mode and turn the front dial, the shutter speed jumps somewhere and the next picture has a wrong exposure time. Normally it is spoiled.


The camera has the firmware V1.11. Does your K3 shows the same behavior ? If so, is this a bug or a feature, that I don't understand ?



Thanks for your reply !

10-03-2014, 10:40 AM   #2
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Hello Siegbert

I think your findings are normal, see picture of the Ricoh website.
Green button Restore to Hyper P
Attached Images
 
10-03-2014, 12:27 PM   #3
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Hello Crooski,

thanks for your reply. I know this side of the manual and I have used this function a long time with the K5. And I like it.

But normally when your are in "Av Hyper" and turn the front dial, the camera switches to "Tv Hyper" and changes the current shutter speed only by one step. It never jumps from 1/30s to 1/250s.

And normally you can only select a speed for which exist a proper aperture. But when turning the front dial while the instand picture is shown, the select shutter speed jumps from F3.5, 1/30s to 1/250s and no proper aperture was available. So the next picture was much too dark, while the picture before was correct. According to the manual, this should not happen.

Can you check if your K3 behaves the same way ?

Thanks, Siegbert
10-03-2014, 12:47 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by siegbert Quote
But normally when your are in "Av Hyper" and turn the front dial, the camera switches to "Tv Hyper" and changes the current shutter speed only by one step. It never jumps from 1/30s to 1/250s.
Was the camera pointed at exactly the same scene at the time you turned the dial as it was when you took the picture? As it was still in av hyper just prior to turning the dial it would have been choosing a different shutter speed if it were pointed at a different subject while you were looking at the picture.

10-03-2014, 12:50 PM   #5
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Every click on the front dial will add to the shutter speed.
10-03-2014, 11:16 PM   #6
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Hello Parallax,

thanks for your reply. Yes, the camera pointed to the same scene. I have checked the scene with both, the K5 and K3. The K5 behaves as I would have expected, while the K3 jumps with the exposure time every time I try.

It's easy to check: Set the K3 to "Av Hyper", take a picture and turn the front dial while the picture is shown. Then I can see, that the time has jumped.
10-04-2014, 02:07 AM   #7
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I followed your instructions:
  • P Mode
  • Changed aperture (camera now in Av hyper)
  • Took photo
  • While the instant review was displayed, changed front dial several clicks. Instant review immediately disappeared (camera now in capture mode, Tv hyper at higher set shutter speed, display blinking...too little light)
  • Took photo (underexposed)
I then did the same sequence without taking the first picture and got the same results, underexposed.

As near as I can tell, you are complaining that the front dial behaves differently when in instant review mode (exits to capture mode Tv hyper) than when when in playback mode (scrolls to previous/next photo) and that your K-5 does not behave this way. I reviewed both the K-3 and K-5 owner's manuals and neither indicated what the front dial is supposed to do in instant review mode. While the front dial behavior may be different than in past models, I can see that it is consistent with how most things work on the K-3. A good example would be pressing the ISO button while in instant review mode. It too results in an immediate exit back to capture mode. The same basic rules apply in all exposure modes (not just P).

Answer: It is not a bug.


Steve

---------- Post added 10-04-14 at 02:11 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by siegbert Quote
It's easy to check: Set the K3 to "Av Hyper"
Parallax does not own a K-3. He is actively resisting the urge.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 10-04-2014 at 08:20 AM.
10-04-2014, 07:35 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by siegbert Quote
Hello Crooski,

thanks for your reply. I know this side of the manual and I have used this function a long time with the K5. And I like it.

But normally when your are in "Av Hyper" and turn the front dial, the camera switches to "Tv Hyper" and changes the current shutter speed only by one step. It never jumps from 1/30s to 1/250s.

And normally you can only select a speed for which exist a proper aperture. But when turning the front dial while the instand picture is shown, the select shutter speed jumps from F3.5, 1/30s to 1/250s and no proper aperture was available. So the next picture was much too dark, while the picture before was correct. According to the manual, this should not happen.

Can you check if your K3 behaves the same way ?

Thanks, Siegbert
Hello Siegbert

(Working in Hyper P)
I try to simulate what you ask, and the result is the following, turning the front dial while the instant picture is shown, the select shutter speed jumps from 1/30 to 1/40s the F remains the same and de ISO goes up.

Greetings GEORGE


Last edited by Crooski; 10-04-2014 at 07:37 AM. Reason: forgot something
10-04-2014, 07:42 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Parallax does not own a K-3. He is actively resisting the urge.


Steve
LOL
10-04-2014, 12:36 PM   #10
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Does the Program Line setting have any influence when in Hyper mode?
10-04-2014, 07:14 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
Does the Program Line setting have any influence when in Hyper mode?
No. Shifting into Av hyper or Tv hyper defeats the program line.


Steve
10-06-2014, 11:00 AM   #12
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Hello Steve,

thanks for checking the problem. In my opinion it's a bug to get an underexposed picture in P mode as long as there is enough light and the EV compensation is set to zero. According to the manual, in P mode I choose the aperture or the time and the camera will set the other value right according to the light. So it should not happen to get an underexposed picture.

I liked the P mode with K5, but now I think I will rather use Av or Tv mode and switch these modes if needed.

Thanks to all of you for your help.

Siegbert
10-06-2014, 12:50 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by siegbert Quote
Hello Steve,

thanks for checking the problem. In my opinion it's a bug to get an underexposed picture in P mode as long as there is enough light and the EV compensation is set to zero. According to the manual, in P mode I choose the aperture or the time and the camera will set the other value right according to the light. So it should not happen to get an underexposed picture.

I liked the P mode with K5, but now I think I will rather use Av or Tv mode and switch these modes if needed.

Thanks to all of you for your help.

Siegbert
When in P-mode it will be difficult to underexpose but if you go to Tv hyper mode and dial in a fast shutter speed the aperture will go to the bottom and start blinking, i.e underexposure happens. In P-mode this will not happen. To avoid going to Tv or Av hyper you can turn off the function for the dials in the menu.

Or, to get back to shooting mode do a half press on the shutter release.
10-06-2014, 04:58 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by siegbert Quote
In my opinion it's a bug to get an underexposed picture in P mode as long as there is enough light and the EV compensation is set to zero.
If you set the aperture, you are no longer in P mode. You are in Av hyper which overrides the program line and behaves identically to Av mode. It may be that the user manual is not particularly clear in this behavior, but that is how it is. It may also not be particularly clear that this is happening unless you are watching the top LCD instead of the rear LCD. You can see the changes happening there. The workaround, as noted above, is to disable the front and/or rear dials for P mode. Alternatively, you can disable instant review or remember that instant review is not the same as playback mode.


Steve

(...never ran into this behavior before...always use the 4-way controller for reviewing...the front dial is nice for this though )

Last edited by stevebrot; 10-06-2014 at 05:09 PM.
10-07-2014, 11:38 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I Alternatively, you can disable instant review
That is what I have done, prevents this sort of confusion. Playback is then always playback
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