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10-21-2014, 06:26 AM   #16
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The bellows action on a lens with a long zoom is probably the culprit, and ljkely through the viewfinder diopter adjustment area. With a very short WR zoom throw, like the 20-40 LTD, I'm guessing this would be much less likely. I agree that WR means weather resistant, not water tight, and that a very hard rain might be tantamount to dunking, especially if zooming. I view WR as snow and fog proof, not waterproof.

10-21-2014, 07:13 AM   #17
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For fun, I checked how this works on my copy of the DA 18-135. When I rapidly zoom in from 135 to 18mm, I can feel some air discharging around the rear element (definitely interior to the mount seal). So, this does explain how water vapor can enter the mirror box and potentially condense. Anyone know how the camera vents positive pressure coming from the lens?
10-21-2014, 07:46 AM   #18
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Well, going from my usage in torrential downpours, with care, I have never had a problem. With the PF review, it is stated that it is no gimmick and I am sure that if they had seen an issue themselves, they would have said fog and snow is ok but no rain.


Also, the picture in the Pentax marketing literature shows running water directly on the camera so it shows that water is resistant. As always, if you are not using prudent care, you can make the water ingress into the camera box as I had stated as if zooming inside of a pool of water, but if there is rain, the odds to hit the vent holes with just the right amount of water when zooming quickly at the same time would be very small. It is always a possibility but again the odds are small.


Again, I have been living in the Philippines for over a year and I am cautious to keep in mind that it is raining but not overly so much that I stop shooting. If that were the case, I would never take pics at all for better more than half the year here during the rainy season. I am sure that other areas of Asia or the Pacific Northwest would be in the same situation and I am sure you would see a lot of people complaining that these cameras truly were not water resistant in these areas and there would be a huge uproar which I don't really am seeing in the internet on this.


Here in the PI where Pentax is manufacturing our products, the users here are very confident of the WR of these cams to the point of using them in fire hosing contests most recently in a show in May so that they could show the Nikon and Canon guys how much better our cam is. I don't think I would go to that extent to hose them down but after a year here I am very confident. Manufactured items regardless of quality control can fail if not done properly so there is the possibility that individual specific cameras can fail, but that is the exception, not the rule.

Last edited by JimC1101; 10-21-2014 at 07:55 AM.
10-21-2014, 09:04 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
But it's hard to say if you have a bad seal or not.
That was my though as well. Time and pressure are the two considerations for water incursion. Given enough time, ALL seals will fail, even under low pressure. I don't worry about my K-3 in light rain or drizzle, but I also don't let it get soaked. OTOH, I don't have to wrap it in plastic bags and tape the same as a Canon shooter I saw on a recent rainy day in the Columbia River Gorge.


Steve

10-21-2014, 01:53 PM   #20
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The video made by Ricoh Pentax for the K-3 tells me that I will use the camera in rain and bad weather and if it fails they WILL fix it under warranty. I have used it during harsh conditions and it feels scary but it has performed without problem. From -25 degrees C to +36 degrees C, rain, snow.. Always on my sholder. This with K-3 + 18-135 WR or DA*300 or DA*300 +TC 1.4x


Check the video:
10-21-2014, 02:31 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
tells me that I will use the camera in rain and bad weather and if it fails they WILL fix it under warranty.
Funny...it does not tell me that. What it tells me is that they exposed a camera to light rain for less than 2 minutes. What is inferred is that it still worked afterward. I don't remember anything, inferred or explicit, regarding warranty if water is found in the camera.

What the owners manual (U.S. English version) says:

From the camera care section:

"Avoid contact with garbage, mud, sand, dust, water, toxic gases, or salt. These could cause the camera to breakdown. Wipe the camera to dry off any rain or water drops."

and from the warranty section:

"...Service will be rendered, and defective parts will be replaced without cost to you within that period, provided the camera does not show evidence of impact, sand or liquid damage, mishandling, tampering, battery or chemical corrosion, operation contrary to operating instructions, or modification by an unauthorized repair shop..."

It may be that the Swedish (where you are) or British (where the video originated) version reads differently.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 10-21-2014 at 02:37 PM.
10-21-2014, 03:08 PM   #22
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Well, we tend to pay alot more for the gear in Sweden so maybe we get more from the warranty =)

No, seriously. The text is the same in the swedish manual and is totally negating the sales pitch. Not legal to do. My Sony Xperia fell into a fish tank in the comersial, i guess they have the same text in that manual...

I have had my 18-135 WR exchanged under warranty due to water ingress in the front element. I guess I got lucky.

Edit: Added:

I would say to use common sense when it comes to the use in bad conditions.

Last edited by Tjompen1968; 10-21-2014 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Added one more row...
10-21-2014, 03:14 PM   #23
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Conditions like that also just lead to condensation. I've had to wipe down a backpack full of wet lenses that were never taken out of the bag just for walking around in condensation producing weather. Even with WR I'd use a rain sleeve and/or an umbrella for shooting in actual pouring rain. (I bought a hands-free umbrella for that purpose.)

10-21-2014, 03:21 PM   #24
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Pentax/Ricoh is in a bit of a predicament here. They deliver outstanding weather-sealing, but no DSLR is completely waterproof (i.e. submersible). Therefore they have to legally protect themselves against people who use the camera beyond its stated capabilities by dunking it underwater, letting it stand in torrential monsoon for a whole day or whatever. On the other hand there are stories where they have repaired equipment under the warranty when they found seals to be damaged (i.e. the water ingress was not the customer's fault).

I generally find that to be a very reasonable behaviour.
10-21-2014, 03:25 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
I will use the camera in rain and bad weather and if it fails they WILL fix it under warranty.
None of the manufacturers will warranty you for water incursion, Tjompen, not even Pentax, so best if you don't do it, because they don't believe their own advertising.
10-22-2014, 10:50 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
An hour in the rain? That's a long time. And it looks like it's raining pretty hard. The word "resistant" does not mean water proof. But it's hard to say if you have a bad seal or not. It's a statistical bell curve. Some units will fail under less/more severe conditions that others all while being per design, I suspect. You may have found your camera's limit.
You're probably right about the limit. I'm a little disappointed about having to be careful with the gear in the wet though.
I think I'll wait a bit and see if a pattern develops. So far this is the only incident.

Thanks to all who contributed.

Regards,
--Anders.
10-22-2014, 11:05 AM   #27
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I've had my DA* 16-50 and 50-135 on a K10D, K20D, K-5, and K-3 out in some drenching rainstorms and have never had a problem. Any lens that extends to zoom has the potential to suck dust and moisture inside. Just ask the Canon guys that have the EF 100-400mm f/4-5.6 USM L (aka the "Dust Pump").
10-22-2014, 12:03 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by asp1880 Quote
So far this is the only incident.
This is something you have control over. I live in a very rainy part of the world and have never had a seal failure in over seven years of Pentax dSLR usage, despite not owning a single sealed lens. My cameras have been exposed to salt spray, snow, rain, drizzle, and mist from water falls but always incidentally and never for an extended period of time. A good rule of thumb would be that if you are getting wet (leaking rain coats or water sneaking in around the edges), it is likely that the inside of your camera is too.


Steve
10-22-2014, 01:27 PM   #29
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And all seals deteriorate - especially removable covers for SD cards, cable ports, etc.

Genuine waterproof gear (not these cameras or lenses) is supposed to have gasket integrity checked regularly and replaced by someone who knows what they're doing.
10-24-2014, 10:53 AM   #30
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Many years ago, when Pentax introduced the IQ90WR camera (point & shoot) as the first "weather resistant" camera, it was promoted as capable of handling splashes, being dropped on the beach and taking a heavy rain.... BUT that's it! Its owner's manual clearly stated that DO NOT OPERATE CAMERA, ZOOM, LOAD FILM OR OPEN BATTERY CHAMBER IF CAMERA IS WET!.

WR means Weather Resistant, as it can take a downpour, get dirty and it could be washed by a light water stream under the tap. IT DOES NOT MEAN it can be operated for long periods of time under wet conditions!

No matter how many seals the camera and lens has. There are still places that are NOT water tight, like the viewfinder diopter adjustment lever, the pop up flash, all the doors (memory, connectors, etc), the gaps between power grip and body bottom and connections, battery door, etc. Provided seal will protect in case of splash or occasional wet conditions, but not under operation.

Just think about this. If the camera and lens were really water tight, it would be difficult to zoom in or out, as the air pressure inside the camera/lens combination could not be released (zoom in) or sucked it (zoom out). But with the K3 (or any other WR camera and lens combination), there is not even a slight resistance when zooming... right? This means there is lots of air being sucked in and pumped out the camera/lens combo every time the zoom is moved.
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