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12-08-2014, 08:44 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Oh yes. Artifacts galore. I checked the EXIF. At ISO 100 you should not have any artifacts. It looks like JPEG compression artifacts. I am curious as to the cause.

---------- Post added 12-08-14 at 07:07 AM ----------


I just noticed that the posted image is very small in size. This is JPEG compression artifacting. Do you shoot in RAW? Does the original RAW show the same artifacts? If the RAW image has the same artifacts then we have problem here. My guess is that the posted image is compressed too much and it shows.
BTW, fantastic image.

12-08-2014, 08:58 AM   #32
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm not much of a post-processor -- I need to up my game there with some s/w and h/w investment at home. I shoot the K-3 in RAW+ mode, sending the Raws to card 1, jpegs to card 2. The Yellowstone falls shot is definitely a jpeg straight from card 2. I can't recall if I sharpened it any afterwards, but i might have had in-camera sharpening set one marker to the right of green in the custom settings.
12-08-2014, 09:01 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Yes, several of us have noticed that best results are had with the camera on-tripod. Monochrome mentioned it within the first week after he got his K-3 and I noticed it soon after I got mine. Of course, the same was true with my K10D, but it is much more noticeable when pixel-peeping with the K-3...more pixels to peep at.


Steve
IIRC I lamented that I needed to upgrade my technique (hand-holding skill) to match the capabilities of my new camera. One major help for me has been to use a soft squeeze on the shutter release rather than a punch - something similar to target shooting with a rifle. That alone was 90% of my technique improvement. The rest was breath control, body motion and aperture and shutter speed selection.

I suppose my K-3 won't permit me to be sloppy. A user who shoots more than I do can get away with paying less attention since (presumably) s/he has developed better habits and muscle memory.
12-08-2014, 09:13 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
IIRC I lamented that I needed to upgrade my technique (hand-holding skill) to match the capabilities of my new camera. One major help for me has been to use a soft squeeze on the shutter release rather than a punch - something similar to target shooting with a rifle. That alone was 90% of my technique improvement. The rest was breath control, body motion and aperture and shutter speed selection.

I suppose my K-3 won't permit me to be sloppy. A user who shoots more than I do can get away with paying less attention since (presumably) s/he has developed better habits and muscle memory.
i understand all the caution taken for sharp images.

But let's face it, you do not get a K3 caliber camera; built in SR, 8 frame per second capable, clearly a pro spec camera to put it on a tripod to make sure you get sharp images. The K3 with its advertised SR should give you sharp images say on a 50mm lens down to 1/8 of a second easily. If the camera or the system cannot do that then something is wrong. And I do not mean user error.

Again, in my opinion, the SR is not what it is advertised to be. It is good, at best, for two stops and that is a stretch. So I guess we are back to either pumping up the ISO so that we can up the shutter speed or a tripod for low shutter speeds.


Last edited by btnapa; 12-08-2014 at 09:14 AM. Reason: typo
12-08-2014, 09:14 AM   #35
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Great discussion, all, thanks for sharing your experiences! I haven't been pleased with the sharpness of my photos of late and will concentrate more on sloppy technique. I've been debating upgrading to a K3 from a K5 to improve my images but I should consider the user, and not the camera limitations. I really appreciate everyone's input!
12-08-2014, 09:44 AM   #36
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Yes, great discussion.
12-08-2014, 09:50 AM   #37
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Don't count out that K-3 though.....

K-5 image


K-3 image


You do get more detail with a K-3.
12-08-2014, 09:54 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
i understand all the caution taken for sharp images.

But let's face it, you do not get a K3 caliber camera; built in SR, 8 frame per second capable, clearly a pro spec camera to put it on a tripod to make sure you get sharp images. The K3 with its advertised SR should give you sharp images say on a 50mm lens down to 1/8 of a second easily. If the camera or the system cannot do that then something is wrong. And I do not mean user error.

Again, in my opinion, the SR is not what it is advertised to be. It is good, at best, for two stops and that is a stretch. So I guess we are back to either pumping up the ISO so that we can up the shutter speed or a tripod for low shutter speeds.
On the contrary - with proper technique I now do as well with my K-3 hand-held as I ever did with any prior camera, which has always had a lower limit of 1/15s shutter speed..


Last edited by monochrome; 12-09-2014 at 02:10 PM.
12-08-2014, 10:06 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
i understand all the caution taken for sharp images.

But let's face it, you do not get a K3 caliber camera; built in SR, 8 frame per second capable, clearly a pro spec camera to put it on a tripod to make sure you get sharp images. The K3 with its advertised SR should give you sharp images say on a 50mm lens down to 1/8 of a second easily.
Down to 1/8s? If we consider the "natural safe" handheld speed for a 50mm on an APS-C camera to be 1/75s (you must raise it by crop factor because of smaller sensor before you start), then 1/8s is a full 3 stops and change. So *maybe* it should be able to do that if you have very good technique and steady hands, but "easily" (which suggests you should be able to go even lower)? If I can get away with 1/15s or 1/30s with a 50mm then I'm not complaining...
12-08-2014, 10:10 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
i understand all the caution taken for sharp images.

But let's face it, you do not get a K3 caliber camera; built in SR, 8 frame per second capable, clearly a pro spec camera to put it on a tripod to make sure you get sharp images. The K3 with its advertised SR should give you sharp images say on a 50mm lens down to 1/8 of a second easily. If the camera or the system cannot do that then something is wrong. And I do not mean user error.

Again, in my opinion, the SR is not what it is advertised to be. It is good, at best, for two stops and that is a stretch. So I guess we are back to either pumping up the ISO so that we can up the shutter speed or a tripod for low shutter speeds.
No matter which IS system is used, I'm uncomfortable with going much past two stops. Certain shutter speeds are inherently problematic and should be avoided hand held.

The comparisons of ILIS and IBIS have been pretty extensive, and until you get into the longer telephoto realm they perform very similarly. IL is better when you go especially long. But, at the wider lengths, IBIS appears to have a very slight edge - perhaps due to less inertia. In any event, no one should expect consistently good results at 1/8th with a 50mm because - unless your hands are especially steady - your induced motion is often complex (variable); no stabilization system can deal with that. Also, the number of stops has to calculate in crop factor - so with no IS, the shutter speed calls for around 1/80th - so 1/8th is more than three stops.

Points made by Monochrome make good sense to me.
12-08-2014, 10:22 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
But let's face it, you do not get a K3 caliber camera; built in SR, 8 frame per second capable, clearly a pro spec camera to put it on a tripod to make sure you get sharp images.
Ummmm...as a matter of fact, yes I did.

I also expected to have to tune my technique to match the camera's capabilities. I knew ahead of time that greater resolution required better technique and that SR was only part of the equation. Of course, I have been shooting since the late 1960s and that perspective colors my perception I suppose.


Steve
12-08-2014, 10:31 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gray Quote
Could this be the problem, as described by Ed at Photo Universe?

Pentax K-3: REDEMPTION - YouTube


Well, after watching this video I started to think about my K-3 settings...


I have the high-ISO noise reduction set to CUSTOM and further as follows:
- ISO100 / 200 / 400 -> OFF
- ISO 800 / 1600 / 3200 -> LOW
- ISO 6400 / 12800 -> MIDDLE
- ISO 25600 / 51200 -> HIGH (I don't use it much anyway...)


Noise reduction for longer shutter times I've left on AUTO.


Could it be OK or would you recommend a different setting?
12-08-2014, 10:32 AM   #43
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No problems here. This camera is damn sharp and even handheld, I love its output.

Check out the detail on this gator. ~1 stop SR used


Camera PENTAX K-3
Lens smc PENTAX-DA L 55-300mm F4-5.8 ED
Focal Length 210mm
Exposure 1/160
F Number f/7.1
ISO 800

See all the tiny details inside the flower on the bottom


Camera PENTAX K-3
Lens smc PENTAX-DA 50mm F1.8
Focal Length 50mm
Exposure 1/80
F Number f/3.2
ISO 1600

Solitary fly-away hairs are razor sharp


Camera PENTAX K-3
Lens Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8
Focal Length 50mm
Exposure 1/125
F Number f/4
ISO 400
12-08-2014, 10:33 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Don't count out that K-3 though.....

K-5 image


K-3 image


You do get more detail with a K-3.
I'm hoping "real" prices come down more so I do not have to pay for "freebies" I won't use. I have been watching prices and might commit if "there's an offer I can't refuse."
12-08-2014, 10:36 AM   #45
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K3 is a very good camera
will make us all better or frustrated photographers!
Aloha
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