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12-10-2014, 07:23 AM   #1
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K3 spot metering

I do a lot of landscape and cave photography which requires multiple exposures which are shot from tripod. Back in my Nikon days I could set the camera up on a tripod, put it in live view and select my exposure point by moving the dot with my cross pad. With my K3 I'm only able to do this if my metering is locked with focus point(this is not ideal). Or I can put on center spot metering and move the camera to set exposure(also not ideal). Am I missing some hidden setting somewhere?? Thanks in advance for any help!!

Pic to show harsh lighting. Taken with Nikon back in the day.


Link to full size..
https://www.flickr.com/photos/78994628@N02/14323028694/

12-10-2014, 07:49 AM   #2
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The spot metering point is fixed and corresponds with the center ( ) marks in the viewfinder. Are you sure you're not thinking about focus points? I don't know how it would be possible to move the spot metering point, it is hardware inside the body reading a very specific point in the viewfinder. It is not movable to my knowledge. Focus points are another matter and you can select to use a specific focus point in Pentax DSLRs.
12-10-2014, 08:03 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbope Quote
The spot metering point is fixed and corresponds with the center ( ) marks in the viewfinder. Are you sure you're not thinking about focus points? I don't know how it would be possible to move the spot metering point, it is hardware inside the body reading a very specific point in the viewfinder. It is not movable to my knowledge. Focus points are another matter and you can select to use a specific focus point in Pentax DSLRs.
The Nikon was only movable while in live view. Was hoping for the same on the K3.
12-10-2014, 09:00 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by coliver80 Quote
With my K3 I'm only able to do this if my metering is locked with focus point(this is not ideal). Or I can put on center spot metering and move the camera to set exposure(also not ideal). Am I missing some hidden setting somewhere?? Thanks in advance for any help!!
No hidden features here, unless you find one! In theory the viewfinder metering system might be capable of something like what you describe as might the live view. Who knows, perhaps Ricoh will include something similar in the next round of cameras.


Steve

12-10-2014, 10:48 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by coliver80 Quote
I do a lot of landscape and cave photography which requires multiple exposures which are shot from tripod. Back in my Nikon days I could set the camera up on a tripod, put it in live view and select my exposure point by moving the dot with my cross pad. With my K3 I'm only able to do this if my metering is locked with focus point(this is not ideal). Or I can put on center spot metering and move the camera to set exposure(also not ideal). Am I missing some hidden setting somewhere?? Thanks in advance for any help!!

Pic to show harsh lighting. Taken with Nikon back in the day.


Link to full size..
https://www.flickr.com/photos/78994628@N02/14323028694/
In your Nikon example, it appears the metering point is the same as the focus point which is what you can do with your Pentax, too. In Live View, you can move the focus point and the metering point will move right with it. If you need them to be independent and with the metering point off-center, you can aim for the exposure point and then use the exposure lock button. Does that work for you?
12-10-2014, 10:56 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
In your Nikon example, it appears the metering point is the same as the focus point which is what you can do with your Pentax, too. In Live View, you can move the focus point and the metering point will move right with it. If you need them to be independent and with the metering point off-center, you can aim for the exposure point and then use the exposure lock button. Does that work for you?
That would indeed work if it weren't for the camera being on a tripod for multi-exposures. May have to try linking metering and focus and see if my HDR program will compensate for any DOF or focus difference's. Thanks for the reply!
12-10-2014, 12:21 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by coliver80 Quote
That would indeed work if it weren't for the camera being on a tripod for multi-exposures. May have to try linking metering and focus and see if my HDR program will compensate for any DOF or focus difference's. Thanks for the reply!
I think you can still make it work if you set the metering time for a long enough period. Once you hit the AE-L button, there will be plenty of time to recompose while on the tripod and the metering won't change. Hope that helps.
12-10-2014, 12:33 PM   #8
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You have raised a valid concern. The best solution would be investment in a handheld meter. This would be advised even for your fine Nikon setup because you are dealing with such significant lighting extremes that even in-camera spot metering tends to pick up stray readings. This is also a situation where the incidence metering is especially helpful.

12-10-2014, 01:43 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Quote
You have raised a valid concern. The best solution would be investment in a handheld meter. This would be advised even for your fine Nikon setup because you are dealing with such significant lighting extremes that even in-camera spot metering tends to pick up stray readings. This is also a situation where the incidence metering is especially helpful.
I was thinking the same thing. In-camera metering is a good thing, but difficult lighting situations usually require a little more. In the case of cave mouth HDR, I would imagine the need to do several exposures and quite a bit of fancy masking/merging to make it work.


Steve
12-10-2014, 01:55 PM   #10
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Hi,
As I understand it, the problem is that you want to be able to select the AF point different from the AE point.

You can do that with the K3 if you can accept to do AF and AE in two separate steps and that AF is performed before exposure measurement (no need to move camera in between).
Here are 3 simple ways, assuming AE already is linked to AF, spot, automatic exposure (Av, P etc.) and using live view:

1: First move the AF point to where you want to focus. Then push the shutter release halfway down to focus. Then move the AF point to where you want the exposure to be measured. With the default configuration for the AF button ( = cancel AF, Camera settings->4->Button Customization->AF Button->Cancel AF), push and hold the AF button to cancel AF, release the shutter and take the image. For the next image (without refocusing), move the AF point, push and hold the AF button, release the shutter, repeat for each image.

2: Pushing and holding the AF button while pressing the shutter release for each image can be avoided if you change the AF button behaviour to AF2 (Camera settings->4->Button Customization->AF Button->AF 2. This disables AF with the shutter release and AF must now be performed by pressing the AF button. So now you must move the AF point to where you want to focus and press the AF button to focus. Then move the AF point to where you want the light to be measured and presse the shutter release button. Repeat for each image.

3: If you have a remote control, it will (by default for setting C.3.19) release the shutter without refocusing. Now you can focus by pressing the camera's ordinary shutter release button halfway down, move the AF point to where you want to measure light and trigger the shutter release with the remote.

Then, there is a snag with using manual exposure (M). You can then measure light with the green button after you have moved the AF point. However, before pushing the green button you have to lock the AF point (remove those arrows on the AF point) or else the green button will reset the AF point to the mid point of the live view instead of measuring exposure.


Hope this was of some help.

Best wishes,
Frode Langset

(and excuse my English, it's not my native language)
12-10-2014, 02:06 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I was thinking the same thing. In-camera metering is a good thing, but difficult lighting situations usually require a little more. In the case of cave mouth HDR, I would imagine the need to do several exposures and quite a bit of fancy masking/merging to make it work.


Steve
You are right. I would put the camera in Selective Spot Metering(I think that was the term), Put camera on tripod, live view focus, lock focus, start taking shots.. metering first outside of cave and start working my way in... generally 5-7 shot.. then create HDR.. very rarely had to mask anything.

---------- Post added 12-10-14 at 04:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by nozoom Quote
Hi,
As I understand it, the problem is that you want to be able to select the AF point different from the AE point.

You can do that with the K3 if you can accept to do AF and AE in two separate steps and that AF is performed before exposure measurement (no need to move camera in between).
Here are 3 simple ways, assuming AE already is linked to AF, spot, automatic exposure (Av, P etc.) and using live view:

1: First move the AF point to where you want to focus. Then push the shutter release halfway down to focus. Then move the AF point to where you want the exposure to be measured. With the default configuration for the AF button ( = cancel AF, Camera settings->4->Button Customization->AF Button->Cancel AF), push and hold the AF button to cancel AF, release the shutter and take the image. For the next image (without refocusing), move the AF point, push and hold the AF button, release the shutter, repeat for each image.

2: Pushing and holding the AF button while pressing the shutter release for each image can be avoided if you change the AF button behaviour to AF2 (Camera settings->4->Button Customization->AF Button->AF 2. This disables AF with the shutter release and AF must now be performed by pressing the AF button. So now you must move the AF point to where you want to focus and press the AF button to focus. Then move the AF point to where you want the light to be measured and presse the shutter release button. Repeat for each image.

3: If you have a remote control, it will (by default for setting C.3.19) release the shutter without refocusing. Now you can focus by pressing the camera's ordinary shutter release button halfway down, move the AF point to where you want to measure light and trigger the shutter release with the remote.

Then, there is a snag with using manual exposure (M). You can then measure light with the green button after you have moved the AF point. However, before pushing the green button you have to lock the AF point (remove those arrows on the AF point) or else the green button will reset the AF point to the mid point of the live view instead of measuring exposure.


Hope this was of some help.

Best wishes,
Frode Langset

(and excuse my English, it's not my native language)
Thanks for the reply! I'll check out your directions when I get home and have camera in hand!
12-10-2014, 02:34 PM   #12
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One thing to do is to start using back button focus. That way you no longer have the need for focusing with the shutter release. Set your focus with the back button AF, move the LV focus square, having the metering locked with the AF-point, C-5 = 2, to where you want to meter and take a photo, move again, take second photo and so on.

This clip is about back button focus:

Also there are threads on the subject.
12-10-2014, 03:14 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by coliver80 Quote
You are right. I would put the camera in Selective Spot Metering(I think that was the term), Put camera on tripod, live view focus, lock focus, start taking shots.. metering first outside of cave and start working my way in... generally 5-7 shot.. then create HDR.. very rarely had to mask anything.
OK...I see your use case and why you are wanting fine control over the spot metering. A hand-held spotmeter and M mode would be just the ticket.


Steve
12-10-2014, 03:51 PM   #14
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This doesn't really address your problem directly, and a spot-meter with M mode is probably best.

But, when I've been in similar situations, I use M mode. I set the exposure for the bright spot (or the dark spot if that ends up in the middle). I then take a series of photos by adjusting the shutter speed to get the opposite extreme of the exposure. In essence, I'm bracketing by hand. I use the histogram to confirm that I've gotten enough exposures and make my adjustments about 1 full stop at a time.

It requires less play with focus points and trying to move things around at the expense of more shots than you want. I'd argue that you can quickly do this my hand, so the extra shots don't hurt much other than some card space. You could probably even utilize the bracketing settings and EV compensation to be a little more automatic.
12-10-2014, 08:01 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by nozoom Quote
Hi,
As I understand it, the problem is that you want to be able to select the AF point different from the AE point.

You can do that with the K3 if you can accept to do AF and AE in two separate steps and that AF is performed before exposure measurement (no need to move camera in between).
Here are 3 simple ways, assuming AE already is linked to AF, spot, automatic exposure (Av, P etc.) and using live view:

1: First move the AF point to where you want to focus. Then push the shutter release halfway down to focus. Then move the AF point to where you want the exposure to be measured. With the default configuration for the AF button ( = cancel AF, Camera settings->4->Button Customization->AF Button->Cancel AF), push and hold the AF button to cancel AF, release the shutter and take the image. For the next image (without refocusing), move the AF point, push and hold the AF button, release the shutter, repeat for each image.

2: Pushing and holding the AF button while pressing the shutter release for each image can be avoided if you change the AF button behaviour to AF2 (Camera settings->4->Button Customization->AF Button->AF 2. This disables AF with the shutter release and AF must now be performed by pressing the AF button. So now you must move the AF point to where you want to focus and press the AF button to focus. Then move the AF point to where you want the light to be measured and presse the shutter release button. Repeat for each image.

3: If you have a remote control, it will (by default for setting C.3.19) release the shutter without refocusing. Now you can focus by pressing the camera's ordinary shutter release button halfway down, move the AF point to where you want to measure light and trigger the shutter release with the remote.

Then, there is a snag with using manual exposure (M). You can then measure light with the green button after you have moved the AF point. However, before pushing the green button you have to lock the AF point (remove those arrows on the AF point) or else the green button will reset the AF point to the mid point of the live view instead of measuring exposure.


Hope this was of some help.

Best wishes,
Frode Langset

(and excuse my English, it's not my native language)
I like your option #1 the best.. but after some tinkering I think I found a quicker method.. kinda sloppy but Ill have to try it!!

1. Link autofocus and exposure.
2. Go into live view and use movable spot focus to set your focus pushing shutter button halfway.
3. Turn switch on camera from Auto focus to Manual focus.
4. Move focus point to point of desired metering... camera will remeter but not refocus... take shot..
5. Move focus to next point and continue...
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