WOW!!!!! I didn't think high ISO would be THIS good!!

normhead · 12-18-2014, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I actually like the one better without NR. The noise in that photo isn't that bad and doesn't detract from the photo at all.

For anyone used to film, that grain is totally acceptable.

rawr · 12-18-2014, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

Try this in LR (should take less than 10 seconds)...

Just endorsing Michaelina's workflow here. Been routinely doing the same. It is important to work the NR alongside sharpening alongside masking. What I would add is that at the highest ISO's it never hurts to crush the blacks a bit and boost contrast a notch as well.

Also in Lightroom chroma noise reduction is a funny thing. If applied too strongly it will damage detail particularly in K-3 reds. Usually it's best to take it just to the point where it removes most of the chroma speckles in dark areas, and stop there.

emalvick · 12-18-2014, 03:14 PM

This is a great thread. I came to a similar conclusion yesterday (similar to the OP) as I processed a photo I had reluctantly taken at 12800 speed with the K3 and got remarkably good results although I used DxO for processing. However, even without noise removal, the image looked pretty good. I normally avoid using NR ever since I got a K5 a few years ago. With the K5, noise wasn't a huge problem. AND, if I tried to use NR, I found that I lost a lot of detail. I'd rather have noise than lost detail (in most cases).

With the K3, I'm actually feeling like the noise is less. I think it's because it's finer, but when it is there it processes away very easily with no significant detail loss. I rarely have to sharpen to make up for NR, but I'm not using much NR anyway.

I posted an example ISO 12800 shot over in the High Iso thread (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/64295-pentax-hig...t-here-93.html)

I don't fully understand all the High ISO dislike for the K3.

john5100 · 12-18-2014, 04:21 PM - **1 Like**

I think it's very good.

ISO 6400

Foy Vance @ Neptune by John Rudolph Photography, on Flickr

ISO 12,800

Martha Davis and The Motels by John Rudolph Photography, on Flickr

Sandy Hancock · 12-18-2014, 04:45 PM

Like john5100, I shoot a lot of live music, and there has been no practical difference in noise between my K-3 and my K-5 IIs. Both do extremely well, and have produced usable images when the FF CaNikon guys have walked away shaking their heads.

DeadJohn · 12-18-2014, 05:01 PM

K3 vs K5 noise has been discussed many times. For most photos there's no discernable difference in noise if you are displaying or printing at the same final size from both cameras. The noise looks different if you pixel peep at 1:1 but that's not how most people look at photos.

Stickl · 12-18-2014, 05:03 PM - **3 Likes**

Looks good for sure!
This one is taken with orig. K-5, ISO 12800. And you know the long exposure does effect to noise in a bad way cuz of warm sensor. So this is not bad IMO. Tho that K-3's pic surprised me, I've always thought the K-3 being bad in low light within high ISOs.

**lsimpkins** · 12-18-2014, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

AND... Want to do more...?
Try this in LR (should take less than 10 seconds)...

1. Open the DNG file in the DEVELOP module.
2. Open the EFFECTS dialog box and go to the Noise Reduction set of sliders.
3. Press the "Alt" key on your PC to turn the image to B&W, then with your mouse pointer, push the Luminance slider to the place on the scale where the noise speckles start to fade, then adjust to suit your fancy (some like to leave a few speckles to keep the image from looking plastic...). Be patient as it may take a moment for the effect to become apparent.
4. Press the Alt key, again and adjust the COLOR slider to remove the color speckles. Again, be patient as it may take a moment or two for the color speckles to dissolve.
5. Go to the SHARPENING set of sliders (above the NR set in the EFFECTS dialog box).
6. In your mind, subtract the Luminance adjustment number from 100 and enter that calculation into the AMOUNT slider's adjustment result box. For example, if your Luminance number was 30, enter 70. Notice that the luminance noise you erased earlier has returned. UGH ! Get rid of it by...
7. Press the Alt key on your PC, again, and adjust the MASKING slider to the point that your image appears to be a B&W line drawing.
8. Release the Alt key...

BINGO ! You have killed the image noise AND sharpened it, as needed to fit your taste. Now, get that pesky WB under control...

Cheers... M

In LR 5, the sharpening adjustments are in the DETAIL dialog box. EFFECTS just controls Post-Crop Vignetting and Grain.

**Michaelina2** · 12-18-2014, 10:00 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by lsimpkins

In LR 5, the sharpening adjustments are in the DETAIL dialog box. EFFECTS just controls Post-Crop Vignetting and Grain.

I stand corrected and have edited my note... Thank you.

Cheers... M

mikeSF · 12-19-2014, 12:59 AM

impressive results

**lsimpkins** · 12-19-2014, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

I stand corrected and have edited my note... Thank you.

Cheers... M

No problem. And great procedure. Did you figure this out yourself or learn the technique from someone?

Thanks.

**Michaelina2** · 12-19-2014, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by lsimpkins

No problem. And great procedure. Did you figure this out yourself or learn the technique from someone?

Thanks.

Hat Tip: John5100...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/247974-k-3-noise-2.html#post2644938

Cheers... M

**nicoprod** · 12-20-2014, 09:16 AM

I'm confused.. Does in camera NR have an effect on DNG files?? I thought DNG files were untouched....

aleonx3 · 12-20-2014, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by nicoprod

I'm confused.. Does in camera NR have an effect on DNG files?? I thought DNG files were untouched....

I thought so too, but then I saw the video from Ed saying the NR in k-3 is different from k-5/IIs series. So, I am not sure now..

rawr · 12-20-2014, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by nicoprod

Does in camera NR have an effect on DNG files?? I thought DNG files were untouched....

The in-camera NR settings only apply to JPEG's, not DNG.

Why rely on YouTube videos, which are often little more than anecdotal amateur chats, when you can check the issue out yourself with ease.

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12-18-2014, 02:24 PM	#31
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Rondec I actually like the one better without NR. The noise in that photo isn't that bad and doesn't detract from the photo at all. For anyone used to film, that grain is totally acceptable.

12-18-2014, 02:33 PM	#32
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Michaelina2 Try this in LR (should take less than 10 seconds)... Just endorsing Michaelina's workflow here. Been routinely doing the same. It is important to work the NR alongside sharpening alongside masking. What I would add is that at the highest ISO's it never hurts to crush the blacks a bit and boost contrast a notch as well. Also in Lightroom chroma noise reduction is a funny thing. If applied too strongly it will damage detail particularly in K-3 reds. Usually it's best to take it just to the point where it removes most of the chroma speckles in dark areas, and stop there.

12-18-2014, 03:14 PM	#33
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	This is a great thread. I came to a similar conclusion yesterday (similar to the OP) as I processed a photo I had reluctantly taken at 12800 speed with the K3 and got remarkably good results although I used DxO for processing. However, even without noise removal, the image looked pretty good. I normally avoid using NR ever since I got a K5 a few years ago. With the K5, noise wasn't a huge problem. AND, if I tried to use NR, I found that I lost a lot of detail. I'd rather have noise than lost detail (in most cases). With the K3, I'm actually feeling like the noise is less. I think it's because it's finer, but when it is there it processes away very easily with no significant detail loss. I rarely have to sharpen to make up for NR, but I'm not using much NR anyway. I posted an example ISO 12800 shot over in the High Iso thread (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/64295-pentax-hig...t-here-93.html) I don't fully understand all the High ISO dislike for the K3.

12-18-2014, 04:21 PM - 1 Like	#34
john5100 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,725	I think it's very good. ISO 6400 Foy Vance @ Neptune by John Rudolph Photography, on Flickr ISO 12,800 Martha Davis and The Motels by John Rudolph Photography, on Flickr

12-18-2014, 04:45 PM	#35
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Like john5100, I shoot a lot of live music, and there has been no practical difference in noise between my K-3 and my K-5 IIs. Both do extremely well, and have produced usable images when the FF CaNikon guys have walked away shaking their heads.

12-18-2014, 05:01 PM	#36
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	K3 vs K5 noise has been discussed many times. For most photos there's no discernable difference in noise if you are displaying or printing at the same final size from both cameras. The noise looks different if you pixel peep at 1:1 but that's not how most people look at photos.

12-18-2014, 05:03 PM - 3 Likes	#37
Stickl Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Oulu Posts: 271	Looks good for sure! This one is taken with orig. K-5, ISO 12800. And you know the long exposure does effect to noise in a bad way cuz of warm sensor. So this is not bad IMO. Tho that K-3's pic surprised me, I've always thought the K-3 being bad in low light within high ISOs.

12-18-2014, 08:14 PM	#38
lsimpkins Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: SE Pennsylvania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 537	Originally posted by Michaelina2 AND... Want to do more...? Try this in LR (should take less than 10 seconds)... 1. Open the DNG file in the DEVELOP module. 2. Open the EFFECTS dialog box and go to the Noise Reduction set of sliders. 3. Press the "Alt" key on your PC to turn the image to B&W, then with your mouse pointer, push the Luminance slider to the place on the scale where the noise speckles start to fade, then adjust to suit your fancy (some like to leave a few speckles to keep the image from looking plastic...). Be patient as it may take a moment for the effect to become apparent. 4. Press the Alt key, again and adjust the COLOR slider to remove the color speckles. Again, be patient as it may take a moment or two for the color speckles to dissolve. 5. Go to the SHARPENING set of sliders (above the NR set in the EFFECTS dialog box). 6. In your mind, subtract the Luminance adjustment number from 100 and enter that calculation into the AMOUNT slider's adjustment result box. For example, if your Luminance number was 30, enter 70. Notice that the luminance noise you erased earlier has returned. UGH ! Get rid of it by... 7. Press the Alt key on your PC, again, and adjust the MASKING slider to the point that your image appears to be a B&W line drawing. 8. Release the Alt key... BINGO ! You have killed the image noise AND sharpened it, as needed to fit your taste. Now, get that pesky WB under control... Cheers... M In LR 5, the sharpening adjustments are in the DETAIL dialog box. EFFECTS just controls Post-Crop Vignetting and Grain.

12-18-2014, 10:00 PM - 1 Like	#39
Michaelina2 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SE Michigan USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,302	Originally posted by lsimpkins In LR 5, the sharpening adjustments are in the DETAIL dialog box. EFFECTS just controls Post-Crop Vignetting and Grain. I stand corrected and have edited my note... Thank you. Cheers... M

12-19-2014, 12:59 AM	#40
mikeSF Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,622	impressive results

12-19-2014, 08:36 PM	#41
lsimpkins Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: SE Pennsylvania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 537	Originally posted by Michaelina2 I stand corrected and have edited my note... Thank you. Cheers... M No problem. And great procedure. Did you figure this out yourself or learn the technique from someone? Thanks.

12-19-2014, 10:11 PM	#42
Michaelina2 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SE Michigan USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,302	Originally posted by lsimpkins No problem. And great procedure. Did you figure this out yourself or learn the technique from someone? Thanks. Hat Tip: John5100... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/247974-k-3-noise-2.html#post2644938 Cheers... M

12-20-2014, 09:16 AM	#43
nicoprod Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: New Berlin, WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528	I'm confused.. Does in camera NR have an effect on DNG files?? I thought DNG files were untouched....

12-20-2014, 10:13 AM	#44
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by nicoprod I'm confused.. Does in camera NR have an effect on DNG files?? I thought DNG files were untouched.... I thought so too, but then I saw the video from Ed saying the NR in k-3 is different from k-5/IIs series. So, I am not sure now..

12-20-2014, 01:42 PM	#45
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by nicoprod Does in camera NR have an effect on DNG files?? I thought DNG files were untouched.... The in-camera NR settings only apply to JPEG's, not DNG. Why rely on YouTube videos, which are often little more than anecdotal amateur chats, when you can check the issue out yourself with ease.