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02-09-2015, 07:36 PM   #1
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Questions about video recording on the K-3

I don't own the K-3 but have questions on its video implementation .

1) when you start the video recording, does the shutter fire ?
2) when you manually stop the recording, does the shutter fire ?
3) when the maximum video clip length is reached and video recording stops automatically, does the shutter fire ?


Last edited by madbrain; 02-09-2015 at 08:00 PM.
02-09-2015, 08:04 PM   #2
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I don't own a K-3 either, but with the K-50 some lens and shutter speed/Aperture combo's the recording will start without the shutter closing and the reopening, others it will close/open/record. Likely similar with the K-3 because it's a DSLR as well.
02-09-2015, 08:14 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
I don't own a K-3 either, but with the K-50 some lens and shutter speed/Aperture combo's the recording will start without the shutter closing and the reopening, others it will close/open/record. Likely similar with the K-3 because it's a DSLR as well.
This is strictly a firmware issue. It's up to the camera to decide whether to fire the shutter or not.
It is not necessary for video start/stop. The only time the mirror needs to go up or down is when going in/out of Liveview mode. When you start/stop video recording, you are already in Liveview mode, so there should be no need for shutter to fire.
With my K-30, the shutter fires when stopping with every lens.
Which lens does shutter not fire when stopping recording on your K-50 ?

This is a showstopper problem for me for recording music videos with multiple cameras. The noise of the shutter when the K-30 automatically stops video recording gets heard in the other cameras' mics, as well as the separate audio mics I have setup. The K-30 shutter noise ruins the entire take. This is solo harpsichord we are talking about.

My Canon T3i does not do this - no shutter fire on startup/stop of video recording. I reported the issue to Pentax years ago. They have not fixed it in the K-30 firmware updates. I'm just wondering if they fixed it in any other camera, including the K-3. This would be a reason for me to upgrade my K-30 if they did.

Last edited by madbrain; 02-09-2015 at 08:28 PM.
02-09-2015, 09:15 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
1) when you start the video recording, does the shutter fire ?
2) when you manually stop the recording, does the shutter fire ?
3) when the maximum video clip length is reached and video recording stops automatically, does the shutter fire ?
On the K-3 (firmware v1.11)
1. NO
2. NO
3. YES, the shutter closes and the mirror drops when the camera drops out of video mode.


Steve

02-09-2015, 09:18 PM   #5
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Steve,

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
On the K-3 (firmware v1.11)
3. YES, the shutter closes and the mirror drops when the camera drops out of video mode.
Thanks. But why does the camera drop out of video mode when the recording ends ? It should stay in live view.
Is it because of the auto power-off that happens a couple of seconds/minutes after the recording stops (depending on your settings) ?
Or does the mirror drop immediately when the video recording stops ?
02-09-2015, 10:22 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
This is strictly a firmware issue. It's up to the camera to decide whether to fire the shutter or not.
It is not necessary for video start/stop. The only time the mirror needs to go up or down is when going in/out of Liveview mode. When you start/stop video recording, you are already in Liveview mode, so there should be no need for shutter to fire.
With my K-30, the shutter fires when stopping with every lens.
Which lens does shutter not fire when stopping recording on your K-50 ?
Any lens, usually F4 the shutter doesn't fire when starting or stopping recordings..
I'm not the first to discover this.. It's been brought up times before here and on other forums.
eg: ► https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/193296-shutter-fires...ml#post2035900
02-09-2015, 10:34 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
3) when the maximum video clip length is reached and video recording stops automatically, does the shutter fire ?
QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Thanks. But why does the camera drop out of video mode when the recording ends ? It should stay in live view.
It was never in live view. It was in video mode.

When in video mode:
  • If actively recording, at 25 minutes the maximum time is reached and quits active recording
  • If not actively recording, the camera will go to sleep after the auto timeout (1 minute default)
When the camera times out, the shutter closes and the mirror drops.


Steve
02-09-2015, 11:22 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It was never in live view. It was in video mode.
OK, same difference.

QuoteQuote:
When in video mode:
  • If actively recording, at 25 minutes the maximum time is reached and quits active recording
  • If not actively recording, the camera will go to sleep after the auto timeout (1 minute default)
When the camera times out, the shutter closes and the mirror drops.
Thanks. So if one disables the auto power off, the mirror should not drop (but it would drain the battery, of course).

---------- Post added 02-09-15 at 10:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Any lens, usually F4 the shutter doesn't fire when starting or stopping recordings..
I'm not the first to discover this.. It's been brought up times before here and on other forums.
eg: ► https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/193296-shutter-fires...ml#post2035900
Thanks for showing me that thread - I was a part of it and didn't remember the apertures issue.
That thread is about the K-30 though, not the K-3 .

I am asking about the K-3 here to see if Pentax has fixed this firmware bug.

02-10-2015, 12:24 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
OK, same difference.



Thanks. So if one disables the auto power off, the mirror should not drop (but it would drain the battery, of course).

---------- Post added 02-09-15 at 10:23 PM ----------



Thanks for showing me that thread - I was a part of it and didn't remember the apertures issue.
That thread is about the K-30 though, not the K-3 .

I am asking about the K-3 here to see if Pentax has fixed this firmware bug.
You asked me about the K-50.
What makes you think it's a bug?
02-10-2015, 01:48 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
You asked me about the K-50.
What makes you think it's a bug?
Sorry - getting confused with the 2 Steves. Yes, I did.

But the subject of the thread is about the K-3 .

It's either a bug or a poor design decision, either way, I want to know if Pentax fixed/changed it.
02-10-2015, 09:09 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I am asking about the K-3 here to see if Pentax has fixed this firmware bug.
It is not a bug...It is the way it works and makes perfect sense given the high power consumption of the video mode. Even with the rear LCD off, it takes power to hold the mirror up.

As for your specific problem (multiple cameras picking up shutter noises):
  • This may not be of a problem with the K-3. Its shutter is very quiet.
  • Provide a sound muffler for the camera, perhaps?
  • I am surprised that you are recording sound for the music videos live and that the cameras are louder than the music!
  • Your takes are longer than 25 minutes? Amazing...
I suggest you buy another EOS Rebel. They are cheap and apparently meet your needs.

FWIW, I write software for a living and accurate/stable spec implementations are not "bugs", regardless of how clumsy they might be. Implementations that fail or are inconsistent or which are not stable or which are not to spec...those are bugs.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 02-10-2015 at 09:46 AM. Reason: Softened language...
02-10-2015, 09:14 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Thanks. So if one disables the auto power off, the mirror should not drop (but it would drain the battery, of course).
That is a fair assumption, though I am not going to go through the trouble to test it. When I do video, my takes are generally 10 minutes or shorter and the current K-3 shutter behavior is not an issue.

Edit: I did test it and it works.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 02-10-2015 at 01:01 PM.
02-10-2015, 12:06 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It was never in live view. It was in video mode.
QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
OK, same difference.
It occurred to me that you may have forgotten that video on the K-3 is not a subset of Live View. The two are completely separate. Video mode is entered by means of the dedicated stills/movie switch and is available from both regular still photo mode and live view. If the camera "goes to sleep" in video mode, it is still in video mode when you wake it up and remains in video mode until the video switch is returned to the stills photo position.


Steve
02-10-2015, 06:18 PM   #14
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steve,

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
[*]I am surprised that you are recording sound for the music videos live and that the cameras are louder than the music!
It is solo harpsichord. This is not a very loud instrument. And the cameras are very close to it, at different angles.
The K-30 shutter going off is very audible. Less so when I record piano.

QuoteQuote:
[*]Your takes are longer than 25 minutes? Amazing...
That's because I'm not a professional musician. I usually record for a very long time (hours) before I get a good take.
I do multiple takes in a row. And it's very unnerving if the shutter goes off in the middle of a good one. It's not just the sound but the distraction.

Synchronizing the multiple camera audio in software is a bit of a pain, so I prefer to keep the number of clips to synchronize to a minimum.
That means running all the cameras as long as possible.

I have gotten better software for synchronizing multiple video clips more recently, though. So using the remote to start/stop the Pentax camera may be a more viable option now than it was a couple years ago.

QuoteQuote:
I suggest you buy another EOS Rebel. They are cheap and apparently meet your needs.
I would prefer not to. I own only one Canon lens - a stabilized Tamron 18-270 which was expensive. I don't really want to own more Canon stuff.
I have a much larger investment in Pentax lenses. I know it's possible to use Pentax lenses on Canon, and I have tried, but the PK to Canon adapter I bought is very flimsy - the PK lenses look like they could fall off, so not a good option. And of course features like AF don't work with it.

QuoteQuote:
FWIW, I write software for a living and accurate/stable spec implementations are not "bugs", regardless of how clumsy they might be. Implementations that fail or are inconsistent or which are not stable or which are not to spec...those are bugs.
I also write software for a living. I'm sure you have implemented "features" before that some of your users considered to be bugs, or annoyances.

Anyway, in this case, the Pentax behavior is quite inconsistent, reportedly firing off the shutter with some lenses at some apertures, and not others.
That's definitely not documented anywhere in the user manual. Hard to call it a feature. Definitely strange behavior.

Maybe it's an undocumented "feature", but either way, it's annoying to me.

Some people may want the shutter to fire to notify them that the video recording stopped. For other situations like mine, it's undesirable.
Sounds like a good candidate for a camera setting.

---------- Post added 02-10-15 at 05:19 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is a fair assumption, though I am not going to go through the trouble to test it. When I do video, my takes are generally 10 minutes or shorter and the current K-3 shutter behavior is not an issue.

Edit: I did test it and it works.


Steve
Thanks. When you said, it works - you meant the K-3 shutter didn't fire automatically when the recording stopped ?

---------- Post added 02-10-15 at 05:22 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It occurred to me that you may have forgotten that video on the K-3 is not a subset of Live View. The two are completely separate. Video mode is entered by means of the dedicated stills/movie switch and is available from both regular still photo mode and live view. If the camera "goes to sleep" in video mode, it is still in video mode when you wake it up and remains in video mode until the video switch is returned to the stills photo position.

Well, not so much forgotten as the fact that I don't own a K-3 and have never seen one in person.
On my K-30, I can turn on Live view from any of the stills mode by pressing the live view button.

But to do a video recording, I have to set the mode dial to "video". At that point, the camera shows the image on the LCD rather than the optical viewfinder, ie.it is in "live view".
02-11-2015, 12:55 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
steve,



It is solo harpsichord. This is not a very loud instrument. And the cameras are very close to it, at different angles.
The K-30 shutter going off is very audible. Less so when I record piano.



That's because I'm not a professional musician. I usually record for a very long time (hours) before I get a good take.
I do multiple takes in a row. And it's very unnerving if the shutter goes off in the middle of a good one. It's not just the sound but the distraction.

Synchronizing the multiple camera audio in software is a bit of a pain, so I prefer to keep the number of clips to synchronize to a minimum.
That means running all the cameras as long as possible.

I have gotten better software for synchronizing multiple video clips more recently, though. So using the remote to start/stop the Pentax camera may be a more viable option now than it was a couple years ago.



I would prefer not to. I own only one Canon lens - a stabilized Tamron 18-270 which was expensive. I don't really want to own more Canon stuff.
I have a much larger investment in Pentax lenses. I know it's possible to use Pentax lenses on Canon, and I have tried, but the PK to Canon adapter I bought is very flimsy - the PK lenses look like they could fall off, so not a good option. And of course features like AF don't work with it.



I also write software for a living. I'm sure you have implemented "features" before that some of your users considered to be bugs, or annoyances.

Anyway, in this case, the Pentax behavior is quite inconsistent, reportedly firing off the shutter with some lenses at some apertures, and not others.
That's definitely not documented anywhere in the user manual. Hard to call it a feature. Definitely strange behavior.

Maybe it's an undocumented "feature", but either way, it's annoying to me.

Some people may want the shutter to fire to notify them that the video recording stopped. For other situations like mine, it's undesirable.
Sounds like a good candidate for a camera setting.

---------- Post added 02-10-15 at 05:19 PM ----------



Thanks. When you said, it works - you meant the K-3 shutter didn't fire automatically when the recording stopped ?

---------- Post added 02-10-15 at 05:22 PM ----------




Well, not so much forgotten as the fact that I don't own a K-3 and have never seen one in person.
On my K-30, I can turn on Live view from any of the stills mode by pressing the live view button.

But to do a video recording, I have to set the mode dial to "video". At that point, the camera shows the image on the LCD rather than the optical viewfinder, ie.it is in "live view".
I wasn't sure what happened on my K-3 when the video reached its recording limit, so I tried it today.
The answer is, if you set sleep timer to off, it will stay in video mode indefinately ( as long as the camera has power). So you will never hear any mirror or shutter noise in any of the three circumstances you asked about, at least on a K-3.

John.
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