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02-17-2015, 05:07 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Expect a firmware update in the near future that will extend the life of this body. It seems that the $800 K3's were manufactured in very late 2014, so it wasn't old stock.
What exactly could such a firmware update entail that would 'extent the life' of the K3?

02-17-2015, 07:38 PM - 2 Likes   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
What exactly could such a firmware update entail that would 'extent the life' of the K3?
Rework the video stuff. Much of what is disappointing are codecs. Focus peaking during movie recording. SR fixes as well. Full HDMI output via hardware.

Expose all the shooting modes to the flu card, as well as USB tethering, and make sharing transparent. Much of it is simply saving the file in the appropriate place.

There are a bunch of minor quirks here and there. Allow selection of card for saving. The selection of focus points could be cleaned up a bit, for example opening the information screen if the selection mode button is pushed. Some things don't work properly if you have back button focus set. The led illumination light on the new flash units should come on for focus assist instead of the green light. Allow turning off of the info screen without having to use two buttons. The flash delay may be hardware based, but I'm certain it could be improved, and manual mode should allow you to create a mess using the flash if you want.

I think there are a few optimizations in the various subsystems to be had. Focus especially tracking is software based, and could be improved. Something very useful would be the saving and loading of configurations. A commonly used menu selection mode would be handy.

Metering and white balance are very good, but there are corner cases to chase down and eliminate.

There are limits to the hardware, and the idea is to do things that would be transferable to other bodies such as the 645z and the coming FF.
02-18-2015, 07:46 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I think Ricoh know that by far most of the cameras and lenses they will sell over the next several years will be APS-C, not FF.

I hope that Ricoh will primarily think of their K-mount products as though they are two separate ranges: a K-APS-C range which is comprehensive, and at the top end capable of high quality work; and a K-FF range which is beyond that, for the subset of their K-mount customer base who are prepared to make a large new investment.

I hope Ricoh don't see the K-FF range as something that K-APS-C users need to upgrade to in order to do high quality photography. After all, the K-APS-C range will have size and weight advantages that means it deserves a long life in its own right. (Quite apart from prices which most K-APS-C users won't be prepared to pay in their lifetimes).

Ricoh don't cripple the Q range to force people to "upgrade" to the K range. They won't crippled the K range to force people to "upgrade" to the 645 range. I don't think they need to "cripple or restrict" the K-APS-C range to force people to "upgrade" to the K-FF range.They could promote them as separate ranges with massive cross-over opportunities.
No but one trick Ricoh may want to play (or may be getting ready to) is to further push FF down to K-3 then K-S2 price range.
De facto, it means (and IMO it will inevitably) get current APS users go for FF although not an upgrade from budget perspective.
02-18-2015, 07:59 AM   #64
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Allow selection of card for saving. Now that would be nice........

02-18-2015, 09:45 PM   #65
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1. Ricoh hit the ball out of the park with the K-3.
2. Ricoh has to concentrate on the FF for really important reasons, including keeping current Pentaxians.
3. Firmware updates is all that is needed for now.
4. Most of us know that most of the crap that goes into cameras is exactly that...crap. To take great photos you don't need all the available features, just a manual setting, the right sensor for the job and great glass. Pros find it easier to have tethering capabilities, the top quality video ju juor, etc. But these pros are purchasing equipment far in excess of what they or we need because of the "agency" problem, which is someone asking them if they are using a camera that can produce "x" MPs. Photo enthusiasts and semi-pros don't have to put up with that nonsense, and the K-3 as it is works fine. Firmware improvements is enough for now, until after the FF comes out.
5. There is IMHO a huge pent-up demand for the FF. Heck, I have been collecting lenses in preparation for some time. Anyhow, when it comes out there will be a bunch of used K-3s on the market which will hurt some of the current model K-3 sales. An upgraded K-3 had better have a significant upgrade when this happens. Otherwise, it makes good business sense to simply wait before offering an upgrade.

Last edited by quant2325; 02-18-2015 at 09:52 PM.
02-18-2015, 10:18 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by quant2325 Quote
5. There is IMHO a huge pent-up demand for the FF. Heck, I have been collecting lenses in preparation for some time. Anyhow, when it comes out there will be a bunch of used K-3s on the market which will hurt some of the current model K-3 sales.
I'm not sure about that. If I buy the FF (still an "if") I'm pretty sure I won't be getting rid of the K3. Too much investment in DA glass; too wedded to compact Limiteds when travelling or hiking; too dependent on 300 APS-C =450 FF; ... too happy with the K3. If you're right though, I'd be in the market for some bargain APS-C lenses!
02-28-2015, 02:54 AM   #67
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I don't think we can claim that the K-3 would be the best APSC out there, as long as there's the Nikon D7100 (or in the near future the D7200) having an equivalent sensor, but a (far?) better autofocus system.


I hope, that the K-3 successor will become a hard rival to the top Nikon APSC (whatever that will be), praying the Pentax FF will get a totally new and hopefully state-of-art AF, and the K-3 successor will then inherit this one


Frankly, the current K-3 is not yet a camera which I could imagine using happily for years, due to the AF (NB: I like shooting people, if you don't your mileage may vary of course)
02-28-2015, 03:22 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
I don't think we can claim that the K-3 would be the best APSC out there, as long as there's the Nikon D7100 (or in the near future the D7200) having an equivalent sensor, but a (far?) better autofocus system.


I hope, that the K-3 successor will become a hard rival to the top Nikon APSC (whatever that will be), praying the Pentax FF will get a totally new and hopefully state-of-art AF, and the K-3 successor will then inherit this one


Frankly, the current K-3 is not yet a camera which I could imagine using happily for years, due to the AF (NB: I like shooting people, if you don't your mileage may vary of course)
Well, i have to disagree with you here. Before signing for Ricoh, i was at Nikon. I had also the D7100 in my bag, and i have used it very much! The AF system is much better then on the K-3, but that is pretty much it. The sensor is not as good as K-3. More noise on higher ISO too. The K-3 is with Sony sensor. The D7100 have a Toshiba one. And the Toshiba version is not as good as the Sony one. I use the K-3 in professional work. I almost never could that with the D7100. The K-3 is the first camera on the new road for Ricoh/Pentax, so this is just the beginning. The coming FF will be stunning..Im shure! They have told me that they will improve the AF system in the future. So i am really looking forward to the future. No matter how good the K-3 is, FF walks over a APS-C sensor in most cases

02-28-2015, 05:14 AM - 1 Like   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
I don't think we can claim that the K-3 would be the best APSC out there, as long as there's the Nikon D7100 (or in the near future the D7200) having an equivalent sensor, but a (far?) better autofocus system.


I hope, that the K-3 successor will become a hard rival to the top Nikon APSC (whatever that will be), praying the Pentax FF will get a totally new and hopefully state-of-art AF, and the K-3 successor will then inherit this one


Frankly, the current K-3 is not yet a camera which I could imagine using happily for years, due to the AF (NB: I like shooting people, if you don't your mileage may vary of course)
The K3 has a significantly deeper buffer than the D7100 and doesn't band at high ISO. The 7d mk II is probably the best APS-C camera from a sports stand point but it sells for twice as much as a K3 too.
02-28-2015, 06:00 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The 7d mk II is probably the best APS-C camera from a sports stand point but it sells for twice as much as a K3 too.
The K-3 has better image quality than the costly 7D - more pixels, better noise, more dynamic range and colour depth. Lighter and smaller body, too.

The NX-1 may have the 7D covered in sports. Certainly frame rate, interested to see what the AF is like. But once again, this is a very expensive camera.
02-28-2015, 06:57 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
The AF system is much better then on the K-3, but [...] The K-3 is with Sony sensor. The D7100 have a Toshiba one. And the Toshiba version is not as good as the Sony one
Interesting. I saw on DXOMark.com, the the D7100 (the Toshiba) has both better dynamic range, and less noise, at all ISO Levels. And suspected, that this may be why Nikon preferred the Toshiba over Sony.
But I tend to believe what you say as well I guess then it must be the type of noise. Even if the Toshiba was technically superior (less overal noise and higher dynamic range then Sony), the type of noise (i.e. with banding) may be more annoying and more visible in practice.
Let's hope the next variant of a 24 MP sensor will marry the benefits of both Tosh and Sony. Maybe the competition fuels some innovation

QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
The coming FF will be stunning..Im shure!
What about the recent contradictions On one hand, you mentioned, that Pentax wanted to attract Canon and Nikon Professionals. Yes, then the Pentax FF better be stunning (albeit very expensive), because no CaNikon Pro would leave his/her CaNikon system behind for a budget/entry level Pentax system.
On the other Hand, there were rumors (possibly a hoax?) about a 2000 Euros RRP, which would be clearly entry level. That budget would probably only allow for a K-3 with a FF sensor plus some secondary "me to" features (e.g. wifi, tilting screen, etc)? That wouldn't be "stunning" enough to attract CaNikon guys, of course.
So either this 2000,- is a hoax, or Ricoh changed their mind last minute?


QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
They have told me that they will improve the AF system in the future.
Thumbs up!

Last edited by Frater; 02-28-2015 at 07:10 AM.
02-28-2015, 07:06 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Interesting. I saw on DXOMark.com, the the D7100 (the Toshiba) has both better dynamic range, and less noise, at all ISO Levels. And suspected, that this may be why Nikon preferred the Toshiba over Sony.
But I tend to believe what you say as well I guess then it must be the type of noise. Even if the Toshiba was technically superior (less overal noise and higher dynamic range then Sony), the type of noise (i.e. with banding) may be more annoying and more visible in practice.
Let's hope the next variant of a 24 MP sensor will marry the benefits of both Tosh and Sony. Maybe the competition fuels some innovation
I really dont care about online pixelpeepers. I relate to real life experience. I did hardly ever go to ISO3200 with the D7100 (it was just a backup, but still), but with the K-3 is no problem most times.

QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
What about the recent contradictions On one hand, you mentioned, that Pentax wanted to attract Canon and Nikon Professionals. Yes, then the Pentax FF better be stunning, because no CaNikon Pro would leave his/her CaNikon system behind for a budget/entry level Pentax system.
On the other Hand, there were rumors (possibly a hoax?) about a 2000 Euros RRP, which would be clearly entry level. That budget would probably only allow for a K-3 with a decent FF sensor plus some secondary "me to" features (e.g. wifi, tilting screen, etc)? That wouldn't be "stunning" enough to attract CaNikon guys, of course.
So either this 2000€ is a hoax, or Ricoh changed their mind last minute?
It is just rumors. I have no idea about the price yet, same goes for all the employees i know in Ricoh. How can they know the price before the camera is 100% set and finished? Only time will tell what is real. But the FF will not be a entry level camera. They might come up with to different versions maybe, but nothing as i know of at this moment.

02-28-2015, 07:35 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Frankly, the current K-3 is not yet a camera which I could imagine using happily for years, due to the AF (NB: I like shooting people, if you don't your mileage may vary of course)
Please tell us about your AF experience with the K-3, and why it is not good for shooting people?
02-28-2015, 07:37 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I have no idea about the price yet, same goes for all the employees i know in Ricoh. How can they know the price before the camera is 100% set and finished?

True, so we can conclude safely, that the 2000-EUR hoax was really just a hoax and nothing else. If even Ricoh employees don't know about the price, how could dealers know



Two FF bodies would have been too ambitious anyway. Makes me return to the assumption, that the one-and-only FF Body will cost somewhere between 3000 EUR/GBP/USD, and the price of the 645z ... still enough bandwith for speculations


Anything between 1000-2000 is probably the natural price corridor for a K-3 successor.
02-28-2015, 07:40 AM   #75
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The K-3 is less than a year old... and the competition hasn't released anything that surpasses it...

If you remember the time Pentax execs shared their upgrade cycle, the same design team is responsible for the K-3, the Full Frame and the 645z. The FF was somewhat delayed in the cycle because the new MF sensor became available and it got jumped in the order by the 645z ,which came out close to a year ahead of the previously announced schedule. That put the FF back 6 months while they worked on the 645z. Now they are working on the FF. They won't even be looking at a K-3 successor until the FF is out. SO 6 months after the FF is released, look for something.

This is all reading between the lines so take it worth a grain of salt, but my guess is with an FF now in the cycle, you're going to be seeing 18 month renewals instead of 12, and that any years that's a 645 year, (which is every 4 or 5 years) there's going to be a 6 month monkey wrench in the works. Although who knows?, maybe the FF will be a 2 year cycle and only in non MF years. Unless FF sales are going to be a lot more than we think, it's unlikely either the MF or FF will have a dedicated design team any time soon and they'll continue to use the guys who work on the high end APS-c to design those two bodies.

Think "little camera company" as in "not Nikon, not Canon."

Last edited by normhead; 02-28-2015 at 07:49 AM.
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