PC socket non-standard thread

asharpe · 03-06-2015, 11:39 PM

So, I finally got a modern flash, and it has (besides wireless) a PC socket. It is the kind that screws in for a more secure fit. Aha! says I, the K-3 has a PC socket, and there is a cover for it that screws in. Surely Pentax made this a standard screw PC socket, and the cover simply screws into the standard thread! Well, no. The socket is too small to accept the standard threaded PC connector. Why would *anyone* have made a screw cap to cover a PC connector, without considering that there was an actual standard?!

Sigh.

rawr · 03-07-2015, 03:58 AM

I don't see the drama.

Even my 30 year old flashes with PC sync connectors plug straight into the K-3.

The little screw-in cap is just to weather seal the PC sync socket when not in use. It's not meant to form part of any PC sync cable.

Arjay Bee · 03-07-2015, 04:42 AM

My experience agrees with rawr.

But does your connector make contact without being screwed in?

Ontarian50 · 03-07-2015, 09:51 AM

The screw in PC cord should be a standard thing, especially since I believe Nikon introduced it on their F2 in 1971. But there were competing designs - Rollei had their clip-in cords for years.
Everyone else just went along with push-in, fall-out PC cords for years after. It looked like the PC cord was on its way out in the 1980s when TTL connecting cords needed all the extra pins in the hot shoe to keep full connection.
But here we are in 2015 and still suffering with that unreliable, fiddly, and delicate PC connector that was originally intended to be on little leaf shutters on folding cameras in the 1940s. Sigh.

asharpe · 03-07-2015, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by rawr

The little screw-in cap is just to weather seal the PC sync socket when not in use. It's not meant to form part of any PC sync cable.

My point exactly, thank you. There is a standard; Pentax chose not to use it.

Originally posted by Arjay Bee

But does your connector make contact without being screwed in?

Of course. It is compatible with both screw-in and older style non-screw-in. That's the point. The screw-in PC connector is not a new-fangled invention; it's been there for many years. And since Pentax decided to use a weather sealing cover over the PC socket, then why *not* use a connector that already has threads?

By the way, the way of the future is in the Yongnuo flashes that perform extremely well, well above their price point. They are a wireless flash, certainly, but they have a PC connector, too. And instead of just sloughing it off as a checkbox item, it has a screw-in PC connector. Basically, if you are *going* to use a PC connector on a new device, there is no excuse *not* to use the screw-in type, because they accept the old PC connectors, too.

**monochrome** · 03-07-2015, 12:41 PM

That PC Socket design has probably been around for decades. They might have just included it because they have a supply of those parts on hand, or maybe they just reused engineering already tested and proven.

What do Nikon and Canon do? What do Fuji and Samsung and Oly do?

asharpe · 03-07-2015, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

What do Nikon and Canon do? What do Fuji and Samsung and Oly do?

Well, Pentax didn't get a strong following by doing what the other guys did. In fact, they tended to follow Pentax, sometimes. Most cameras don't even *come* with a PC connector, so why not do it right, when you've made a decision to do so? But, from FlashZebra.com: Screwlock PC Connectors : "the "Screwlock PC" connector is often referred to as a "Nikon Screwlock PC" connector, but it is used on a wide variety of photographic gear including Canon, Olympus, Minolta, etc., and not just Nikon."

**monochrome** · 03-07-2015, 02:36 PM - **1 Like**

Small Beer if you ask me.

If the PC Socket is the only thing left for people to get cranked up about Ricoh must be doing just fine.

narual · 03-07-2015, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by asharpe

My point exactly, thank you. There is a standard; Pentax chose not to use it.

No, there is a standard, and Pentax chose to use it.

They just didn't choose to use the far less common standard you prefer. Don't confuse the two concepts. They followed the prevailing standard that provides the greatest compatibility across the board.

Arjay Bee · 03-07-2015, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by asharpe

the way of the future is in the Yongnuo flashes that perform extremely well, well above their price point. They are a wireless flash, certainly, but they have a PC connector, too.

Thank you for that - might look at one of those as I need a replacement for a Sigma that has a broken foot and may cost as much to repair as a new Yongnuo. - and still be inferior.

asharpe · 03-08-2015, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

If the PC Socket is the only thing left for people to get cranked up about Ricoh must be doing just fine.

They are. They could do better.

asharpe · 03-08-2015, 11:03 AM

It appears that the screw lock is not that uncommon. Here it is, on the 580 EXII flash from Canon 580ex II, is the pc/sync terminal a screw lock ?: Canon EOS 7D / 10D - 70D Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review . Note that the first answer is wrong; the later replies confirm that it does have it. And it also appears that even on an 8MP Canon 20D, it had a screw lock PC on the body. So, *now* what excuse is there? The only viable answer is that in Ricoh's case, it was indeed just a checklist item, and they didn't think that it was worth it. But as I said, had they considered that they wanted a screw cap to cover the socket, and there was already a socket in production that already had a thread, and that their custom PC socket would most likely cost more than an equivalent standard screw lock connector... We'll see what the full-frame model has.

And of course, not having the screw lock PC connector is *not* a big deal, but having these discussions on pentaxforums is what these forums are all about. So, drama or no drama, when we talk about design issues, try to keep the topic on design issues, and not on whether you think that some poster is complaining just to complain.

stevebrot · 03-08-2015, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by asharpe

standard threaded PC connector

There is no such thing. The ISO standard PC connection is push-in. Screw-type locks go back a long ways, but they are uncommon, despite the list on the linked reference you provided. I have several cameras with a PC lock*, but each is different and none use the Nikon system. FWIW, none of my flashes support this system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prontor-Compur

After spending a bit of time on the link you provided, it occurred to me that cameras with the Nikon-type screw-in PC are incompatible with the standard PC connector, due to the depth of the female side. Mating up would require a fiddly adapter, a replacement cable (courtesy of the site you linked to), or a flash that shipped with such cable.

Steve

* Four: Kiev 4A, Zorki 4K, FED 2, and Canon P. The Canon P is a proprietary bayonet lock and the other three use the clip system sometimes seen with vintage flash gear.

stevebrot · 03-08-2015, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by asharpe

So, I finally got a modern flash, and it has (besides wireless) a PC socket. It is the kind that screws in for a more secure fit.

Just for grins, what flash did you buy and did it also come with a standard (non-screw) PC socket? If it did not, I would suggest that your beef should be with the flash maker for selling a unit with limited compatibility.

Steve

sterretje · 03-09-2015, 08:51 AM

You can always buy something like Nikon AS-15 Sync Terminal Adapter (Hot Shoe to PC) 3066 B&H

I agree that it is a bit silly if they are compatible (screw version on camera can accept normal PC); not sure if that is the case. It might be a size issue as well. But at least we have a PC connector; the direct Nikon competitors of the K-5 (D7000) and K-3 (D7100) don't have it.

//Edit
For this discussion, I think it's totally irrelevant what type of connector is at the flash side; a dedicated plug as on the Metz45 CT-1, a 2.5mm jack or whatever).

03-06-2015, 11:39 PM	#1
asharpe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 221	PC socket non-standard thread So, I finally got a modern flash, and it has (besides wireless) a PC socket. It is the kind that screws in for a more secure fit. Aha! says I, the K-3 has a PC socket, and there is a cover for it that screws in. Surely Pentax made this a standard screw PC socket, and the cover simply screws into the standard thread! Well, no. The socket is too small to accept the standard threaded PC connector. Why would anyone have made a screw cap to cover a PC connector, without considering that there was an actual standard?! Sigh.

03-07-2015, 09:51 AM	#4
Ontarian50 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 530	Screw in PC is a rare thing The screw in PC cord should be a standard thing, especially since I believe Nikon introduced it on their F2 in 1971. But there were competing designs - Rollei had their clip-in cords for years. Everyone else just went along with push-in, fall-out PC cords for years after. It looked like the PC cord was on its way out in the 1980s when TTL connecting cords needed all the extra pins in the hot shoe to keep full connection. But here we are in 2015 and still suffering with that unreliable, fiddly, and delicate PC connector that was originally intended to be on little leaf shutters on folding cameras in the 1940s. Sigh.

03-07-2015, 12:11 PM	#5
asharpe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 221 Original Poster	Originally posted by rawr The little screw-in cap is just to weather seal the PC sync socket when not in use. It's not meant to form part of any PC sync cable. My point exactly, thank you. There is a standard; Pentax chose not to use it. Originally posted by Arjay Bee But does your connector make contact without being screwed in? Of course. It is compatible with both screw-in and older style non-screw-in. That's the point. The screw-in PC connector is not a new-fangled invention; it's been there for many years. And since Pentax decided to use a weather sealing cover over the PC socket, then why not use a connector that already has threads? By the way, the way of the future is in the Yongnuo flashes that perform extremely well, well above their price point. They are a wireless flash, certainly, but they have a PC connector, too. And instead of just sloughing it off as a checkbox item, it has a screw-in PC connector. Basically, if you are going to use a PC connector on a new device, there is no excuse not to use the screw-in type, because they accept the old PC connectors, too. Last edited by asharpe; 03-07-2015 at 12:18 PM.

03-07-2015, 02:36 PM - 1 Like	#8
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Small Beer if you ask me. If the PC Socket is the only thing left for people to get cranked up about Ricoh must be doing just fine. Last edited by monochrome; 03-07-2015 at 04:13 PM.

03-08-2015, 03:38 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by asharpe standard threaded PC connector There is no such thing. The ISO standard PC connection is push-in. Screw-type locks go back a long ways, but they are uncommon, despite the list on the linked reference you provided. I have several cameras with a PC lock, but each is different and none use the Nikon system. FWIW, none of my flashes support this system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prontor-Compur After spending a bit of time on the link you provided, it occurred to me that cameras with the Nikon-type screw-in PC are incompatible with the standard PC connector, due to the depth of the female side. Mating up would require a fiddly adapter, a replacement cable (courtesy of the site you linked to), or a flash that shipped with such cable. Steve Four: Kiev 4A, Zorki 4K, FED 2, and Canon P. The Canon P is a proprietary bayonet lock and the other three use the clip system sometimes seen with vintage flash gear. Last edited by stevebrot; 03-08-2015 at 04:25 PM.

03-07-2015, 03:58 AM	#2
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	I don't see the drama. Even my 30 year old flashes with PC sync connectors plug straight into the K-3. The little screw-in cap is just to weather seal the PC sync socket when not in use. It's not meant to form part of any PC sync cable.

03-07-2015, 04:42 AM	#3
Arjay Bee Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Horn Island, Torres Straits, Q Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,715	My experience agrees with rawr. But does your connector make contact without being screwed in?

03-07-2015, 12:41 PM	#6
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	That PC Socket design has probably been around for decades. They might have just included it because they have a supply of those parts on hand, or maybe they just reused engineering already tested and proven. What do Nikon and Canon do? What do Fuji and Samsung and Oly do?

03-07-2015, 01:50 PM	#7
asharpe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 221 Original Poster	Originally posted by monochrome What do Nikon and Canon do? What do Fuji and Samsung and Oly do? Well, Pentax didn't get a strong following by doing what the other guys did. In fact, they tended to follow Pentax, sometimes. Most cameras don't even come with a PC connector, so why not do it right, when you've made a decision to do so? But, from FlashZebra.com: Screwlock PC Connectors : "the "Screwlock PC" connector is often referred to as a "Nikon Screwlock PC" connector, but it is used on a wide variety of photographic gear including Canon, Olympus, Minolta, etc., and not just Nikon."

03-07-2015, 03:40 PM	#9
narual Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South Bend (Notre Dame), Indiana Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,988	Originally posted by asharpe My point exactly, thank you. There is a standard; Pentax chose not to use it. No, there is a standard, and Pentax chose to use it. They just didn't choose to use the far less common standard you prefer. Don't confuse the two concepts. They followed the prevailing standard that provides the greatest compatibility across the board.

03-07-2015, 04:49 PM	#10
Arjay Bee Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Horn Island, Torres Straits, Q Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,715	Originally posted by asharpe the way of the future is in the Yongnuo flashes that perform extremely well, well above their price point. They are a wireless flash, certainly, but they have a PC connector, too. Thank you for that - might look at one of those as I need a replacement for a Sigma that has a broken foot and may cost as much to repair as a new Yongnuo. - and still be inferior.

03-08-2015, 12:29 AM	#11
asharpe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 221 Original Poster	Originally posted by monochrome If the PC Socket is the only thing left for people to get cranked up about Ricoh must be doing just fine. They are. They could do better.

03-08-2015, 11:03 AM	#12
asharpe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 221 Original Poster	It appears that the screw lock is not that uncommon. Here it is, on the 580 EXII flash from Canon 580ex II, is the pc/sync terminal a screw lock ?: Canon EOS 7D / 10D - 70D Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review . Note that the first answer is wrong; the later replies confirm that it does have it. And it also appears that even on an 8MP Canon 20D, it had a screw lock PC on the body. So, now what excuse is there? The only viable answer is that in Ricoh's case, it was indeed just a checklist item, and they didn't think that it was worth it. But as I said, had they considered that they wanted a screw cap to cover the socket, and there was already a socket in production that already had a thread, and that their custom PC socket would most likely cost more than an equivalent standard screw lock connector... We'll see what the full-frame model has. And of course, not having the screw lock PC connector is not a big deal, but having these discussions on pentaxforums is what these forums are all about. So, drama or no drama, when we talk about design issues, try to keep the topic on design issues, and not on whether you think that some poster is complaining just to complain.

03-08-2015, 04:15 PM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by asharpe So, I finally got a modern flash, and it has (besides wireless) a PC socket. It is the kind that screws in for a more secure fit. Just for grins, what flash did you buy and did it also come with a standard (non-screw) PC socket? If it did not, I would suggest that your beef should be with the flash maker for selling a unit with limited compatibility. Steve

03-09-2015, 08:51 AM	#15
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	You can always buy something like Nikon AS-15 Sync Terminal Adapter (Hot Shoe to PC) 3066 B&H I agree that it is a bit silly if they are compatible (screw version on camera can accept normal PC); not sure if that is the case. It might be a size issue as well. But at least we have a PC connector; the direct Nikon competitors of the K-5 (D7000) and K-3 (D7100) don't have it. //Edit For this discussion, I think it's totally irrelevant what type of connector is at the flash side; a dedicated plug as on the Metz45 CT-1, a 2.5mm jack or whatever).

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