Flash or No Flash

D1N0 · 04-30-2015, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Operates the mirror and shutter at 6+ fps...

Steve

Separate motors in the K-3 shutter, mirror, aperture and of course screw drive. In old slr's it probably was al operated by ingenious springs.

K-3 | RICOH IMAGING

stevebrot · 04-30-2015, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Oh...I am sorry. I thought the mirror box was blamed as the cause for the bulk

Steve

FWIW, Here are some numbers. I added a Pentax MZ-6 into the mix since it has built-in winder (motor drive), PDAF, FF pentaprism, e-dials, and built-in flash.

Pentax Super Program
Size (W x H x D)
131 x 86.5 x 47.5 mm (538246 mm^3)
490gm w/o film (battery weight is insignificant...button cells)

Pentax K-2S
Size (W x H x D)
122 x 91 x 72.5 mm (804895 mm^3)
678gm w/battery

Pentax MZ-6
Size (W x H x D)
135.5 x 92 x 63 mm (707112 mm^3)
400gm (!) w/o battery or film

Take away the SR and the rear LCD and the K-2S would be about the same size as the MZ-6. Add a real battery and film to the MZ-6 and the weight would be similar as well. So, it would appear that things are not as bloated as we might imagine.

Mind you, the MZ-6 is FF 35mm and that is where things get a little sticky, though I don't see why a FF dSLR should not be possible in a package not too much larger than a Sony A7II + Novoflex K-mount adapter.

Steve

stevebrot · 04-30-2015, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by D1N0

Separate motors in the K-3 shutter, mirror, aperture and of course screw drive. In old slr's it probably was al operated by ingenious springs.

K-3 | RICOH IMAGING

In old SLRs (I have a few of them), the motor drive acted against the mechanical film wind/shutter cock mechanism. The cocking mechanism was spring-tensioned. I don't know how things work in a modern film SLR such as the Nikon F6. I suspect the shutter/mirror to be essentially similar to that in a high-end Nikon dSLR.

Nikon F6
Size W x H x D
157 x 119 x 79mm (1475957 mm^3)
975gm w/o film or batteries
(8 fps, 30s - 1/8000s shutter speeds, top and rear LCD display + built-in data back, water and dust resistant, alloy chassis w/ mag allow outer cover)

Steve

(...would like to shoot with an F6 just once...)

Dlanor Sekao · 05-01-2015, 03:54 PM

Looking at poll results.........So 2/3 or roughly 66 out of 100 it just doesn't matter either way , and only a bit over 10% that was a "Deal Breaker"...Interesting.
I guess Pentax did take this into consideration for the Majority of users. Im sure it was a "majority" decision.....hence the "Correct" decision for what the K3II offers in features.....According to this poll they got it Right !

Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; 05-01-2015 at 04:01 PM.

normhead · 05-01-2015, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by Dlanor Sekao

Looking at poll results.........So 2/3 or roughly 66 out of 100 it just doesn't matter either way , and only a bit over 10% that was a "Deal Breaker"...Interesting.
I guess Pentax did take this into consideration for the Majority of users. Im sure it was a "majority" decision.....hence the "Correct" decision for what the K3II offers in features.....According to this poll they got it Right !

Anyone suggesting Pentax isn't a bunch of dummies gets a rough ride around here. You're new, I think they're taking it easy on you. Mind you the guys that have been trashing Pentax for not doing enough to stay current are taking some serious body blows right now. I guess we'll have to wait for them to catch their breath before we here more doom and gloom.

Dlanor Sekao · 05-01-2015, 08:46 PM

Polls ask for Opinions. I gave mine. Too bad someone would ever get condemned just because they happen to think they could be very happy with the Night Blind P.O.S made by a bunch of Dummies....lol.

Not a Number · 05-01-2015, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Mind you the guys that have been trashing Pentax for not doing enough to stay current are taking some serious body blows right now. I guess we'll have to wait for them to catch their breath before we here more doom and gloom.

Yes, have no fear the NFMsNFA crowd are licking their wounds. They'll be back louder than ever with next announcement from Ricoh.

I think it was wise of Adam to hold the results until the poll closed.

Dlanor Sekao · 05-01-2015, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Yes, have no fear the NFMsNFA crowd are licking their wounds. They'll be back louder than ever with next announcement from Ricoh.

I think it was wise of Adam to hold the results until the poll closed.

BTW....I don't understand the NFMsNFA abbreviation ?? Could you translate please. Thanks.

Not a Number · 05-01-2015, 10:20 PM

Not For Me so Not for Anybody - a mindset that whenever Ricoh announces or releases a product that doesn't suit these people that nobody else would want to (or should) buy it either - the extreme being that the product should not exist in the first place.

Dlanor Sekao · 05-01-2015, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Not For Me so Not for Anybody - a mindset that whenever Ricoh announces or releases a product that doesn't suit these people that nobody else would want to (or should) buy it either - the extreme being that the product should not exist in the first place.

Ok...thanks. Ive seen it several times and came up with a bunch of things , none of which could be repeated here without trouble....lol. Now I Got it. Sometimes I almost have to tip toe around here just to be happy , and its kinda hard to learn "Friend" from "Foe" on here at times.
I just learned to use my NFMsNFA "Block User" button in my profile for a couple of those types......Quite handy and functions flawless !

**RobA_Oz** · 05-01-2015, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Not For Me so Not for Anybody - a mindset that whenever Ricoh announces or releases a product that doesn't suit these people that nobody else would want to (or should) buy it either - the extreme being that the product should not exist in the first place.

That goes for just about anything in life, doesn't it? We shouldn't feel special about it, here. It's perverse, but then again, dissatisfaction drives much human activity.

**Rondec** · 05-02-2015, 02:44 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Not a Number

Not For Me so Not for Anybody - a mindset that whenever Ricoh announces or releases a product that doesn't suit these people that nobody else would want to (or should) buy it either - the extreme being that the product should not exist in the first place.

It's an unfortunate point of view. People are rabid on the internet with regard to the products that they want and get immensely upset if something different (even if it is just a little different) is released. But there really isn't anything wrong with Pentax experimenting and releasing cameras like the K-01 or the K-S1. Who cares if there are LEDs on the side of the camera?

In the end, I am afraid that even those folks are probably supporters of the brand, their forum postings end up hurting Pentax sales and thereby decreasing the chances that the cameras they actually want are released.

Yes, Pentax watches the forum to see how products are received, but I am sure that as big a deal will be sales and most of the people buying a new camera will not be a member here.

Dlanor Sekao · 05-02-2015, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

It's an unfortunate point of view. People are rabid on the internet with regard to the products that they want and get immensely upset if something different (even if it is just a little different) is released. But there really isn't anything wrong with Pentax experimenting and releasing cameras like the K-01 or the K-S1. Who cares if there are LEDs on the side of the camera?

In the end, I am afraid that even those folks are probably supporters of the brand, their forum postings end up hurting Pentax sales and thereby decreasing the chances that the cameras they actually want are released.

Yes, Pentax watches the forum to see how products are received, but I am sure that as big a deal will be sales and most of the people buying a new camera will not be a member here.

You have a very valid point that made me stop and think about the next time I use comments like the references to the HociR and 2kraM , or joking about Spaceship landing lights. I have Pre-Ordered the K3II and cant wait to get my hands on it.
Im not at all offended by Ricoh being plastered on my cameras somewhere and actually see it as kinda nice because my Ricoh legacy lenses seem to fit in better overall with a Pentax branded body.
It was only because of the huge backlash here I "learned" that jumping on the Discontent and Bashing bandwagon seemed to be so acceptable.
Figured it was proper etiquette to jump on the bandwagon to be shall I say more "accepted" and "correct" here on the Forum so at times sorta emulated some of the outspoken unhappy members here , without thinking at all about the consequences long term.
Hmmmm....thinking....thinking..... Thanks !

alvianocam · 05-02-2015, 05:17 AM

if I'm depending on location shooting, where it is necessary then I will wear lighting

Parallax · 05-02-2015, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by normhead

At least as important as "I think, therefore I is."

...... or The Husbands' Lament: "I spoke (or acted), therefore I'm wrong".

View Poll Results: How important is the on-board flash?
I would consider buying the K-3 II regardless of whether or not it has a flash	163	65.20%
I may buy the K-3 II, but the lack of a flash is discouraging	59	23.60%
I would not buy the K-3 II because it lacks a flash	28	11.20%
Voters: 250. You may not vote on this poll

04-30-2015, 03:16 PM	#168
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by D1N0 Separate motors in the K-3 shutter, mirror, aperture and of course screw drive. In old slr's it probably was al operated by ingenious springs. K-3 \| RICOH IMAGING In old SLRs (I have a few of them), the motor drive acted against the mechanical film wind/shutter cock mechanism. The cocking mechanism was spring-tensioned. I don't know how things work in a modern film SLR such as the Nikon F6. I suspect the shutter/mirror to be essentially similar to that in a high-end Nikon dSLR. Nikon F6 Size W x H x D 157 x 119 x 79mm (1475957 mm^3) 975gm w/o film or batteries (8 fps, 30s - 1/8000s shutter speeds, top and rear LCD display + built-in data back, water and dust resistant, alloy chassis w/ mag allow outer cover) Steve (...would like to shoot with an F6 just once...) Last edited by stevebrot; 04-30-2015 at 03:29 PM.

05-01-2015, 08:46 PM	#171
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457	Polls ask for Opinions. I gave mine. Too bad someone would ever get condemned just because they happen to think they could be very happy with the Night Blind P.O.S made by a bunch of Dummies....lol. Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; 05-01-2015 at 09:49 PM.

05-01-2015, 09:44 PM	#173
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457	Originally posted by Not a Number Yes, have no fear the NFMsNFA crowd are licking their wounds. They'll be back louder than ever with next announcement from Ricoh. I think it was wise of Adam to hold the results until the poll closed. BTW....I don't understand the NFMsNFA abbreviation ?? Could you translate please. Thanks. Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; 05-01-2015 at 09:52 PM.

05-01-2015, 10:28 PM	#175
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457	Originally posted by Not a Number Not For Me so Not for Anybody - a mindset that whenever Ricoh announces or releases a product that doesn't suit these people that nobody else would want to (or should) buy it either - the extreme being that the product should not exist in the first place. Ok...thanks. Ive seen it several times and came up with a bunch of things , none of which could be repeated here without trouble....lol. Now I Got it. Sometimes I almost have to tip toe around here just to be happy , and its kinda hard to learn "Friend" from "Foe" on here at times. I just learned to use my NFMsNFA "Block User" button in my profile for a couple of those types......Quite handy and functions flawless ! Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; 05-01-2015 at 10:40 PM.

04-30-2015, 02:40 PM	#166
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by stevebrot Operates the mirror and shutter at 6+ fps... Steve Separate motors in the K-3 shutter, mirror, aperture and of course screw drive. In old slr's it probably was al operated by ingenious springs. K-3 \| RICOH IMAGING

04-30-2015, 03:12 PM	#167
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stevebrot Oh...I am sorry. I thought the mirror box was blamed as the cause for the bulk Steve FWIW, Here are some numbers. I added a Pentax MZ-6 into the mix since it has built-in winder (motor drive), PDAF, FF pentaprism, e-dials, and built-in flash. Pentax Super Program Size (W x H x D) 131 x 86.5 x 47.5 mm (538246 mm^3) 490gm w/o film (battery weight is insignificant...button cells) Pentax K-2S Size (W x H x D) 122 x 91 x 72.5 mm (804895 mm^3) 678gm w/battery Pentax MZ-6 Size (W x H x D) 135.5 x 92 x 63 mm (707112 mm^3) 400gm (!) w/o battery or film Take away the SR and the rear LCD and the K-2S would be about the same size as the MZ-6. Add a real battery and film to the MZ-6 and the weight would be similar as well. So, it would appear that things are not as bloated as we might imagine. Mind you, the MZ-6 is FF 35mm and that is where things get a little sticky, though I don't see why a FF dSLR should not be possible in a package not too much larger than a Sony A7II + Novoflex K-mount adapter. Steve

05-01-2015, 03:54 PM	#169
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457	Looking at poll results.........So 2/3 or roughly 66 out of 100 it just doesn't matter either way , and only a bit over 10% that was a "Deal Breaker"...Interesting. I guess Pentax did take this into consideration for the Majority of users. Im sure it was a "majority" decision.....hence the "Correct" decision for what the K3II offers in features.....According to this poll they got it Right ! Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; 05-01-2015 at 04:01 PM.

05-01-2015, 06:33 PM	#170
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Dlanor Sekao Looking at poll results.........So 2/3 or roughly 66 out of 100 it just doesn't matter either way , and only a bit over 10% that was a "Deal Breaker"...Interesting. I guess Pentax did take this into consideration for the Majority of users. Im sure it was a "majority" decision.....hence the "Correct" decision for what the K3II offers in features.....According to this poll they got it Right ! Anyone suggesting Pentax isn't a bunch of dummies gets a rough ride around here. You're new, I think they're taking it easy on you. Mind you the guys that have been trashing Pentax for not doing enough to stay current are taking some serious body blows right now. I guess we'll have to wait for them to catch their breath before we here more doom and gloom.

05-01-2015, 09:24 PM	#172
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by normhead Mind you the guys that have been trashing Pentax for not doing enough to stay current are taking some serious body blows right now. I guess we'll have to wait for them to catch their breath before we here more doom and gloom. Yes, have no fear the NFMsNFA crowd are licking their wounds. They'll be back louder than ever with next announcement from Ricoh. I think it was wise of Adam to hold the results until the poll closed.

05-01-2015, 10:20 PM	#174
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Not For Me so Not for Anybody - a mindset that whenever Ricoh announces or releases a product that doesn't suit these people that nobody else would want to (or should) buy it either - the extreme being that the product should not exist in the first place.

05-01-2015, 10:34 PM	#176
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by Not a Number Not For Me so Not for Anybody - a mindset that whenever Ricoh announces or releases a product that doesn't suit these people that nobody else would want to (or should) buy it either - the extreme being that the product should not exist in the first place. That goes for just about anything in life, doesn't it? We shouldn't feel special about it, here. It's perverse, but then again, dissatisfaction drives much human activity.

05-02-2015, 02:44 AM - 1 Like	#177
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Not a Number Not For Me so Not for Anybody - a mindset that whenever Ricoh announces or releases a product that doesn't suit these people that nobody else would want to (or should) buy it either - the extreme being that the product should not exist in the first place. It's an unfortunate point of view. People are rabid on the internet with regard to the products that they want and get immensely upset if something different (even if it is just a little different) is released. But there really isn't anything wrong with Pentax experimenting and releasing cameras like the K-01 or the K-S1. Who cares if there are LEDs on the side of the camera? In the end, I am afraid that even those folks are probably supporters of the brand, their forum postings end up hurting Pentax sales and thereby decreasing the chances that the cameras they actually want are released. Yes, Pentax watches the forum to see how products are received, but I am sure that as big a deal will be sales and most of the people buying a new camera will not be a member here.

05-02-2015, 04:17 AM	#178
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457	Originally posted by Rondec It's an unfortunate point of view. People are rabid on the internet with regard to the products that they want and get immensely upset if something different (even if it is just a little different) is released. But there really isn't anything wrong with Pentax experimenting and releasing cameras like the K-01 or the K-S1. Who cares if there are LEDs on the side of the camera? In the end, I am afraid that even those folks are probably supporters of the brand, their forum postings end up hurting Pentax sales and thereby decreasing the chances that the cameras they actually want are released. Yes, Pentax watches the forum to see how products are received, but I am sure that as big a deal will be sales and most of the people buying a new camera will not be a member here. You have a very valid point that made me stop and think about the next time I use comments like the references to the HociR and 2kraM , or joking about Spaceship landing lights. I have Pre-Ordered the K3II and cant wait to get my hands on it. Im not at all offended by Ricoh being plastered on my cameras somewhere and actually see it as kinda nice because my Ricoh legacy lenses seem to fit in better overall with a Pentax branded body. It was only because of the huge backlash here I "learned" that jumping on the Discontent and Bashing bandwagon seemed to be so acceptable. Figured it was proper etiquette to jump on the bandwagon to be shall I say more "accepted" and "correct" here on the Forum so at times sorta emulated some of the outspoken unhappy members here , without thinking at all about the consequences long term. Hmmmm....thinking....thinking..... Thanks ! Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; 05-02-2015 at 05:41 AM.

05-02-2015, 05:17 AM	#179
alvianocam Banned Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1	if I'm depending on location shooting, where it is necessary then I will wear lighting

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05-02-2015, 03:16 PM	#180
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by normhead At least as important as "I think, therefore I is." ...... or The Husbands' Lament: "I spoke (or acted), therefore I'm wrong".