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View Poll Results: How important is the on-board flash?
I would consider buying the K-3 II regardless of whether or not it has a flash 16365.20%
I may buy the K-3 II, but the lack of a flash is discouraging 5923.60%
I would not buy the K-3 II because it lacks a flash 2811.20%
Voters: 250. You may not vote on this poll

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04-23-2015, 07:36 AM   #31
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The K-3 is 'way more camera than I need, but this poll got me thinking (uh-oh!). In the past year, I estimate I used the onboard flash about a dozen times out of 10,000 shots. About half of that dozen were "I should know better" garbage. Of the others, I probably could have done as well or better with a small external flash, but I'll say the onboard was useful 6 out of 10,000 times. OTOH, every photo I've ever shared online, I've set the location information. So, for me, GPS would be useful 100% of the time versus the flash being useful 0.06% of the time. What seemed like a hard decision at first really is a no-brainer.

04-23-2015, 07:49 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
Power it down to 1/2 or 1/4 power and you define the shadows but don't overwhelm the picture to the point that it does not even look like a flash picture.
Can't agree more also use a slow shutter speed to get more ambient light, the flash will freeze any motion so even with slow shutter the photo won't be blurred.
I use pop up flash when I have to and always get pleasing results !
PS : always attach the tiny diffuser to the popup and it will be fine
04-23-2015, 07:55 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dlanor Sekao Quote
Is that why so many people want GPS ? I didn't take it into consideration at all because I couldn't really understand why I would Need it ? Is there an interface somewhere that allows a "searchable" base for images at a specific GPS location ?
If it was that could be very handy when trying to pull up specific images in a mess of unknown files.
You can draw a box around an area in Google maps and search you image files for all shots taken in the bounded area. Conversely, you can open an image file, link to Google maps and pinpoint the taking location and the direction of shooting.

For outdoor sportsmen GPS is a real, valuable feature.

It is very simple - if I am carrying my K-3 more than 50 feet from my house I'm carrying a Domke F4 Bag. Hmmmmm. Pockets. 55~300? Flash? O-GPS1?

I'll trade OBF for this utility and a 201FG every day of the week.

If I'm REALLY just out for a walk a K-3 is overkill - I have a K-01 in my pocket with a DA40/2.8 Ltd. mounted. Guess what is under that funny bump on the top of the K-01?

Last edited by monochrome; 04-23-2015 at 08:25 AM.
04-23-2015, 08:02 AM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Guess what is under that funny bump on the top of the K-01?
A viewfinder? (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

04-23-2015, 08:23 AM   #35
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I just bought the astrotracer/gps device for $200. Having it built in the K3 II, is a plus i think for new buyers, potential astro photographers. It also enables a very precise electronic compass in the camera. I do a lot of headshots for the playhouse i work at. Never use the built-in flash - always use a radio trigger - so cheap these days, and a remote flash. Produces a much better result IMO. Having the astro tracer O-gps1 on the camera eliminates the option to use radio trigger or enhanced video microphone at the same time. These might have been reasons for incorporating astro-tracer functions into K3II

Astro-tracer uses the Pentax IBIS function to track the stars without the star trails - so easy. For up to 5 min
04-23-2015, 08:26 AM - 2 Likes   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
A viewfinder? (Sorry, couldn't resist!)
Oh THANK YOU!!! I've been looking for the viewfinder since 2012!!!
04-23-2015, 08:53 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dlanor Sekao Quote
Is that why so many people want GPS ? I didn't take it into consideration at all because I couldn't really understand why I would Need it ? Is there an interface somewhere that allows a "searchable" base for images at a specific GPS location ?
If it was that could be very handy when trying to pull up specific images in a mess of unknown files.
what I do now is I make sure the times on my cameras are synchronized with the time on my GPS, when I get home I load my GPS files into Aperture my PP program, then I tell Aperture to ad the locations, the problem being if the times are off on one of the cameras used, I spend time adjusting the images, to get them to line up. Having it done by the camera at time of exposure is just way more accurate and pretty much fool proof. Once it's done a I can upload images to google earth, click on a location, and see a picture from there. Since I sometimes do trip reports after trip, it's also great to be able to make sure, when you're showing a picture of a location, you can double check to make sure the picture is from the right place. The problem being if you forget your GPS, there i no way add the info. So, I either have to carry a GPS or carry a Flash. The GPS I would use every time I go out with the camera. The flash... as i said, maybe 5 times year at most.
04-23-2015, 09:09 AM   #38
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For me, the answer is yes, I want a built in flash. Although certainly one can take better pics with a external or other flash, sometimes (often for me) I don't have one with me. I love hiking (sometimes into the night hours) and taking pictures of my escapades, and sometimes a flash is needed and I don't have one. So the below pic, although not a great photo, simply would not have happened without the built-in flash.

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04-23-2015, 09:17 AM   #39
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I would generally say no, it is not a deal breaker. I shot for some 35 years with film cameras having no built-in flash.

OTOH, when I have used the flash on my K-3 it was really useful. A pocket-able low power flash from Ricoh/Pentax as a companion product might be a good idea.

OTOH,...Oh, there is no other hand...

Steve
04-23-2015, 09:24 AM - 2 Likes   #40
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Almost everyone uses the built in flash at one time or another. To have to carry an additional flash when 90+% of the time it is just extra bulk does not make good sense. I don't use the safety flashers on my cars 99% of the time, and have never used the airbags, but I am damn glad both are there if needed.

Regards!
04-23-2015, 09:25 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
A pocket-able low power flash from Ricoh/Pentax as a companion product might be a good idea.
AF201FG Dimensions*

It uses 2 ea. AAA batteries, not 4 ea. AA batteries. IMHO that's about as pocketable as an off-camera flash can be.


* Special Note: It is only 1.20" deep.
04-23-2015, 09:41 AM - 1 Like   #42
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I'm really curious to know how/why they made that decision to remove the flash and put the gps unit instead.I'm pretty sure Ricoh engineers are capable enough to integrate a gps unit without removing the flash if they really wanted to. It looks almost like they wanted to remove the flash on purpose - because it is more Pro without one or whatever, and then figured "Oh, but we need to fill that hole with something then ... let's see we can't really add wifi since nobody will buy those FluCards anymore .. ah, nobody is buyng the o-gps1 unit - let's gut the remiainig ones we have in stock and put the internals in." .. Or maybe "Gosh, we can't make it work properly with M,K or M42 lenses anyway, so let's just take it out and spare ourselves the shame when we claim we supprt these 2 million legacy lenses"
And then - who is this camera really targeting ? Most people who wanted to upgrade already got K-3 and not many will be willing to throw another $1K so soon for almost the same camera and the others are probably saving for the FF.

Anyway, I have the o-gps1 unit for my k-5iis and I really like the concept of it (astrotracer!) but I rarely use it because ... i forgot to take it .. or battery ran out .. and it is just too bulky and inconvinient to leave it always on the camera.
So I suspect same will happen with the external flash - I'll only carry one if I absoutely know I'll need one (like going to a wedding, etc). And I guess the best flash is the one you have with you.

So I can understand people who say "Ok, what's the big deal, you just carry a flash in your bag, built-in flash sucks anyway" ... but for me the big reason for owning a Pentax camera is that I don't want to have "a bag" - just grab the camera and go - everything I need in one package - no need to protect it from the weather or dust or whatever, it's rugged and yet it is not bulky, it has great battery life and excellent picture quality.

Built in gps is a welcome addition but in the rare ocassions I need some fill flash I can't use a gps instead.
04-23-2015, 09:51 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
AF201FG Dimensions*

It uses 2 ea. AAA batteries, not 4 ea. AA batteries. IMHO that's about as pocketable as an off-camera flash can be.


* Special Note: It is only 1.20" deep.
Cool! I guess I must have been dozing when this product was announced. Do you think it will launch with the K-3II?


Steve
04-23-2015, 10:19 AM - 1 Like   #44
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I'm trying to remember the last time i popped up my flash...and it was by mistake while reaching for the "RAW" button which is assigned to auto bracketing. I had made a mental note if that thing pops up again, i might lay a piece of black tape over it to keep it closed. Thanks Pentax, for the tape.

---------- Post added 04-23-2015 at 10:23 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by npc Quote

... but for me the big reason for owning a Pentax camera is that I don't want to have "a bag" - just grab the camera and go - everything I need in one package -...

...
but the K3 did not go away, this is just a line extension. Nobody said Pentax is making a statement that onboard flash is not a desired feature, they have simply offered a variation of a popular model with different options.
Not everybody wants leather seats in their Jeep but some may want an onboard navigation system. 2 models meet 2 market segments.

Last edited by mikeSF; 04-25-2015 at 11:59 AM.
04-23-2015, 10:31 AM   #45
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A couple of the WA lenses I shoot with cant be used with on board flash anyway as the hoods/filters are huge and wont work at all. I use only fill but still have to carry a flash when using those lenses such as the Sammy 14 with Filter holder.I rarely use flash with such a wide angle lens but when I need it I have to have it. Have never popped up the flash on my earlier K3 even once except by accident.
Now on the K30....yes....I like it and use it indoors a bit , and also for fill with normal lenses and hoods.
Two different cameras , two different uses. like onboard flash on one....hate it on the other..... But I could live without it on both with no problem.
I never got used to relying on the on-board flash way back when it was all the latest rage. Always used off camera flash on a bracket of some kind and always got superior results because of it.
Sure its handy at times to have a pop-up flash especially for family and fun times , but when Im out getting serious about my images it doesnt ever get used.

Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; 04-23-2015 at 10:56 AM.
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