Flash or No Flash

**monochrome** · 04-23-2015, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Cool! I guess I must have been dozing when this product was announced. Do you think it will launch with the K-3II?

Steve

When announced in February the ship date was supposed to be March, 2015. So far not available at B&H or Webstore.

JimC1101 · 04-23-2015, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by mikeSF

I'm trying to remember the last time i popped up my flash...and it was by mistake while reaching for the "RAW" button which is assigned to auto bracketing. I had made a mental note if that thing pops up again, i might lay a piece of black tape over it to keep it closed. Thanks Pentax, for the tape.

---------- Post added 04-23-2015 at 10:23 AM ----------

but the K3 did not go away, this is just a market extension. Nobody said Pentax is making a statement that onboard flash is not a desired feature, they have simply offered a variation of a popular model with different options.
Not everybody wants leather seats in their Jeep but some may want an onboard navigation system. 2 models meet 2 market segments.

Agree, They had the K-5II and the K-5IIS and everyone was happy. Now if only they can have a FW update on the K-3 to include pixel shifting, everyone will be happy campers.

But with the fire sales that had been going on with the K-3, I wonder how long they will keep both options, I think this is new territory for Pentax to have more than 3 current DSLR camera bodies at the same time. It is nice to see.

redpit · 04-23-2015, 11:27 AM - **1 Like**

I prefer the GPS + astrophotography features to the built in flash. I can hardly remember using my flash as most of my lenses are big and its useless. I just have to buy a nice external flash which is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY even whith the K-3...

That's my opinion...

pesterle · 04-23-2015, 02:45 PM

I can count the number of times I've used the pop-up flash on my K-3, K-7, and *istD on zero hands.

**RobA_Oz** · 04-23-2015, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

Almost everyone uses the built in flash at one time or another. To have to carry an additional flash when 90+% of the time it is just extra bulk does not make good sense. I don't use the safety flashers on my cars 99% of the time, and have never used the airbags, but I am damn glad both are there if needed.

Regards!

You're drawing a long bow there, Rupert, comparing safety devices to an on-board flash (I suppose you could use it as an emergency beacon).

I probably won't buy the K-3ii, unless I can get a good price for my K-3, but in any event I'll be able to advertise it as one owner, on-board flash as new!

Having said that, my attention has now been drawn to the new AF201FG. Hmm.

robertchow999 · 04-23-2015, 03:42 PM

I wont miss the onboard flash as I don't ever use it. I'd rather use a flash gun on the hotshoe or off-camera anyway. GPS is nice but I think most people would get more use out of WiFi and NFC.

**jpzk** · 04-23-2015, 03:51 PM

Out of nearly 90,000 clicks on my K5, I probably used the built-in flash a dozen times .... when I need(ed) a flash, I use(d) the AF540 FGZ unit.

So, I don't think that the missing built-in flash would matter in my decision.

---------- Post added 04-23-15 at 06:52 PM ----------

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

Having said that, my attention has now been drawn to the new AF201FG. Hmm.

Ay idea if this little flash can trigger a remote unit? I believe it is able to be used as a slave, right?

**monochrome** · 04-23-2015, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

Out of nearly 90,000 clicks on my K5, I probably used the built-in flash a dozen times .... when I need(ed) a flash, I use(d) the AF540 FGZ unit.

So, I don't think that the missing built-in flash would matter in my decision.

---------- Post added 04-23-15 at 06:52 PM ----------

Ay idea if this little flash can trigger a remote unit? I believe it is able to be used as a slave, right?

Type: Clip-on, P-TTL auto flash unit with series control. (Copied and pasted from the website Features).

I THINK series control means it can trigger remote flashes. As usual, the Ricoh US site is light on details and detials are in Japanese even on the English pages on the Home website.

**monochrome** · 04-23-2015, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

Ay idea if this little flash can trigger a remote unit? I believe it is able to be used as a slave, right?

Type: Clip-on, P-TTL auto flash unit with series control. (Copied and pasted from the website Features).

I THINK series control means it can trigger remote flashes. [EDIT: - the B&H Features text does not include the line "Wireless Master/Slave TTL Functionality," As listed for the 540FGZ.] The Ricoh US site is light on details and details are in Japanese even on the English pages on the Home website.

It weighs less than 5 ounces (ex-batteries, 2x AAA) and is only 1.20 inches thick. GN66' @100ISO on APSc. Full power claim good for 80-100 cycles.

ScooterMaxi Jim · 04-23-2015, 04:53 PM

While I understand how important it is to relate the entire question to personal experience, stepping outside our own needs and assessing essential functionality should be a broader question to be addressed. In some businesses, I am sure that the GPS tag is essential, but having that accomplished in-camera is nothing more than a convenience. Beyond that, AFAIK a GPS unit never made the image itself better. However, there are times when having fill flash as close to the optical path is very helpful - even required - to get the best possible image. Those who brag that they have never resorted to use of an on-board flash are simply admitting that they haven't figured out how to use a benefit of the camera creatively - making an image better.

It isn't an essential need. I spent years shooting with a camera that cost 3x as much and didn't have the on-board of flash. However, I never viewed that as a badge of honor. I could have gotten better shots on occasion an on-board flash available. For the vast majority of shooters who explore those benefits - some good shots will be missed. Not sure GPS can make that claim - ever.

---------- Post added 04-23-2015 at 06:59 PM ----------

Originally posted by monochrome

Type: Clip-on, P-TTL auto flash unit with series control. (Copied and pasted from the website Features).

I THINK series control means it can trigger remote flashes. As usual, the Ricoh US site is light on details and details are in Japanese even on the English pages on the Home website.

It weighs less than 5 ounces (ex-batteries, 2x AAA) and is only 1.20 inches thick. GN20 for 100 cycles.

No doubt, it will serve as a controller - barely. It has full flash and 1/4 power as your only choices. As opposed to the eight power settings on the K-3. The 201 is a 20m flash - not really much more than on-board, actually. It takes two AAA batteries which means you'll get about 25 shots out of it. It almost certainly will be the definition of a garbage flash.

**MJSfoto1956** · 04-23-2015, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by JimC1101

Now if only they can have a FW update on the K-3 to include pixel shifting, everyone will be happy campers.

Probably won't ever happen as the key "electronic shutter used during pixel shifting" feature doesn't exist on the K-3.

Michael

**Rondec** · 04-23-2015, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim

While I understand how important it is to relate the entire question to personal experience, stepping outside our own needs and assessing essential functionality should be a broader question to be addressed. In some businesses, I am sure that the GPS tag is essential, but having that accomplished in-camera is nothing more than a convenience. Beyond that, AFAIK a GPS unit never made the image itself better. However, there are times when having fill flash as close to the optical path is very helpful - even required - to get the best possible image. Those who brag that they have never resorted to use of an on-board flash are simply admitting that they haven't figured out how to use a benefit of the camera creatively - making an image better.

It isn't an essential need. I spent years shooting with a camera that cost 3x as much and didn't have the on-board of flash. However, I never viewed that as a badge of honor. I could have gotten better shots on occasion an on-board flash available. For the vast majority of shooters who explore those benefits - some good shots will be missed. Not sure GPS can make that claim - ever.

---------- Post added 04-23-2015 at 06:59 PM ----------

No doubt, it will serve as a controller - barely. It has full flash and 1/4 power as your only choices. As opposed to the eight power settings on the K-3. The 201 is a 20m flash - not really much more than on-board, actually. It takes two AAA batteries which means you'll get about 25 shots out of it. It almost certainly will be the definition of a garbage flash.

Garbage flash. Not sure how much worse it is than the flash on the camera, considering that most people are saying that they use it in one in several hundred to a thousand shots. Some folks are saying that they always carry a diffuser for the pop flash with them, but if you are going to do that, why couldn't you just carry a small flash to pop in the hot shoe?

Shanti · 04-23-2015, 05:08 PM

The pop up with a diffuser on the hot shoe for me has been very useful--quick product shots,fill ,indoor cat action shots

,some macro... nice to know its there in case..
too bad no Nikon SB400 size flash for Pentax,small & can bounce..but no work on Pentax

but since it has the astrotracer,with money saved I can get a flash

**MJSfoto1956** · 04-23-2015, 05:29 PM

FYI, I use the Flashpoint (Meike) Mini Speedlight in manual mode with my Pentax K-3 and it works splendidly. Shown here in my kit: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/22-pentax-camera-field-accessories/273575...beautiful.html

and here is a review: MeiKe MK-300 is a cheap, mini TTL flash with full controls | Lighting Rumours

Michael

rfg · 04-23-2015, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by MadMathMind

Pop-up flash doesn't work with most lenses. I've tried to use it a few times but it casts a shadow with all but the smallest lenses.

This is an overstatement - I've used the pop up with my Sigma 17-70, which is far from a small lens and has a reasonably big hood. Sure at 17mm with the hood on it casts a big shadow but smaller with the hood reversed and none with the hood removed. Hood on the shadow is gone by around 25mm from memory.

View Poll Results: How important is the on-board flash?
I would consider buying the K-3 II regardless of whether or not it has a flash	163	65.20%
I may buy the K-3 II, but the lack of a flash is discouraging	59	23.60%
I would not buy the K-3 II because it lacks a flash	28	11.20%
Voters: 250. You may not vote on this poll

04-23-2015, 04:26 PM	#54
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by jpzk Ay idea if this little flash can trigger a remote unit? I believe it is able to be used as a slave, right? Type: Clip-on, P-TTL auto flash unit with series control. (Copied and pasted from the website Features). I THINK series control means it can trigger remote flashes. [EDIT: - the B&H Features text does not include the line "Wireless Master/Slave TTL Functionality," As listed for the 540FGZ.] The Ricoh US site is light on details and details are in Japanese even on the English pages on the Home website. It weighs less than 5 ounces (ex-batteries, 2x AAA) and is only 1.20 inches thick. GN66' @100ISO on APSc. Full power claim good for 80-100 cycles. Last edited by monochrome; 04-24-2015 at 10:07 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Abstract First time using bounce flash, or any kind of flash in public. Critiques welcome	csmoore	Photo Critique	7	07-02-2013 10:40 AM
Kx and Bower SFD926P flash=no flash?	hray	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	2	12-25-2011 06:22 PM
repair internal flash or buy an external flash	Capslock118	Pentax DSLR Discussion	11	11-23-2011 05:22 PM
Is Flash Sync Speed limited by the body or flash?	Reportage	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	16	09-16-2010 06:18 AM
Flash or no flash?	aleonx3	Post Your Photos!	5	10-28-2008 01:36 PM

04-23-2015, 11:11 AM	#46
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by stevebrot Cool! I guess I must have been dozing when this product was announced. Do you think it will launch with the K-3II? Steve When announced in February the ship date was supposed to be March, 2015. So far not available at B&H or Webstore.

04-23-2015, 11:23 AM	#47
JimC1101 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Fremont, Ca Photos: Albums Posts: 395	Originally posted by mikeSF I'm trying to remember the last time i popped up my flash...and it was by mistake while reaching for the "RAW" button which is assigned to auto bracketing. I had made a mental note if that thing pops up again, i might lay a piece of black tape over it to keep it closed. Thanks Pentax, for the tape. ---------- Post added 04-23-2015 at 10:23 AM ---------- but the K3 did not go away, this is just a market extension. Nobody said Pentax is making a statement that onboard flash is not a desired feature, they have simply offered a variation of a popular model with different options. Not everybody wants leather seats in their Jeep but some may want an onboard navigation system. 2 models meet 2 market segments. Agree, They had the K-5II and the K-5IIS and everyone was happy. Now if only they can have a FW update on the K-3 to include pixel shifting, everyone will be happy campers. But with the fire sales that had been going on with the K-3, I wonder how long they will keep both options, I think this is new territory for Pentax to have more than 3 current DSLR camera bodies at the same time. It is nice to see.

04-23-2015, 11:27 AM - 1 Like	#48
redpit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Greece Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,858	I prefer the GPS + astrophotography features to the built in flash. I can hardly remember using my flash as most of my lenses are big and its useless. I just have to buy a nice external flash which is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY even whith the K-3... That's my opinion...

04-23-2015, 02:45 PM	#49
pesterle Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 65	I can count the number of times I've used the pop-up flash on my K-3, K-7, and *istD on zero hands.

04-23-2015, 03:31 PM	#50
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,209	Originally posted by Rupert Almost everyone uses the built in flash at one time or another. To have to carry an additional flash when 90+% of the time it is just extra bulk does not make good sense. I don't use the safety flashers on my cars 99% of the time, and have never used the airbags, but I am damn glad both are there if needed. Regards! You're drawing a long bow there, Rupert, comparing safety devices to an on-board flash (I suppose you could use it as an emergency beacon). I probably won't buy the K-3ii, unless I can get a good price for my K-3, but in any event I'll be able to advertise it as one owner, on-board flash as new! Having said that, my attention has now been drawn to the new AF201FG. Hmm.

04-23-2015, 03:42 PM	#51
robertchow999 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 117	I wont miss the onboard flash as I don't ever use it. I'd rather use a flash gun on the hotshoe or off-camera anyway. GPS is nice but I think most people would get more use out of WiFi and NFC.

04-23-2015, 03:51 PM	#52
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Out of nearly 90,000 clicks on my K5, I probably used the built-in flash a dozen times .... when I need(ed) a flash, I use(d) the AF540 FGZ unit. So, I don't think that the missing built-in flash would matter in my decision. ---------- Post added 04-23-15 at 06:52 PM ---------- Originally posted by RobA_Oz Having said that, my attention has now been drawn to the new AF201FG. Hmm. Ay idea if this little flash can trigger a remote unit? I believe it is able to be used as a slave, right?

04-23-2015, 04:24 PM	#53
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by jpzk Out of nearly 90,000 clicks on my K5, I probably used the built-in flash a dozen times .... when I need(ed) a flash, I use(d) the AF540 FGZ unit. So, I don't think that the missing built-in flash would matter in my decision. ---------- Post added 04-23-15 at 06:52 PM ---------- Ay idea if this little flash can trigger a remote unit? I believe it is able to be used as a slave, right? Type: Clip-on, P-TTL auto flash unit with series control. (Copied and pasted from the website Features). I THINK series control means it can trigger remote flashes. As usual, the Ricoh US site is light on details and detials are in Japanese even on the English pages on the Home website.

04-23-2015, 04:53 PM	#55
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	While I understand how important it is to relate the entire question to personal experience, stepping outside our own needs and assessing essential functionality should be a broader question to be addressed. In some businesses, I am sure that the GPS tag is essential, but having that accomplished in-camera is nothing more than a convenience. Beyond that, AFAIK a GPS unit never made the image itself better. However, there are times when having fill flash as close to the optical path is very helpful - even required - to get the best possible image. Those who brag that they have never resorted to use of an on-board flash are simply admitting that they haven't figured out how to use a benefit of the camera creatively - making an image better. It isn't an essential need. I spent years shooting with a camera that cost 3x as much and didn't have the on-board of flash. However, I never viewed that as a badge of honor. I could have gotten better shots on occasion an on-board flash available. For the vast majority of shooters who explore those benefits - some good shots will be missed. Not sure GPS can make that claim - ever. ---------- Post added 04-23-2015 at 06:59 PM ---------- Originally posted by monochrome Type: Clip-on, P-TTL auto flash unit with series control. (Copied and pasted from the website Features). I THINK series control means it can trigger remote flashes. As usual, the Ricoh US site is light on details and details are in Japanese even on the English pages on the Home website. It weighs less than 5 ounces (ex-batteries, 2x AAA) and is only 1.20 inches thick. GN20 for 100 cycles. No doubt, it will serve as a controller - barely. It has full flash and 1/4 power as your only choices. As opposed to the eight power settings on the K-3. The 201 is a 20m flash - not really much more than on-board, actually. It takes two AAA batteries which means you'll get about 25 shots out of it. It almost certainly will be the definition of a garbage flash.

04-23-2015, 05:02 PM	#56
MJSfoto1956 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Boston Posts: 1,305	Originally posted by JimC1101 Now if only they can have a FW update on the K-3 to include pixel shifting, everyone will be happy campers. Probably won't ever happen as the key "electronic shutter used during pixel shifting" feature doesn't exist on the K-3. Michael

04-23-2015, 05:06 PM	#57
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim While I understand how important it is to relate the entire question to personal experience, stepping outside our own needs and assessing essential functionality should be a broader question to be addressed. In some businesses, I am sure that the GPS tag is essential, but having that accomplished in-camera is nothing more than a convenience. Beyond that, AFAIK a GPS unit never made the image itself better. However, there are times when having fill flash as close to the optical path is very helpful - even required - to get the best possible image. Those who brag that they have never resorted to use of an on-board flash are simply admitting that they haven't figured out how to use a benefit of the camera creatively - making an image better. It isn't an essential need. I spent years shooting with a camera that cost 3x as much and didn't have the on-board of flash. However, I never viewed that as a badge of honor. I could have gotten better shots on occasion an on-board flash available. For the vast majority of shooters who explore those benefits - some good shots will be missed. Not sure GPS can make that claim - ever. ---------- Post added 04-23-2015 at 06:59 PM ---------- No doubt, it will serve as a controller - barely. It has full flash and 1/4 power as your only choices. As opposed to the eight power settings on the K-3. The 201 is a 20m flash - not really much more than on-board, actually. It takes two AAA batteries which means you'll get about 25 shots out of it. It almost certainly will be the definition of a garbage flash. Garbage flash. Not sure how much worse it is than the flash on the camera, considering that most people are saying that they use it in one in several hundred to a thousand shots. Some folks are saying that they always carry a diffuser for the pop flash with them, but if you are going to do that, why couldn't you just carry a small flash to pop in the hot shoe?

04-23-2015, 05:08 PM	#58
Shanti Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Western Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 927	The pop up with a diffuser on the hot shoe for me has been very useful--quick product shots,fill ,indoor cat action shots ,some macro... nice to know its there in case.. too bad no Nikon SB400 size flash for Pentax,small & can bounce..but no work on Pentax but since it has the astrotracer,with money saved I can get a flash

04-23-2015, 05:29 PM	#59
MJSfoto1956 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Boston Posts: 1,305	FYI, I use the Flashpoint (Meike) Mini Speedlight in manual mode with my Pentax K-3 and it works splendidly. Shown here in my kit: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/22-pentax-camera-field-accessories/273575...beautiful.html and here is a review: MeiKe MK-300 is a cheap, mini TTL flash with full controls \| Lighting Rumours Michael

04-23-2015, 06:41 PM	#60
rfg Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 139	Originally posted by MadMathMind Pop-up flash doesn't work with most lenses. I've tried to use it a few times but it casts a shadow with all but the smallest lenses. This is an overstatement - I've used the pop up with my Sigma 17-70, which is far from a small lens and has a reasonably big hood. Sure at 17mm with the hood on it casts a big shadow but smaller with the hood reversed and none with the hood removed. Hood on the shadow is gone by around 25mm from memory.