Flash or No Flash

Not a Number · 04-27-2015, 11:00 PM

NFMsNFA abounds.

Dlanor Sekao · 04-27-2015, 11:51 PM

I think this thread....... along with Pentax........ flash or no flash.........Is Doomed ! lol.
Oh wait......can a "POLL" be Doomed ?
Its nice that Im a Pop-up flash hater ! The K3II is absolutely perfect for me and I get the latest model without feeling Im missing a single thing......finally.....for once.......There is happy dances in my thoughts over Pentax.

philbaum · 04-28-2015, 03:25 PM

If someone had asked me the flash question 2 years ago, i prob. would have said flash. But since then, i'm having really good results with off-camera flash/radio trigger usage. Inexpensively by the way, radio triggers are out there in many varieties.

There's something else i noticed last night. I was using the K5, and when i installed the O-gps1, it required me to work with a menu item each time. The K3 programming is different. You select astro tracer from a menu first time but after that you work from a modified Bulb menu. But this Bulb menu lets one select exposure times in 10 sec increments up to a max of 5 minutes. Its like a Manual exposure mode, except its no longer limited to 30 sec, but 5 minutes. I think this is a terrrific programming. 30 sec limitation on Manual mode would always push one into buying these funky cable switches. The only thing i; wondering about now is whether there is a way to use the 0-gps1 as a bulb mode modifier without the tracking mechanism working. If not, i'm hoping that Pentax will continue to improve the bulb exposure mode into a more dynamic mode than what all other makers have - hint, hint.

Anyway, i'm very cheered to see Ricoh trying more out of the box stuff with the K3II and their new lenses and the resolution enhancer. I like that old Pentax advertising program - BE INTERESTING - and now Pentax is. FF is going to be a wow product - and i will wait for it.

Driline · 04-28-2015, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Outis

To me, it just screams Afternoon at the DMV

LOL..I absolutely love that analogy. How many pro's do you see ever use a pop up flash.

Dave L · 04-28-2015, 07:25 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

AF201FG Dimensions*
It uses 2 ea. AAA batteries, not 4 ea. AA batteries. IMHO that's about as pocketable as an off-camera flash can be.
* Special Note: It is only 1.20" deep.

That flash size and weight is pretty much the same as O-GPS1, it's cheaper than O-GPS1, and both are lighter than the 15mm F4 limited, one of the lightest lenses you can buy.

I suspect that most Pentax K-5/k-3 owners carry at least one additional lens with them even when travelling light, and shoving a small 150 gram flash in their pocket or bag as well isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference to portability - but it will enhance flash quality and range compared to K-3. And with K-3 II there are all the other benefits that some will use. And it's going to be faster to fit than changing a lens.

No camera will ever please everyone but, really, I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding no OBF for K-3 II. It's a great example of Ricoh thinking out of the box, more of this, please!

Rupert · 04-29-2015, 06:47 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Driline

LOL..I absolutely love that analogy. How many pro's do you see ever use a pop up flash.

I don't know? Your turn....... How many Pro's do you see shooting Pentax? You really think no flash will draw them?

I won't buy a car without turn signals, even though I have two arms. Without air bags, even though I have seat belts.

...and I would never have this shot and many, many, more without OBF. You only have seconds to get many shots and if you have to mount a flash, those seconds are lost forever. Nope...I don't like any flash other than studio strobes, but I don't like seat belts either and I wouldn't drive without them.

What are the odds I'd get a second chance at this after I went back and got a flash to mount...or even if I had one handy in my bag? How many shots will you miss?

Regards!

JimC1101 · 04-29-2015, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Rupert

I don't know? Your turn....... How many Pro's do you see shooting Pentax? You really think no flash will draw them?

I won't buy a car without turn signals, even though I have two arms. Without air bags, even though I have seat belts.

...and I would never have this shot and many, many, more without OBF. You only have seconds to get many shots and if you have to mount a flash, those seconds are lost forever. Nope...I don't like any flash other than studio strobes, but I don't like seat belts either and I wouldn't drive without them.

What are the odds I'd get a second chance at this after I went back and got a flash to mount...or even if I had one handy in my bag? How many shots will you miss?

Regards!

Nice shot.

Driline · 04-29-2015, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

I don't know? Your turn....... How many Pro's do you see shooting Pentax? You really think no flash will draw them?

I won't buy a car without turn signals, even though I have two arms. Without air bags, even though I have seat belts.

...and I would never have this shot and many, many, more without OBF. You only have seconds to get many shots and if you have to mount a flash, those seconds are lost forever. Nope...I don't like any flash other than studio strobes, but I don't like seat belts either and I wouldn't drive without them.

What are the odds I'd get a second chance at this after I went back and got a flash to mount...or even if I had one handy in my bag? How many shots will you miss?

Regards!

Gee.... I feel really bad now. Please forgive my blatant stupidity.

Parallax · 04-29-2015, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

I won't buy a car without turn signals, even though I have two arms. Without air bags, even though I have seat belts.

Right. You never want to give up features. That's why when I bought a new computer last year I demanded that they install a floppy drive.

D1N0 · 04-29-2015, 12:27 PM

5.25 inch right?

Rupert · 04-29-2015, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Driline

Gee.... I feel really bad now. Please forgive my blatant stupidity.

Don't feel bad....I screw up about a dozen times a day...or more...but not on buying a camera with no flash!

Originally posted by Parallax

That's why when I bought a new computer last year I demanded that they install a floppy drive.

For you that makes good sense.

At your age all the information you can process in your shrinking brain will fit easily on a floppy disk!

Think of me this way......when the KWhatever comes out and the long line of Pros is there to grab it up because it has no flash I won't be in the line blocking your quick access!

Or...you might think of me some other way...that will be just fine with Otis!

Regards!

Parallax · 04-29-2015, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

At your age all the information you can process in your shrinking brain will fit easily on a floppy disk!

Rupert · 04-29-2015, 02:16 PM

Yes...I do know the feeling..better than you!

Regards!

...just kidding about those long lines, I bet the new buyers can get right in with hardly a wait!

Dlanor Sekao · 04-29-2015, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

Right. You never want to give up features. That's why when I bought a new computer last year I demanded that they install a floppy drive.

And I thought I was bad looking for Windows 7 !

ScooterMaxi Jim · 04-29-2015, 03:13 PM

Still waiting for the solution from the wannabe "pros" to those of us who travel light for assignments that demand it (using no more than one external flash), and understand the benefits of modest fill light coming from as close to the optical axis as is possible. It isn't as though pro-oriented cameras costing more than the K-3 - including FF models above entry level - don't include on-board flash. While some good arguments have been offered in favor of integrated GPS and astro-tracing, apparently the response to valid points regarding on-board flash needs is unnecessary - other than appearances or personal shooting habits. Nothing about the on-board flash capability makes it a good analogy to the floppy disc. In fact, Pentax made the on-board flash far more relevant in the expanded capabilities on the K-3, then promptly dropped it in the B version.

View Poll Results: How important is the on-board flash?
I would consider buying the K-3 II regardless of whether or not it has a flash	163	65.20%
I may buy the K-3 II, but the lack of a flash is discouraging	59	23.60%
I would not buy the K-3 II because it lacks a flash	28	11.20%
Voters: 250. You may not vote on this poll

04-27-2015, 11:51 PM	#122
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457	I think this thread....... along with Pentax........ flash or no flash.........Is Doomed ! lol. Oh wait......can a "POLL" be Doomed ? Its nice that Im a Pop-up flash hater ! The K3II is absolutely perfect for me and I get the latest model without feeling Im missing a single thing......finally.....for once.......There is happy dances in my thoughts over Pentax. Last edited by Dlanor Sekao; 04-28-2015 at 12:06 AM.

04-28-2015, 07:25 PM - 1 Like	#125
Dave L Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 306	Originally posted by monochrome AF201FG Dimensions* It uses 2 ea. AAA batteries, not 4 ea. AA batteries. IMHO that's about as pocketable as an off-camera flash can be. * Special Note: It is only 1.20" deep. That flash size and weight is pretty much the same as O-GPS1, it's cheaper than O-GPS1, and both are lighter than the 15mm F4 limited, one of the lightest lenses you can buy. I suspect that most Pentax K-5/k-3 owners carry at least one additional lens with them even when travelling light, and shoving a small 150 gram flash in their pocket or bag as well isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference to portability - but it will enhance flash quality and range compared to K-3. And with K-3 II there are all the other benefits that some will use. And it's going to be faster to fit than changing a lens. No camera will ever please everyone but, really, I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding no OBF for K-3 II. It's a great example of Ricoh thinking out of the box, more of this, please! Last edited by Dave L; 04-28-2015 at 07:32 PM.

04-29-2015, 02:16 PM	#133
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Yes...I do know the feeling..better than you! Regards!...just kidding about those long lines, I bet the new buyers can get right in with hardly a wait!

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04-27-2015, 11:00 PM	#121
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	NFMsNFA abounds.

04-28-2015, 03:25 PM	#123
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	If someone had asked me the flash question 2 years ago, i prob. would have said flash. But since then, i'm having really good results with off-camera flash/radio trigger usage. Inexpensively by the way, radio triggers are out there in many varieties. There's something else i noticed last night. I was using the K5, and when i installed the O-gps1, it required me to work with a menu item each time. The K3 programming is different. You select astro tracer from a menu first time but after that you work from a modified Bulb menu. But this Bulb menu lets one select exposure times in 10 sec increments up to a max of 5 minutes. Its like a Manual exposure mode, except its no longer limited to 30 sec, but 5 minutes. I think this is a terrrific programming. 30 sec limitation on Manual mode would always push one into buying these funky cable switches. The only thing i; wondering about now is whether there is a way to use the 0-gps1 as a bulb mode modifier without the tracking mechanism working. If not, i'm hoping that Pentax will continue to improve the bulb exposure mode into a more dynamic mode than what all other makers have - hint, hint. Anyway, i'm very cheered to see Ricoh trying more out of the box stuff with the K3II and their new lenses and the resolution enhancer. I like that old Pentax advertising program - BE INTERESTING - and now Pentax is. FF is going to be a wow product - and i will wait for it.

04-28-2015, 04:01 PM	#124
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,697	Originally posted by Outis To me, it just screams Afternoon at the DMV LOL..I absolutely love that analogy. How many pro's do you see ever use a pop up flash.

04-29-2015, 06:47 AM - 2 Likes	#126
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Originally posted by Driline LOL..I absolutely love that analogy. How many pro's do you see ever use a pop up flash. I don't know? Your turn....... How many Pro's do you see shooting Pentax? You really think no flash will draw them? I won't buy a car without turn signals, even though I have two arms. Without air bags, even though I have seat belts. ...and I would never have this shot and many, many, more without OBF. You only have seconds to get many shots and if you have to mount a flash, those seconds are lost forever. Nope...I don't like any flash other than studio strobes, but I don't like seat belts either and I wouldn't drive without them. What are the odds I'd get a second chance at this after I went back and got a flash to mount...or even if I had one handy in my bag? How many shots will you miss? Regards!

04-29-2015, 11:56 AM	#127
JimC1101 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Fremont, Ca Photos: Albums Posts: 395	Originally posted by Rupert I don't know? Your turn....... How many Pro's do you see shooting Pentax? You really think no flash will draw them? I won't buy a car without turn signals, even though I have two arms. Without air bags, even though I have seat belts. ...and I would never have this shot and many, many, more without OBF. You only have seconds to get many shots and if you have to mount a flash, those seconds are lost forever. Nope...I don't like any flash other than studio strobes, but I don't like seat belts either and I wouldn't drive without them. What are the odds I'd get a second chance at this after I went back and got a flash to mount...or even if I had one handy in my bag? How many shots will you miss? Regards! Nice shot.

04-29-2015, 12:12 PM	#128
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,697	Originally posted by Rupert I don't know? Your turn....... How many Pro's do you see shooting Pentax? You really think no flash will draw them? I won't buy a car without turn signals, even though I have two arms. Without air bags, even though I have seat belts. ...and I would never have this shot and many, many, more without OBF. You only have seconds to get many shots and if you have to mount a flash, those seconds are lost forever. Nope...I don't like any flash other than studio strobes, but I don't like seat belts either and I wouldn't drive without them. What are the odds I'd get a second chance at this after I went back and got a flash to mount...or even if I had one handy in my bag? How many shots will you miss? Regards! Gee.... I feel really bad now. Please forgive my blatant stupidity.

04-29-2015, 12:26 PM	#129
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Rupert I won't buy a car without turn signals, even though I have two arms. Without air bags, even though I have seat belts. Right. You never want to give up features. That's why when I bought a new computer last year I demanded that they install a floppy drive.

04-29-2015, 12:27 PM	#130
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	5.25 inch right?

04-29-2015, 01:13 PM	#131
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Originally posted by Driline Gee.... I feel really bad now. Please forgive my blatant stupidity. Don't feel bad....I screw up about a dozen times a day...or more...but not on buying a camera with no flash! Originally posted by Parallax That's why when I bought a new computer last year I demanded that they install a floppy drive. For you that makes good sense. At your age all the information you can process in your shrinking brain will fit easily on a floppy disk! Think of me this way......when the KWhatever comes out and the long line of Pros is there to grab it up because it has no flash I won't be in the line blocking your quick access! Or...you might think of me some other way...that will be just fine with Otis! Regards!

04-29-2015, 01:24 PM	#132
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Rupert At your age all the information you can process in your shrinking brain will fit easily on a floppy disk!

04-29-2015, 02:57 PM	#134
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457	Originally posted by Parallax Right. You never want to give up features. That's why when I bought a new computer last year I demanded that they install a floppy drive. And I thought I was bad looking for Windows 7 !

04-29-2015, 03:13 PM	#135
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	Still waiting for the solution from the wannabe "pros" to those of us who travel light for assignments that demand it (using no more than one external flash), and understand the benefits of modest fill light coming from as close to the optical axis as is possible. It isn't as though pro-oriented cameras costing more than the K-3 - including FF models above entry level - don't include on-board flash. While some good arguments have been offered in favor of integrated GPS and astro-tracing, apparently the response to valid points regarding on-board flash needs is unnecessary - other than appearances or personal shooting habits. Nothing about the on-board flash capability makes it a good analogy to the floppy disc. In fact, Pentax made the on-board flash far more relevant in the expanded capabilities on the K-3, then promptly dropped it in the B version.