Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-02-2015, 03:56 AM   #136
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,000
Just a suggestion for an experiment.
  1. Would someone with a K3II body and the new Digital Camera Utility 5 from Pentax, take a RAW test image file and extract the individual image components with the DCU5 software and post them.
  2. Does the new DCU5 software provide a means to recombine the individual component images into a post processed RAW combined result file? Does the new DCU5 utility offer any additional processing capabilities for pixel shifted images?
  3. Would someone with access to the PhotoAcute software take the extracted individual image components and run them through PhotoAcute to see if the utility is able to stack them with improved results?
What are the results? Perhaps the PhotoAcute folks would consider applying/extend their software to support the K3II PS capability?



06-02-2015, 06:55 AM   #137
Veteran Member
tomtor's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 382
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
Just a suggestion for an experiment.
  1. Would someone with a K3II body and the new Digital Camera Utility 5 from Pentax, take a RAW test image file and extract the individual image components with the DCU5 software and post them.
  2. Does the new DCU5 software provide a means to recombine the individual component images into a post processed RAW combined result file? Does the new DCU5 utility offer any additional processing capabilities for pixel shifted images?
  3. Would someone with access to the PhotoAcute software take the extracted individual image components and run them through PhotoAcute to see if the utility is able to stack them with improved results?
What are the results? Perhaps the PhotoAcute folks would consider applying/extend their software to support the K3II PS capability?

I do not know if DCU can split the DNG, but the standard dcraw can do that (dcraw -s all ABC.DNG), you will get 4 processed files.
What is in those files depends on the parameters. You can feed these files to PhotoAcute.


Ok, i did a dcraw + darktable conversion on the 6400 ISO image from imaging resource
(and donated 5$ because of their excellent DNGs :-)

dcrawps32.exe -v -4 -T -X -G 100 K32hSLI06400_HR.DNG

results in quite a respectable stacked TIFF.

Or use:

dcrawps32.exe -v -4 -T -X -G 100 -w K32hSLI06400_HR.DNG

for camera white balance (I probably should have used this instead).
These parameters are also good for creating PhotoAcute files.


PP with darktable results in this jpeg, similar to the OOC jpeg image

http://www.v7f.eu/public/pentax/K32hSLI06400_HR-dcraw-darktable.jpg

---------- Post added 06-02-15 at 04:18 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tomtor Quote

PP with darktable results in this jpeg, similar to the OOC jpeg image

http://www.v7f.eu/public/pentax/K32hSLI06400_HR-dcraw-darktable.jpg
100% crops:





The first is OOC, note that all detail in the red fabric is missing?

Last edited by tomtor; 06-02-2015 at 07:19 AM.
06-02-2015, 11:48 AM   #138
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,189
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I am pretty sure that any third party LR/PS developer that has written extensions for LightRoom could take the information that has been cited here and develop a plugin extension that when applied to an image, would search the original file for the additional 4 images, and then extracting them one by one, applying the pixel shift, build the combined file, and then store it out as a subsequent new image (adding it to the catalog), appending say a -PS identifier to the end of the image name, with a DNG extension.
I am not an expert in writing import plugins for Adobe products, but I have doubts that the integration points for what you describe are present. About the best that might be accomplished would be a pre-processing tool that does as you describe and which outputs a separate DNG into a watched directory for auto-import into Lightroom.

One other thing to consider is that the actual merge logic would be a trick to pull off in an intelligent manner.


Steve
06-02-2015, 11:54 AM   #139
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,189
QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Saville Quote
I am not a die-hard Lightroom fan; I already use Nikon's View NX to cull and proof my images, and to view the true in-camera colors as opposed to the nasty, yucky looking colors that Adobe renders for certain hues especially Nikon's rendering of vibrant fall colors in Aspens and other Eastern Sierra trees.
You make a real good point here. I have a fall color photo that I have processed both in-camera with the K10D (essentially the same as using Pentax/Silky-Pix) and also with Lightroom. The in-camera JPEG is incredibly vibrant even with no bump in saturation. I have not been able to duplicate those results using LR despite multiple efforts.


Steve

06-02-2015, 12:38 PM   #140
Senior Member
Matthew Saville's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California
Posts: 250
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
You make a real good point here. I have a fall color photo that I have processed both in-camera with the K10D (essentially the same as using Pentax/Silky-Pix) and also with Lightroom. The in-camera JPEG is incredibly vibrant even with no bump in saturation. I have not been able to duplicate those results using LR despite multiple efforts.


Steve
I am very glad that I am not the only one noticing this! I can closely mimic the "look" in Lightroom, but it requires extremely subtle, painstaking tweaking of HSL sliders, RGB curves, and Adobe's attempts at camera-specific profiles.

I then ask myself, why not just export a TIF from Nikon / Pentax software, with zero sharpening and noise reduction, and then do any final for-print sharpening / NR in PS? Seems to work for me. Actually one of the images in my sig is one of those exact images I struggled with, IIRC.

So, the question is, what is the best software to browse and perform light editing / SOOC TIF creation, for PEF files? The Pentax website only seems to offer an update to their software, like Canon, whereas Nikon offers a full version to anyone, even non-Nikon owners lol. I like that convenience because I can download Nikon View NX 2 to any computer I use without having to worry about pulling out the DVD that came with my camera. :-)
06-02-2015, 02:20 PM - 1 Like   #141
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 3,015
Ricoh's choice for saving raw pixel shift files is disappointing. The camera gives us a DNG that might need several pieces of software to process. They did something similarly disappointing with the raw HDR format. The workflow is inconvenient; we can no longer use the common technique of 1) Load files from memory card into photo catalog software [such as Lightroom or Corel Aftershot]; 2) Adjust photo within catalog software and plug-ins.
06-02-2015, 02:40 PM   #142
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,731
I bought a Sigma DP2 just to get more image detail in a smaller file, and it cost me $700, and uses two pieces of software, the Sigma Software and my regular PP software. This will be no different, except it's an add on, not a whole new camera, it will still do everything else a K-3 will do, and I'm only going to use this feature for a very limited number of images that can really benefit from it. I'm not seeing a problem, but because I 've already used Foveon software, I actually see it as an improvement.
06-02-2015, 03:25 PM   #143
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 3,015
Does the K-3ii have a setting that allows the 3 different types of DNGs to go into 3 different folders on the memory card? That would greatly simplify processing. Or is there some other way to know what type of processing needs to be applied to a specific DNG?

Let's pretend you have 3 images and you want to tweak contrast curves or color channels in all 3. If you do the usual "load all my photos into Lightroom" (or any other cataloging software) before processing:
  • Photo 1 is a regular exposure. Load into LR and move the sliders.
  • Photo 2 is pixel shifted. If you adjust sliders in LR you'll only be working with 1 of the 4 images, and therefore getting less resolution and color fidelity than you captured. This image needs to be loaded into DCU or broken into 4 files for PhotoAcute, then loaded back into LR for further processing.
  • Photo 3 is HDR. By default, Lightroom might only see 1 of the 3 exposures in the raw file. You need to send this DNG to DCU, or split the DNG into 3 files to use Adobe HDR functions.


06-02-2015, 08:07 PM   #144
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,189
QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
The camera gives us a DNG that might need several pieces of software to process.
It is my understanding that a single tool, the newest version of PDCU, is all that required. If you want something different, that is not Ricoh/Pentax problem. That being said, I share your pain. It would be nice if they had merged the four captures in real time into a proper DNG using the camera's processor.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-02-2015 at 08:15 PM.
06-02-2015, 08:08 PM   #145
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,189
QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Does the K-3ii have a setting that allows the 3 different types of DNGs to go into 3 different folders on the memory card?
No...

I have a copy of the manual and that is not an option.

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/man-pdf/k-3-2.pdf


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-02-2015 at 08:13 PM.
06-03-2015, 12:12 AM   #146
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,008
QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Does the K-3ii have a setting that allows the 3 different types of DNGs to go into 3 different folders on the memory card? That would greatly simplify processing. Or is there some other way to know what type of processing needs to be applied to a specific DNG?
Personally I still use PEFs in camera (slightly smaller than Pentax's DNGs), so I'm waiting for LR to support the new PEFs before I take my images into PP. That shouldn't take too long assuming they haven't changed much from the K-3's PEFs?

In case of pixel shifted images, I will however add an extra step in my import work flow. Normally I convert to DNG on importing directly from my cards into LR, but since that would probably only retain one image from pixel shifted PEFs, I will require some step in between to salvage those.

I'm thinking I will copy all PEFs to my hard drive first, then sort them on file size and take the big ones (=should be the pixel shifted ones) into DCU to create a 16bit TIFF from them (with a suffixed file name) trying to keep other processing to a minimum. Then I'll import the lot (PEFs and TIFFs) in LR converting to DNG. I would have to test, but I expect this approach would give me two images in LR for the pixel shifted shots:
- one from the original PEF, where LR only kept one exposure
- one from the TIFF out of DCU, which has much better detail
This looks like a good thing, since coping with localized movement in the image would require combining both these images in PS. Not having to go back explicitly to extract a single image from the original PEF would actually help. I suppose that if the processing on the TIFF is kept to a minimum in DCU, both files could be PPed in LR similarly to facilitate this merge?

Just a few thoughts... I received my K-3II last WE, but I've been too busy to do much with it except set it up properly.

Wim

Last edited by Ishpuini; 06-03-2015 at 12:18 AM.
06-03-2015, 03:54 AM   #147
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 14,946
QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Does the K-3ii have a setting that allows the 3 different types of DNGs to go into 3 different folders on the memory card? That would greatly simplify processing. Or is there some other way to know what type of processing needs to be applied to a specific DNG?

Let's pretend you have 3 images and you want to tweak contrast curves or color channels in all 3. If you do the usual "load all my photos into Lightroom" (or any other cataloging software) before processing:
  • Photo 1 is a regular exposure. Load into LR and move the sliders.
  • Photo 2 is pixel shifted. If you adjust sliders in LR you'll only be working with 1 of the 4 images, and therefore getting less resolution and color fidelity than you captured. This image needs to be loaded into DCU or broken into 4 files for PhotoAcute, then loaded back into LR for further processing.
  • Photo 3 is HDR. By default, Lightroom might only see 1 of the 3 exposures in the raw file. You need to send this DNG to DCU, or split the DNG into 3 files to use Adobe HDR functions.
I think you need to look at this differently. Basically, you will have two options. One is to basically get a jpeg that is processed however Pentax deems best. This probably will be adequate for a lot of these situations. Maybe not ideal, but will have quite a bit more detail than the average jpeg and if you choose neutral settings, you can do standard processing and sharpening after the fact in your post processor of choice.

The other thing you can do is to split the RAW file and get four RAW images that you can then combine after the fact. Using this technique, you could certainly generate a high quality TIFF file that may have a little more color depth/detail than the out of camera jpeg.

The thing is that the camera will automatically do the pixel shifting for you. To me, that's the hard part and the thing you can't do on your own easily. The easy part is deciding what you will do with the images after the fact.
06-03-2015, 09:29 PM   #148
New Member
DoYouKnowJack's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 12
I noticed that Pixel Shift is not good for moon shots, even with a fast-ish shutter of 1/250. The images are covered with the "lattice" or "waffle-effect" or whatever we decide to call it. I suppose it's due to simply too much movement?
06-03-2015, 09:40 PM   #149
Pentaxian
JimmyDranox's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ploiesti, Romania
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,585
I think that not only moon movement, but also atmospheric turbulence.
06-07-2015, 11:52 PM   #150
Senior Member
Matthew Saville's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California
Posts: 250
QuoteOriginally posted by DoYouKnowJack Quote
I noticed that Pixel Shift is not good for moon shots, even with a fast-ish shutter of 1/250. The images are covered with the "lattice" or "waffle-effect" or whatever we decide to call it. I suppose it's due to simply too much movement?
Does astrotracer work on the moon? Oh wait, I bet astrotracer AND pixel-shifting aren't possible at the same time, hahaha. You can't have your cake and eat it too, can you?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
artifacts, car, dng, dslr, examples, files, increase, k-3, k3, k3ii, link, magnification, move, movement, note, pef, pentax k-3, pixel, ps, samples, scene, screen, shift, shot, shots, subject
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SR and Pixel Shift Technology C_Jones Pentax K-3 9 05-10-2015 06:24 AM
Pixel Shifting Samples from Pentax on the K3II mikeodial Pentax DSLR Discussion 99 04-26-2015 05:00 PM
Pixel shift practical applications Spodeworld Pentax K-3 20 04-25-2015 10:01 AM
K-3 II pixel shift resized. Wow factor. JimmyDranox Pentax K-3 21 04-25-2015 09:37 AM
Pixel shift and bracketing Spodeworld Pentax K-3 9 04-23-2015 08:56 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:46 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top