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05-24-2015, 03:39 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by DDoram Quote
I changed the RAW file format to PEF and the file size increases to 126 MB vs 26 for the DNG
Interesting. Maybe DNG supports lossless compression [?], but the PEF file format doesn't?

05-24-2015, 04:04 PM   #17
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The images do have this smooth(whole) quality that is hard to put your finger on...
05-24-2015, 04:52 PM   #18
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I suspect that the full effect is only stored in the native Pentax PEF file format and not DNG. Don't ask me why but the DNG should be close to the same file size as the PEF if it was capturing the same information.
05-24-2015, 06:09 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by DDoram Quote
I suspect that the full effect is only stored in the native Pentax PEF file format and not DNG. Don't ask me why but the DNG should be close to the same file size as the PEF if it was capturing the same information.
or it is a bug in the current implementation (always a possibility)...

What will be interesting is how quickly 3rd party support surfaces for supporting this unique RAW format (e.g. DxO, ACR, Mac OS, etc.)

Michael

05-24-2015, 11:41 PM - 1 Like   #20
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It seems as it only works with PEF, and that it’s not processed in camera. That’s a pity, now we are forced to use Pentax raw converter to use this option. I was hoping the camera itself would do the processing and put out a readymade DNG-file.

Also the large size of the PEF suggests there are 5 exposures, or that the compression is less effective compared to the one used by DNG.

And why can’t Pentax tell us how it works instead of the users having to so some kind of reverse engineering on this.
05-25-2015, 12:04 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
It seems as it only works with PEF, and that it’s not processed in camera. That’s a pity, now we are forced to use Pentax raw converter to use this option. I was hoping the camera itself would do the processing and put out a readymade DNG-file.

Also the large size of the PEF suggests there are 5 exposures, or that the compression is less effective compared to the one used by DNG.

And why can’t Pentax tell us how it works instead of the users having to so some kind of reverse engineering on this.
For now the most practical approach would be to convert the PEF to a 16bit TIFF with the Pentax software. This tiff can be processed with our standard software.

It would have been nice if the camera had supported 16bit TIFF or a DNG variant.

@DDoram, it would be great if you could place the two DNGs and the PEF on a download site like dropbox so that people can experiment with them.

Last edited by tomtor; 05-25-2015 at 06:35 AM.
05-25-2015, 01:37 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
And why can’t Pentax tell us how it works instead of the users having to so some kind of reverse engineering on this.
It's become a bad trend with Pentax.

As the manuals have become smaller for all cameras, and the camera feature lists have become longer, officially available information on stuff like the technology used, and how to use the camera effectively, is often hard to find.

It's been the same for a long time about (for example) how to best use the advanced auto-focus in the K-3, how the Multi-Auto-White balance works, etc.

No Ricoh White Papers, no Ricoh tutorial web sites, no in-depth Ricoh YouTube videos. It's a pity.
05-25-2015, 03:50 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
It's become a bad trend with Pentax.

As the manuals have become smaller for all cameras, and the camera feature lists have become longer, officially available information on stuff like the technology used, and how to use the camera effectively, is often hard to find.

It's been the same for a long time about (for example) how to best use the advanced auto-focus in the K-3, how the Multi-Auto-White balance works, etc.

No Ricoh White Papers, no Ricoh tutorial web sites, no in-depth Ricoh YouTube videos. It's a pity.
I just hope that the manuals don't become like the one that came with my wife's Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX300.

05-25-2015, 04:59 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
I just hope that the manuals don't become like the one that came with my wife's Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX300.
Sonys manuals are the worst of them all.

I have the RX100 and all the features are listed but only how to turn them on or off, no hint on what they are supposed to do... Totally pointless.
05-25-2015, 12:06 PM   #25
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Even at this size, edges look at lot sharper. Nice!

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05-25-2015, 12:28 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
It's become a bad trend with Pentax.

As the manuals have become smaller for all cameras, and the camera feature lists have become longer, officially available information on stuff like the technology used, and how to use the camera effectively, is often hard to find.
A few people have claimed that the K-3 manual has less information than the K-5 series. When I compared them closely, I found that the K-3 contains the same or more information as the K-5 manual, but is printed in a smaller font, making the manual thinner.
05-25-2015, 01:31 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
No Ricoh White Papers, no Ricoh tutorial web sites, no in-depth Ricoh YouTube videos. It's a pity.
Actually, that is a shame. Pentax could garner a large amount of wonderful exposure in terms of coming out with a set of white papers and/or videos on various aspects of their camera's capabilities.
  • A really good white paper on the benefits of sensor shifting, and an analysis of the results.
  • Again a good white paper on their AstroTracking and the results. They did a video on this, but it was poor, i Japanese, and just missed the mark.
  • MikeSF has come up with a couple of compelling shots on using their sensor shifting for perspective correction.
  • The Anti-Ailising filter implemented with sensor shifting.
That is 4 papers right there in a quick list. It would take a month of time to do them right. Establish a trend. Lead up to the FF announcement. Take advantage of the runway that you have.

It does not take a lot, just some malice of forethought. It does not need to be scientifically groundbreaking, does not need to give up IP or Trade Secrets, but a general overview specifically aimed at how to use it and the results that are able to be obtained. How it is going to make your life simpler with better photography.

In addition to MikeSF's wonderful MW image out on the beach, there are a number of really fine Astro images take with lenses up to 200mm of Andromeda and other celestial bodies (I need to go get a list of names - they are really that good). Just make arrangements with the folks to use the images here, get with the photographers for their real world experience (don't go snatching the images - Ricoh already had their hand caught in the cookie jar). There are some VERY talented folks here. It takes very little in the way of funds. Take a marketing intern, give them the idea, make some engineering talent available for the technical stuff, and see how it progresses.

Heck, sponsor a contest here for images that would best demonstrate each of these capabilities (and others). Ricoh would have a fine set of examples, along with demonstration ideas way beyond what marketing would come up with.


Last edited by interested_observer; 05-25-2015 at 02:00 PM.
05-25-2015, 04:07 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
Actually, that is a shame. Pentax could garner a large amount of wonderful exposure in terms of coming out with a set of white papers and/or videos on various aspects of their camera's capabilities.
  • A really good white paper on the benefits of sensor shifting, and an analysis of the results.
  • Again a good white paper on their AstroTracking and the results. They did a video on this, but it was poor, i Japanese, and just missed the mark.
  • MikeSF has come up with a couple of compelling shots on using their sensor shifting for perspective correction.
  • The Anti-Ailising filter implemented with sensor shifting.
That is 4 papers right there in a quick list. It would take a month of time to do them right. Establish a trend. Lead up to the FF announcement. Take advantage of the runway that you have.

It does not take a lot, just some malice of forethought. It does not need to be scientifically groundbreaking, does not need to give up IP or Trade Secrets, but a general overview specifically aimed at how to use it and the results that are able to be obtained. How it is going to make your life simpler with better photography.

In addition to MikeSF's wonderful MW image out on the beach, there are a number of really fine Astro images take with lenses up to 200mm of Andromeda and other celestial bodies (I need to go get a list of names - they are really that good). Just make arrangements with the folks to use the images here, get with the photographers for their real world experience (don't go snatching the images - Ricoh already had their hand caught in the cookie jar). There are some VERY talented folks here. It takes very little in the way of funds. Take a marketing intern, give them the idea, make some engineering talent available for the technical stuff, and see how it progresses.

Heck, sponsor a contest here for images that would best demonstrate each of these capabilities (and others). Ricoh would have a fine set of examples, along with demonstration ideas way beyond what marketing would come up with.

Everything you said is good, very good, but this means money, not very much, but still. And after this a lot of customers will want the camera, and this means bigger sales, and bigger production. And bigger profits. I think that Ricoh don't want that. Or can't do that. Or something

Oh, I have wrote everything upside-down. Ricoh wants bigger sales, and bigger production, and ....

No, seriously, How they can ignore the need of technical documentation when they know that is new function inside? Hope that they will don't do the same for Pentax FF.

Or, maybe they know that Pentax users are the most clever folks in the world, and we don't need documentation Thank you Ricoh.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 05-25-2015 at 04:16 PM.
05-25-2015, 05:30 PM   #29
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If the camera merges the pixel shift images internally to get the best possible answer for what colour value each pixel should record, then I see no reason for the file to be huge.
05-25-2015, 05:40 PM   #30
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I keep going back and forth to those two images and I can't tell a difference..


Well.. here is the manual http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/man-pdf/k-3-2.pdf

page 60 has a tiny blurb on it.. 'High-Definition Image Output'
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