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05-29-2015, 12:54 AM   #121
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Now that we're a couple pages into this, can someone summarize the situation thus far for me? I'll be creating my official review of the K-3 II shortly so I'm wondering:

1.) Is there, or is there not, any condition under which this camera will spit out a file that is actually larger than 24 MP, or does pixel-shifting simply add acuity to the 24 MP file?

2.) What's the current verdict on processing the DNG and PEF files in general, assuming that a Lightroom update with PEF file support is coming soon?

Thanks!

05-29-2015, 01:09 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Saville Quote
Now that we're a couple pages into this, can someone summarize the situation thus far for me? I'll be creating my official review of the K-3 II shortly so I'm wondering:

1.) Is there, or is there not, any condition under which this camera will spit out a file that is actually larger than 24 MP, or does pixel-shifting simply add acuity to the 24 MP file?

2.) What's the current verdict on processing the DNG and PEF files in general, assuming that a Lightroom update with PEF file support is coming soon?

Thanks!
Summary:

A DNG contains 4 exposures in the normal raw representation, each 24mpixel.

If a raw development program can open the DNG (not all can) then you can process the first capture in the normal way. The last 3 captures are simply ignored. This can be handy if the processed PS data has artifacts from movement.

To gain access to the full processed PS data you have to convert with the Pentax DCU software to TIFF 16, until software developers adapt their programs.

In camera TIFF conversion results in TIFF-8, I see no use for those files.
05-29-2015, 01:23 AM   #123
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I also took one shot with Pixel shift resolution activated. It did fire the shutter just one time, but did some extra processing. I set the format to DNG and the file that came out is 118Mb large. I have to redo the test because I didn't had the time to play properly with this function and see what impact has on the final image.
05-29-2015, 01:31 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I also took one shot with Pixel shift resolution activated. It did fire the shutter just one time, but did some extra processing. I set the format to DNG and the file that came out is 118Mb large.
Yes, it uses an electronic shutter for the pixel shift function. That is stated on the Ricoh website.

05-29-2015, 03:04 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomtor Quote
To gain access to the full processed PS data you have to convert with the Pentax DCU software to TIFF 16, until software developers adapt their programs.
I don't see developers coming to Pentax on this one. Pentax just has to deliver a proper linear DNG and everyone wins.
05-29-2015, 03:59 AM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I don't see developers coming to Pentax on this one. Pentax just has to deliver a proper linear DNG and everyone wins.
I will adapt dcraw for Pentax PS dng to 16 bit Tiff.

I have no interest in linear Dng but I do not know if Adobe software can convert Tiff to linear dng.
05-29-2015, 04:29 AM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomtor Quote
I have no interest in linear Dng but I do not know if Adobe software can convert Tiff to linear dng.
I've just exported a TIFF from Lightroom as a Linear DNG.
05-29-2015, 04:32 AM - 1 Like   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I've just exported a TIFF from Lightroom as a Linear DNG.
Well, that's excellent. So everybody can be happy.

I created a separate thread for discussing the dcraw adaption:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/296497-implementing-automa...hot-dcraw.html

05-29-2015, 11:30 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Saville Quote
I'll be creating my official review of the K-3 II shortly so I'm wondering:

1.) Is there, or is there not, any condition under which this camera will spit out a file that is actually larger than 24 MP, or does pixel-shifting simply add acuity to the 24 MP file?

2.) What's the current verdict on processing the DNG and PEF files in general, assuming that a Lightroom update with PEF file support is coming soon?
Point #1: I dunno...you have the camera, right? A clue might be found in the example photos supplied by Ricoh. They all have the expected 24 Mpx pixel dimensions.

As for point #2, it is clear that Adobe will not be providing full support of the PS merge feature for DNG due to the poorly-formed file. I would expect that PS merge for PEF will be available when/if Adobe supports Pentax in-camera HDR. (Translation? Never...)


Steve
05-29-2015, 11:34 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I've just exported a TIFF from Lightroom as a Linear DNG.
Yep...Lightroom supports that feature.


Steve
05-29-2015, 06:29 PM   #131
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I am pretty sure that any third party LR/PS developer that has written extensions for LightRoom could take the information that has been cited here and develop a plugin extension that when applied to an image, would search the original file for the additional 4 images, and then extracting them one by one, applying the pixel shift, build the combined file, and then store it out as a subsequent new image (adding it to the catalog), appending say a -PS identifier to the end of the image name, with a DNG extension. That would at least create a RAW based image that could then be post processed (other than the JPG, and perhaps a TIFF). I am somewhat surprised that Pentax has not gone that way. They are the ones with the knowledge of the file structure and their reasons for doing what they did).

As it is, Rioch is taking a perfectly fine new capability/functionality and letting it twist in the wind.

05-31-2015, 12:57 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Point #1: I dunno...you have the camera, right? A clue might be found in the example photos supplied by Ricoh. They all have the expected 24 Mpx pixel dimensions.

As for point #2, it is clear that Adobe will not be providing full support of the PS merge feature for DNG due to the poorly-formed file. I would expect that PS merge for PEF will be available when/if Adobe supports Pentax in-camera HDR. (Translation? Never...)


Steve
I'm still waiting on my review copy of the camera, and I was going to hold off on placing my own personal order until I've had a chance to also test out some of the lenses I'm interested in, such as the new 16-85 WR and collapsible 18-50 WR. I tried ordering one when a pricing error on the Pentax Webstore listed a few kits at ~$119, but that order was cancelled lol... ;-)

But, indeed, I have not yet seen a file that is larger than 24 MP. I just wanted to make absolute certain, before I misspeak in my review by accident if there is some obscure tool either in-camera or in Pentax software that can spit out a ~50-90 MP file.

You know, speaking of which, I did seem to notice in my review of the original K-3 that it seemed like Pentax, unlike Canon and Nikon's JPG-only in-camera HDR modes, was indeed creating a PEF HDR file instead. But whenever I opened the PEF file in Lightroom, it seemed to revert back to a single exposure. See, I didn't research this enough originally, and I should have! Now I know...

But yeah, it will be a shame if Adobe continues to fail to offer full DNG or PEF support for these new features. Having in-camera HDR, in-camera pixel-shifting, and other things like in-camera exposure addition would be awesome.

However, unlike most traditional folks, I am no stranger to camera brand software. I am not a die-hard Lightroom fan; I already use Nikon's View NX to cull and proof my images, and to view the true in-camera colors as opposed to the nasty, yucky looking colors that Adobe renders for certain hues especially Nikon's rendering of vibrant fall colors in Aspens and other Eastern Sierra trees.

TLDR, I'll gladly try using Pentax software. As long as it is good at culling and general browsing, I don't need that much in the way of advanced processing.
05-31-2015, 04:17 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Saville Quote
You know, speaking of which, I did seem to notice in my review of the original K-3 that it seemed like Pentax, unlike Canon and Nikon's JPG-only in-camera HDR modes, was indeed creating a PEF HDR file instead. But whenever I opened the PEF file in Lightroom, it seemed to revert back to a single exposure. See, I didn't research this enough originally, and I should have! Now I know...
In the K3, Pentax creates a file with the combined HDR plus the supporting RAW images. These can then be extracted using their Silkyplex software. Once extracted, then any HDR/Tone Mapping software package can be used. I was expecting Pentax to support the capability the same way, however - there really is no software available to stack them up and combine them.

So, I went and downloaded the K5II manual. If you go to the last line on page 4 of the Pentax K5II users manual is says " With the provided software “Digital Camera Utility 5”, you can develop RAW files on a computer"I am unable to find a manual for the “Digital Camera Utility 5”. So, I have no idea as to what capabilities in provides in terms of the PS support.

I found something - either the software, manual or both...

Last edited by interested_observer; 05-31-2015 at 04:23 PM.
05-31-2015, 05:23 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I found something - either the software, manual or both...
That's still V5.3.1 of PDCU.

v5.4, which is available on the disc that came with the K-3 II camera I believe, has support for Pixel Shift.
06-01-2015, 11:25 AM   #135
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There's a load of impressive K3II pixel shift shots over on Imaging Resource now.
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