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06-08-2015, 11:05 PM   #1
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One more K-3 FW bug - 128GB card, file system & formatting.

After upgrading memory card to 128 GB, I've found a problem which I find might be relating to K-3 firmware.
I attach K-3 with USB/microUSB 3.0 cable to my QNAP TS-269L NAS as a remote USB 3.0 disk station, then 2 'disks' (actually SD memory cards) are visible, both named K-3.
The point is when one of the cards was upgraded to 128 GB, the file system on this SD 128 GB card is no longer visible, with a note from QNAP QTS 'not initialized'.
After I format this virtual disk (SD memory card) from within QNAP NAS, the file system of the SD card becomes visible, with a note from QNAP QTS 'ready'.
But... After formatting the SD card (in a slot 1 of K-3) from within QNAP NAS (I tried both FAT32 or NTFS), the K-3 body does NOT recognize formatting ('Card not formatted').
It looks both K-3 and QNAP NAS recognize only their own formatting
I'd like to write a note to QNAP, but I have no idea if and when they answer the question
Two points I've sorted out:
i) the problem persists with 128 GB Sony and Lexar cards, co is not SD card manufacturer relevant;
ii) the 128 GB card is easily readable and writeable with external SD card reader (Transcend 3.0, Kingston 3.0), so there IS some problem with K-3 as a 'card reader'.

06-08-2015, 11:14 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prakticant Quote
After upgrading memory card to 128 GB, I've found a problem which I find might be relating to K-3 firmware.
I attach K-3 with USB/microUSB 3.0 cable to my QNAP TS-269L NAS as a remote USB 3.0 disk station, then 2 'disks' (actually SD memory cards) are visible, both named K-3.
The point is when one of the cards was upgraded to 128 GB, the file system on this SD 128 GB card is no longer visible, with a note from QNAP QTS 'not initialized'.
After I format this virtual disk (SD memory card) from within QNAP NAS, the file system of the SD card becomes visible, with a note from QNAP QTS 'ready'.
But... After formatting the SD card (in a slot 1 of K-3) from within QNAP NAS (I tried both FAT32 or NTFS), the K-3 body does NOT recognize formatting ('Card not formatted').
It looks both K-3 and QNAP NAS recognize only their own formatting
I'd like to write a note to QNAP, but I have no idea if and when they answer the question
Two points I've sorted out:
i) the problem persists with 128 GB Sony and Lexar cards, co is not SD card manufacturer relevant;
ii) the 128 GB card is easily readable and writeable with external SD card reader (Transcend 3.0, Kingston 3.0), so there IS some problem with K-3 as a 'card reader'.
I believe the K-3 only supports exFAT for SDXC cards / volumes > 32Gb. If your NAS isn't compatible with that (i.e. incompatible with SDXC media), I wouldn't blame the camera.

Per the SDXC spec:

QuoteQuote:
Because SDXC uses a different file system called exFAT and it works differently than standard SD cards, this new format is NOT backwards compatible with host devices that only take SD (128MB to 2GB) or host devices that only take SDHC (4GB to 32GB). Most host devices built after 2010 should be SDXC compatible.
Does everything work when you connect the K-3 via USB cable to your PC?

By the way, I bet that if you initialize a partition <= 32Gb on the card using FAT32 and leave the rest unallocated, it will work perfectly both in-camera and in the NAS. But then you wouldn't gain any benefit from the "XC"

Adam
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06-09-2015, 01:35 AM   #3
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A lot of "older" java or open GL systems like NASes don't support sd bigger than 64gb sometimes it does, but i think you need to update the NAS. i have a media player that runs on android and it can see only 1 of my 128gb cards.
My mac can see my 2 sd cards and they are both 128gb.
06-09-2015, 03:20 AM   #4
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+1 to Adam.

Off topic question but... What do you do with 128 GB cards? I feel so strange when everybody on the forumz has 32, 64, 128 GB cards, and I'm here with my two 8GB ones.

06-09-2015, 04:03 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Giklab Quote
+1 to Adam.

Off topic question but... What do you do with 128 GB cards? I feel so strange when everybody on the forumz has 32, 64, 128 GB cards, and I'm here with my two 8GB ones.
Image files become bigger as there are more pixels! and they are relative cheaper. and for me i want to be sure to have enough space for my holiday (and time-lapse takes a lot space)
06-09-2015, 04:18 AM   #6
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THX for your help, Adam

It looks my QNAP TS-269L does not recognize exFAT file format

Strange, as the QNAP TS-269L easily formats SDXC cards in ext4, ext3, NTFS and FAT32 file formats

K-3 does not recognize FAT32 (for 128GB size SDXC memory cards) nor NTFS file format.

Yes, when I connect K-3 with microUSB/USB 3.0 cable directly to my Windows (XP) computer, Windows (XP) recognizes K-3 with both formatted cards (FAT32 for 32GB and exFAT for 128GB).

I do have some spare 64GB SDXC, but I believe it works the same way as 128GB

So now we come back to the old [OT] question (discussed thoroughly on my local Pentax board, you wouldn't believe the answers):
'Is that better to download photos from your Pentax camera with USB cable, or with external USB card reader'


-----
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I believe the K-3 only supports exFAT for SDXC cards / volumes > 32Gb. If your NAS isn't compatible with that (i.e. incompatible with SDXC media), I wouldn't blame the camera.
Does everything work when you connect the K-3 via USB cable to your PC?
By the way, I bet that if you initialize a partition <= 32Gb on the card using FAT32 and leave the rest unallocated, it will work perfectly both in-camera and in the NAS. But then you wouldn't gain any benefit from the "XC"
06-09-2015, 08:03 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prakticant Quote
THX for your help, Adam

It looks my QNAP TS-269L does not recognize exFAT file format

Strange, as the QNAP TS-269L easily formats SDXC cards in ext4, ext3, NTFS and FAT32 file formats

K-3 does not recognize FAT32 (for 128GB size SDXC memory cards) nor NTFS file format.

Yes, when I connect K-3 with microUSB/USB 3.0 cable directly to my Windows (XP) computer, Windows (XP) recognizes K-3 with both formatted cards (FAT32 for 32GB and exFAT for 128GB).

I do have some spare 64GB SDXC, but I believe it works the same way as 128GB

So now we come back to the old [OT] question (discussed thoroughly on my local Pentax board, you wouldn't believe the answers):
'Is that better to download photos from your Pentax camera with USB cable, or with external USB card reader'


-----
Never format sdxc card in non SDXC aware OS's (qnap etc) as this will result in non-readable cards and file systems that may or may not corrupt your images.

From Lexar
I've accidentally inserted my SDXC card into a PC or host device that does not support SDXC and re-formatted the card. The SDXC card no longer works with SDXC host products. What can I do to return to the SDXC format?

If you accidentally insert your SDXC card into a PC that does not support SDXC (using a direct SD slot or USB reader/writer), the following messages may appear
http://www.lexar.com/legacy_images/sdxc_faq/image008.gif

So your question on whether to use camera as card reader or external is personal choice, But what OS you use is relevant it must support SDxc or you will not be able to read the card.
06-09-2015, 08:57 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by bernhardn Quote
Image files become bigger as there are more pixels! and they are relative cheaper. and for me i want to be sure to have enough space for my holiday
Yep, and one card buggered leaves you with 128GB less space for the holiday I would really prefer 4x32GB over 1x128GB, but I don't do time-lapse so not sure how space consuming it really is.

06-11-2015, 03:37 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
Never format sdxc card in non SDXC aware OS's (qnap etc) as this will result in non-readable cards and file systems that may or may not corrupt your images.
Do you suggest that after casual formatting, and after then re-formatting the 64GB / 128GB memory card in K-3 slot the card might not be SDXC/UHS-I any more?
I guess the Lexar forum user question was regarding external devices with no internal formatting option.


QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
Yep, and one card buggered leaves you with 128GB less space for the holiday I would really prefer 4x32GB over 1x128GB, but I don't do time-lapse so not sure how space consuming it really is.
Switching cards is like switching lenses, there might be a rainstrom, you might be sitting on a camel, etc.
But I wouldn't step into 32GB SDHC -> 64GB/128GB SDXC upgrade if I was aware before of exFAT/FAT32 file format problems
06-11-2015, 08:07 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prakticant Quote
Do you suggest that after casual formatting, and after then re-formatting the 64GB / 128GB memory card in K-3 slot the card might not be SDXC/UHS-I any more?
That is a very real possibility. It is my understanding that the camera does not do a full format of the card and leaves the file system intact. What I usually suggest is to use the format utility available from the SD Association Web site. The utility has a number of options and can be used to undo any common formatting problems. Subsequent in-camera format should work just fine once the card is put in order.

https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/

I recommend the SD Association utility for formatting all SD/SDHC/SDXD cards.


Steve
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