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09-03-2015, 10:15 AM   #16
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I look at images at 92 DPI on my monitor, but the lowest DPI I print is 120. There will be no functional difference. By the time they are reduced in size that 33%, they are going to be functionally the same. On my monitor, if you like an image taken with the D7200, you're going to like the same image taken with the K-3. How meaningless is this on a scale of 1-10? I'd say 10 out of 10. When you take other features into account, smaller buffer, low frame rate etc. I wouldn't buy that camera. I'd by a K-3 for 1/3 less.

I defy anyone to come up with a scenario, where the D7200 is good enough and the K-3 isn't.

09-03-2015, 10:55 AM   #17
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Wow this thread got off on the wrong pixel!! it was how DPR does not show the potential of Pentax,even Pixel shift showed no difference, it was not bashing K3II etc.. and as many use DPR before buying a camera,this just shows how biased they are against Pentax.
But the new Sony A7RII blows everything else away!! just hope that is the sensor in the new FF coming
09-03-2015, 11:07 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
But the new Sony A7RII blows everything else away!! just hope that is the sensor in the new FF coming
It's less than a K-3 in dynamic range, and subject magnification using the same lens, 5 fps compared to the k-3s 8 and Pentax like AF speed, so I guess it really depends on what you mean by "blows everything else away".

The DR means "not really" for sunsets and sunrise and other high Dynamic Range landscape type situations, the AF and frame rate, and magnification mean "not really for sports and wildlife"... so that leaves the possibility of increased resolution, when a 24 MP K-3 is good up to 40 inches wide (1 meter) by conservative estimates. So unless you're closely examining prints bigger than a meter wide, what does that leave for it to "blow away?"

A K-3 at 6000x 4000 allows me 150 DPI, and I've sold prints that were 120 DPI, so really,how big do you have to print before the A7rII is the best choice?
09-03-2015, 11:13 AM   #19
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Stop pixel peeping, you will drive yourself crazy. Get out there and shoot some images. I don't know which is better, but I have a shiny new K-3 II and love the results.

Lee



09-03-2015, 11:28 AM   #20
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I see no difference

QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Hmm. Like the K-3 somehow scoring 2% points lower than the D7100.

K-3


D7100
I own both the Nikon D7100 and the K3. I've shot thousands of photos using each body. I am extremely happy with each camera, and see virtually no difference in IQ between them (and I'm a pixel peeper and print images really large too)!
09-03-2015, 01:54 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's less than a K-3 in dynamic range, and subject magnification using the same lens, 5 fps compared to the k-3s 8 and Pentax like AF speed, so I guess it really depends on what you mean by "blows everything else away".

The DR means "not really" for sunsets and sunrise and other high Dynamic Range landscape type situations, the AF and frame rate, and magnification mean "not really for sports and wildlife"... so that leaves the possibility of increased resolution, when a 24 MP K-3 is good up to 40 inches wide (1 meter) by conservative estimates. So unless you're closely examining prints bigger than a meter wide, what does that leave for it to "blow away?"

A K-3 at 6000x 4000 allows me 150 DPI, and I've sold prints that were 120 DPI, so really,how big do you have to print before the A7rII is the best choice?
I mean that if this is the new Pentax FF sensor,then it will blow things away & if Pentax can get 7-8 FPS out of it & maybe tweak DR?? yes K3/ II is good for alot,but FF will give higher ISO..over ISO 1600 on the K3II is basically useless for what I need with birds..
09-03-2015, 02:20 PM   #22
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I'm with those who say don't read too much into minor differences related to sample comparisons or review details.

You especially get the hint when a BODY review has a CON like this:

Many lenses don't appear to live up to camera's full autofocus potential

Obviously, the point is that Pentax has greatly improved AF, so the PRO is:

AF capability is much improved (although some current lenses are incapable of taking full advantage)

We've seen instances when especially good bodies get negatives listed for not having a full array of lenses offered (not just Pentax). Often these review sites are heavily reliant on revenue from Canon or Nikon, either directly or otherwise (such as due to the sales volume at Amazon).
09-03-2015, 02:26 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Quote
We've seen instances when especially good bodies get negatives listed for not having a full array of lenses offered (not just Pentax). Often these review sites are heavily reliant on revenue from Canon or Nikon, either directly or otherwise (such as due to the sales volume at Amazon).
Since Amazon owns DPReview it is all about driving sales.

09-03-2015, 02:38 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Since Amazon owns DPReview it is all about driving sales.
I was leaving that little detail to the imagination, but I am sure spelling it out is the informative thing to do for those who didn't know.
09-06-2015, 07:34 PM   #25
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I disagree with disregarding the results. That zoomed in embroidery shot shows softness in the Pentax example. Today I was shooting something at a considerable distance with a long lens, and the subject is cropped substantially in the end result. That difference is between a keeper or a throwaway.

And yes, conditions, noise, vibration and technique can have a greater effect than the difference between the two sensors. But all else being equal it makes a difference. It means I need to be 20% closer to get the same shot quality.

My friend shoots with the D7200 and is getting stunning results, much nicer than the D7100. It really depends how close to the edge of capability that you are shooting.

Pentax will come out with something better in the near future. Either the full frame or the next iteration of the apsc which I suspect will be in the spring.

And yes I was out shooting. I would have had far more exposures if the clouds hasn't rolled in between me and the subject.
09-07-2015, 02:43 AM   #26
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D7200 and K-3 have nearly same sensors as far as resolution is concerned. The three things that can be different between the two are: lens sharpness, processing, and AF. I guess AF without micro-adjust migth make the difference during a test. My experience with K-3 and DA*300 is that AF is not always spot on, so IMO, Pentax gear require more attention, skills to produce the same results as Nikon equ. gear. Recently I did some wildlife shooting but had only a few keepers. Keepers were essentially the shots I did with manual expose and still subjects I could redo the focus. So, IMO Pentax also provide high image quality but require more attention to get it. What puzzles me is that I get better exposure with f16 sunny rule + guesstimated correction, than the K-3 camera AE can do.
09-07-2015, 02:50 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I disagree with disregarding the results. That zoomed in embroidery shot shows softness in the Pentax example. Today I was shooting something at a considerable distance with a long lens, and the subject is cropped substantially in the end result. That difference is between a keeper or a throwaway.

And yes, conditions, noise, vibration and technique can have a greater effect than the difference between the two sensors. But all else being equal it makes a difference. It means I need to be 20% closer to get the same shot quality.

My friend shoots with the D7200 and is getting stunning results, much nicer than the D7100. It really depends how close to the edge of capability that you are shooting.

Pentax will come out with something better in the near future. Either the full frame or the next iteration of the apsc which I suspect will be in the spring.

And yes I was out shooting. I would have had far more exposures if the clouds hasn't rolled in between me and the subject.
I don't know.

Based on DXO Mark (not perfect, but still pretty decent) the D7200 is the same as the K3 II with regard to SNR. Resolution should be the same as well. The only difference is in dynamic range, where the D7200 is quite a bit better throughout the iso range. If you are seeing that much difference, then I would tend to blame the lens or the auto focus system, as the sensors really shouldn't be that much different.
09-07-2015, 04:59 AM   #28
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I'm not certain what is causing the difference. It could be sloppy test procedures. I don't know. That isn't my point. My point is that softness like that is important and does affect results.

I regularly run into graininess at low Iso and well lit conditions with the K3. Iso 200 properly exposed in good light should be as smooth as butter, but sometimes it isn't. Why? Not sure, probably somewhere in the bowels of the image collection pipeline. It is easily fixed with noise reduction, but noise reduction by definition introduces softness.

That detail is important. When I got the K3, upgrade from the K5 I started to see details such as the serration on the bill of some birds that wasn't apparent previously. Same lenses. But some people didn't like the K3 results compared to the K5iis, they saw a decrease in image quality. I don't think the shadows can be pushed quite as hard on the K3 vs the K5. The technology of dense sensors has improved, as well as the image data pipeline hardware/software. I want that improvement. A stop of effective image quality means that I can get satisfactory shots on more days of the year.

The perversity of this endeavor makes improved capabilities into a space that we didn't even bother entering previously, but once there we want more.
09-07-2015, 05:21 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I disagree with disregarding the results. That zoomed in embroidery shot shows softness in the Pentax example.
Once again, if they didn't use the same lens specimen for both, it's meaningless.
You can't put a kit lens on a white K-50 and 40 Ltd on a red one then declare that red K-50s have better IQ than white ones.
Try some vanilla ice cream on a cow pie and chocolate ice cream on an apple pie. Does that prove that chocolate ice cream makes for better pie A la Mode?
More than one signficant variable = useless results.
09-07-2015, 06:19 AM   #30
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I totally agree. Both cameras should've used the same brand of lens. Then we will be able to say that it's a comparative test. Otherwise using a better lens on one and having an inferior lens on the other is a bias test.
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