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09-30-2015, 07:44 AM   #1
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Profile K3 in lightroom

Hi,
I searched in the forum but don't find a satisfy answer so I open this thread. The question is simple (the answer might be not) :
Is there any Lightroom profile (or preset) that makes the Raw file look like the output Jpeg (straight from the camera) ?
I tried vary the sliders without success
Many thanksssss !!!

09-30-2015, 08:49 AM - 2 Likes   #2
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No, there is nothing built in that will do that. Now, want to hear the sad part? There may not be a way to fully replicate the in-camera processing in LR for some images. Below are two photos. The first is my best effort with the RAW image. The second is the in-camera JPEG from a similar RAW taken a few minutes later, but with a different crop.

From Lightroom:




In-camera JPEG (cropped) from a companion to the above RAW:




And just for giggles, a scanned Kodachrome slide taken during the same session:




Try as I might, I was not able to make the top look like the middle in LR 3.x. I might have better luck with a current version of LR, but who knows. It appears there are subtleties in the RAW conversion algorithms that set hard limits on what you can do with a particular tool.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 09-30-2015 at 09:04 AM.
09-30-2015, 08:59 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
No, there is nothing built in that will do that. Now, wantt to hear the sad part? There may not be a way to replicate the in-camera processing in LR. Below are two photos. The first is my best effort with the RAW image. The second is the in-camera JPEG from a similar RAW taken a few minutes later, but with a different crop.

From Lightroom:




In-camera JPEG (cropped) from a companion to the above RAW:




And just for giggles, a scanned Kodachrome slide taken during the same session:




Try as I might, I was not able to make the top look like the middle in LR 3.x. I might have better luck with a current version of LR, but who knows. It appears there are subtleties in the RAW conversion algorithms that set hard limits on what you can do with a particular tool.


Steve
Was the middle shot created as a JPG in camera at the time of the shot or was it developed in camera from a RAW file?

Astonishing how much the Kodachrome and the JPG look more similar than the RAW file from LR.
09-30-2015, 09:05 AM - 1 Like   #4
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I've used these occasionally, although I'm not sure it makes things any different than editing the image.

Huelight Profiles:
Huelight Pentax Camera Profiles

There's this too:
X Pentax K-3 Camera Profile For Lightroom & Camera RAW (Updated) — Ken Tam|Photographer|Corporate Photographer|Fashion Photographer|China|Hong Kong|Macau

09-30-2015, 09:07 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
No, there is nothing built in that will do that. Now, want to hear the sad part? There may not be a way to fully replicate the in-camera processing in LR for some images. Below are two photos. The first is my best effort with the RAW image. The second is the in-camera JPEG from a similar RAW taken a few minutes later, but with a different crop.

From Lightroom:




In-camera JPEG (cropped) from a companion to the above RAW:




And just for giggles, a scanned Kodachrome slide taken during the same session:




Try as I might, I was not able to make the top look like the middle in LR 3.x. I might have better luck with a current version of LR, but who knows. It appears there are subtleties in the RAW conversion algorithms that set hard limits on what you can do with a particular tool.


Steve
I don't use LR much, but I do have a similar problem with Darktable. Someday I hope to put some time into making a better profile for it to better match the in camera JPG by default without much fiddling around. Any chance of getting the RAW for that image? I'd like to see what Darktable does with it.
And Kodachrome? How long ago was that? I love Kodachrome, but I thought you could neither buy or have have it processed any more.

John.
09-30-2015, 09:28 AM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by redcat Quote
Is there any Lightroom profile (or preset) that makes the Raw file look like the output Jpeg (straight from the camera) ?
No, because the thing you load in lightroom is raw data, it is undeveloped information. Jpeg on the other hand is a finished photo, developed according to some presets. There is no need to shoot raw if all you want is the result you get from the in-camera jpeg. The second problem is that there isn't just one "jpeg" that the camera makes. There are many options: The jpeg mode (vibrant, bright, muted, film reversal, portrait..), digital filters (toy camera, etc.), lens corrections (diffraction, distortion, CA, vignetting), shadow protection and highlight protection, HDR, Noise Reduction, White balance, and so on. So even if you want to develop your raw to look like a jpeg, we don't even know which jpeg process you mean. Not to mention that these modes can be further edited by the user (Press Info, then navigate to Jpeg mode, choose one, and press Info again)

That said, I think the software that you get with the Pentax camera (a version of Silky Pix) has the same presets as the camera, so you can get very similar results, with a little more flexibility to add adjustments yourself.
If you want a different colour profile for Lightroom, try finding some online. I got one for some other Pentax cameras from RawStudio. Now I can choose a slightly different colour interpretation in the Camera Calibration/Camera profile tab. But its still not the same as jpeg. Its just.. different. Blues get darker, reds shift a little bit.. but it still needs more work with the other sliders to look like a finished photo.
You can also try to make your own. I think there is software and instructions out there. Though, I doubt a camera profile will do what you seem to want it to do. That's not its job

Edit: Also, I think there are other threads with similar questions, where you can find some profiles. Like this one (page 2): https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/267020-k-3-colours-acr-vs-dcu5.html
09-30-2015, 09:56 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
No, there is nothing built in that will do that. Now, want to hear the sad part? There may not be a way to fully replicate the in-camera processing in LR for some images. Below are two photos. The first is my best effort with the RAW image. The second is the in-camera JPEG from a similar RAW taken a few minutes later, but with a different crop.

From Lightroom:




In-camera JPEG (cropped) from a companion to the above RAW:




And just for giggles, a scanned Kodachrome slide taken during the same session:




Try as I might, I was not able to make the top look like the middle in LR 3.x. I might have better luck with a current version of LR, but who knows. It appears there are subtleties in the RAW conversion algorithms that set hard limits on what you can do with a particular tool.


Steve
+30-35 saturation and maybe shift the tint a bit towards magenta and the first pic matches the second.
09-30-2015, 12:13 PM   #8
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Or you can be more subtle, and adjust the hue, saturation and luminance of individual colors (HSL). It takes a while but I'm always able to arrive at a very similar color range and depth to whichever in camera jpg preset I've used at the time. Awesome shot btw

09-30-2015, 03:25 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by jhmos Quote
Any chance of getting the RAW for that image? I'd like to see what
Darktable does with it.
Send me a PM and I will send you a link.

QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Like this one (page 2): K-3 Colours in ACR vs DCU5
Thanks for providing the link. I vaguely remember that thread and IIRC, it should be helpful.

QuoteOriginally posted by jhmos Quote
And Kodachrome? How long ago was that? I love Kodachrome, but I thought you could neither buy or have have it processed any more.
The photo was taken the same time as the digital shots, so October 2009. The film was from the last production run of Kodachrome that was made available after the official product end-of-life. I felt privileged to have scored five of those last rolls.


Steve
09-30-2015, 08:40 PM   #10
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if i want the in camera look... i download into iPhoto and then export as a tiff. Maybe 1 out a 300 i'll do that with.
10-01-2015, 12:50 AM   #11
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It's a pity but neither of digital photos looks as good as the Kodachrome image. There are much more tonal variations there.

However, Pentax jpegs are really much more beautiful than imported raws in Lightroom. My usual workflow with K-3 was:
Opening raws in PDCU > light corrections there > exporting jpegs or tiffs > opening those jpegs and tiffs in Lightroom > greater corrections in Lightroom (or additional step of importing to Photoshop).

To me it was the best workflow of getting the best colors. PDCU's colors are the same as Penax jpeg's.
10-01-2015, 01:26 AM   #12
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Thanks a lot guys, I'll try some Kodak preset in LR and check the Huelight/X Pentax profile too ^^ I'll give Silky Pix a try also but I prefer LR because it interact well with PS
I'll give a feedback for each solution and share the settings if I find one ^^
10-01-2015, 04:31 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by redcat Quote
Thanks a lot guys, I'll try some Kodak preset in LR and check the Huelight/X Pentax profile too ^^ I'll give Silky Pix a try also but I prefer LR because it interact well with PS
I'll give a feedback for each solution and share the settings if I find one ^^
I use the huelight profiles....make other relevant adjustments in lightroom (made a couple of basic presets) then I use the DXO filmpak plug in... and try 7 or 8 favourite film emulations to get the right look to finish off.

10-02-2015, 04:33 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
No, because the thing you load in lightroom is raw data, it is undeveloped information. Jpeg on the other hand is a finished photo, developed according to some presets. There is no need to shoot raw if all you want is the result you get from the in-camera jpeg. The second problem is that there isn't just one "jpeg" that the camera makes. There are many options: The jpeg mode (vibrant, bright, muted, film reversal, portrait..), digital filters (toy camera, etc.), lens corrections (diffraction, distortion, CA, vignetting), shadow protection and highlight protection, HDR, Noise Reduction, White balance, and so on. So even if you want to develop your raw to look like a jpeg, we don't even know which jpeg process you mean. Not to mention that these modes can be further edited by the user (Press Info, then navigate to Jpeg mode, choose one, and press Info again)

That said, I think the software that you get with the Pentax camera (a version of Silky Pix) has the same presets as the camera, so you can get very similar results, with a little more flexibility to add adjustments yourself.
If you want a different colour profile for Lightroom, try finding some online. I got one for some other Pentax cameras from RawStudio. Now I can choose a slightly different colour interpretation in the Camera Calibration/Camera profile tab. But its still not the same as jpeg. Its just.. different. Blues get darker, reds shift a little bit.. but it still needs more work with the other sliders to look like a finished photo.
You can also try to make your own. I think there is software and instructions out there. Though, I doubt a camera profile will do what you seem to want it to do. That's not its job

Edit: Also, I think there are other threads with similar questions, where you can find some profiles. Like this one (page 2): https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/267020-k-3-colours-acr-vs-dcu5.html
Well yes actually. It is really RAW development, the RAW file itself is pretty useless till its converted to something we can actually see and that something has to based on some sort of profile to get displayed in a reasonable fashion. What we want is a profile with parameters that give a starting point similar to the out of camera JPG (which is usually pretty good) from which we can change as desired or required.

John.
10-02-2015, 04:42 AM   #15
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For raw conversion in LR, use the Embedded profile, never Adobe Standard. For nature shots, I always add the Punch preset. I prefer the results from these settings over DCU5, and LR is so much easier to navigate.
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