Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-04-2015, 02:43 PM   #31
Pentaxian
Tjompen1968's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,331
So, now when I have had the opportunity to see som dngs with and without the pixelshift I find that there some artifacts if there is something that have moved during the exposure. For instance grass and flowers.

Is there a way to easily fix this in post? The things that does not move are very sharp indeed. Love this feature.

Would love to have a K-3 II to play arround with...

10-04-2015, 04:12 PM   #32
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eastern Oregon
Posts: 615
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The jpeg converted image is 6000x4000, with pixel shift or without pixel shift. But the RAW file (before conversion) contains the information of 4 raw shots of 6000x4000 pixels.
After raw to jpeg conversion, the image is a 24Mpixels image, with eventually slightly more quality (eventually better sharpness and less noise).


Not sure what the JPEGs are looking like but a PEF pixel shift file runs around 130-140MB and a Tiff from Ricoh's digital utility comes in about the same. The Tiff's look a lot like Nikon D810 files except with less noise and better color. They might be a hair sharper too. Just like Imaging-Resource reported. The difference between a 16 bit Tiff converted from a single image PEF and 16 bit tiff from a pixel shift PEF is DRASTIC to say the least.

---------- Post added 10-04-15 at 05:14 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
So, now when I have had the opportunity to see som dngs with and without the pixelshift I find that there some artifacts if there is something that have moved during the exposure. For instance grass and flowers.

Is there a way to easily fix this in post? The things that does not move are very sharp indeed. Love this feature.

Would love to have a K-3 II to play arround with...


You could always extract a single frame conversion out of your Pixel Shift file and then layer that and paint in the moving areas which would not be moving in the single frame image. Best of all worlds.

---------- Post added 10-04-15 at 05:15 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I'd be interested to see a 100% crop comparison between pixel shift and non pixel shift images taken with zoom lenses and apertures such at f16.
F5.6 or 8 would be a better choice, diffraction at F16 might start making things blurry all around.
10-04-2015, 05:37 PM   #33
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pasadena, CA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,118
QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote

You could always extract a single frame conversion out of your Pixel Shift file and then layer that and paint in the moving areas which would not be moving in the single frame image. Best of all worlds.[COLOR="Silver"]
Actually, it should be possible to overlay it automatically in matlab by calculating the MSD between the images and setting a proper threshold. How does one extract a layer from those multi-exposure files?
This should be a simple script, but perhaps the proper thresholding (decision what is moving, what isn't) could make it cumbersome to use. I can't think why any other reason why wouldn't pentax implement that feature.
It would also be improved with local masking, I bet photoshop will have this feature eventually.
10-04-2015, 08:16 PM   #34
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Fenwoodian's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,303
You could always extract a single frame conversion out of your Pixel Shift file and then layer that and paint in the moving areas which would not be moving in the single frame image. Best of all worlds.[COLOR="Silver"]


How do you do that??

Last week I tried for over an hour to do this with some of my K3 Pixel Shift files. For the life of me I could not figure out how to do it. Have you actually done this? Care to share how it's done???

10-04-2015, 09:06 PM   #35
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eastern Oregon
Posts: 615
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
You could always extract a single frame conversion out of your Pixel Shift file and then layer that and paint in the moving areas which would not be moving in the single frame image. Best of all worlds.[COLOR="Silver"]


How do you do that??

Last week I tried for over an hour to do this with some of my K3 Pixel Shift files. For the life of me I could not figure out how to do it. Have you actually done this? Care to share how it's done???


According to Imaging-resource: "In fact, you can even process a Pixel Shifted raw file in camera, disabling Pixel Shifting after the fact and bake yourself a fresh single-shot JPEG that's identical to what you'd have gotten in single-shot mode."


So I guess that's one way you can do it. There's a bit of a mention of this idea towards the bottom of the K3II filed test review part 1 on that site.
10-04-2015, 09:16 PM   #36
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Fenwoodian's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,303
QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
According to Imaging-resource: "In fact, you can even process a Pixel Shifted raw file in camera, disabling Pixel Shifting after the fact and bake yourself a fresh single-shot JPEG that's identical to what you'd have gotten in single-shot mode."


So I guess that's one way you can do it. There's a bit of a mention of this idea towards the bottom of the K3II filed test review part 1 on that site.

Are you advocating layering a small JPG file on top of a HUGE Pixel shifted file (probably a TIFF), and then masking out the stuff that's blurry on the Pixel shifted file?

I don't know about you, but I don't believe that this is a very good idea. Does not each layer need to be the same size and file format as the other layers are?

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 10-04-2015 at 09:22 PM.
10-04-2015, 09:41 PM   #37
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eastern Oregon
Posts: 615
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
Are you advocating layering a small JPG file on top of a HUGE Pixel shifted file (probably a TIFF), and then masking out the stuff that's blurry on the Pixel shifted file?

I don't know about you, but I don't believe that this is a very good idea. Does not each layer need to be the same size and file format as the other layers are?


It's still early days, I have not had a situation arise where I need to do this yet, nor do I have any images to even experiment with.


But I can tell you, you can layer anything you want. A JPEG and a Tiff made from the same raw file would probably layer just fine. You may/probably have to convert the tiff to 8 bit. I probably would only fill in a small portion of my image with the jpeg output, like a small bit of weird artifacts in splashing water or something and I'd paint that in after a lot of my big manipulations were made first. Though I tend to just boost saturation a little bit increase contrast with a small curve and sharpen a bit for almost everything I shoot so I'm not a big manipulator to begin with.


As an aside, ironically the printer I'm using to make my 40x60 prints wants 8 bit jpegs and the prints look awesome. Go figure.
10-04-2015, 11:05 PM - 1 Like   #38
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,674
QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
It's still early days, I have not had a situation arise where I need to do this yet, nor do I have any images to even experiment with. But I can tell you, you can layer anything you want. A JPEG and a Tiff made from the same raw file would probably layer just fine. You may/probably have to convert the tiff to 8 bit. I probably would only fill in a small portion of my image with the jpeg output, like a small bit of weird artifacts in splashing water or something and I'd paint that in after a lot of my big manipulations were made first. Though I tend to just boost saturation a little bit increase contrast with a small curve and sharpen a bit for almost everything I shoot so I'm not a big manipulator to begin with. As an aside, ironically the printer I'm using to make my 40x60 prints wants 8 bit jpegs and the prints look awesome. Go figure.
16bits, 14bits, 8bits, have nothing to do with spacial resolution. 8bits jpeg means that the luminance of each RGB pixel is quantified with 8 bits i.e binary values from 0 to 255. JPEG standard was defined based on human eye perception, where 8 bits of depth was estimated to be good enough. The 14bits of RAW coding (or 16bits for TIFF) is to provide more than 8 bits dynamic range during raw to jpeg conversion. So, when using pixel shift in raw (14 bits), the amount of data is huge, but due to data redundancy (coding several time the same information), the actual amount of information is not proportional to the size of the file. You can have a 45Mbytes file which, once printed, does not look better than a 6Mbytes JPEG.

10-05-2015, 04:27 AM   #39
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,932
QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
As an aside, ironically the printer I'm using to make my 40x60 prints wants 8 bit jpegs and the prints look awesome. Go figure.
I guess there's only so much it can do with a limited palette of inks, and 8-bit works okay within those physical limitations?
10-05-2015, 05:00 PM   #40
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,663
QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote


Shot today with K3II and Tamron 17-50 2.8. I shot this a few weeks ago with a Canon 6D and 24-70 F4.0 L IS. I printed them both 12x18 and the k3II shot is miles ahead. I ordered a 16x48 and it's going to be interesting to compare that to the 6D one I got a few weeks ago.


Interesting to note what really struck me was the ease of shooting pixel shift/mirror up/IR remote. The Canon would give me fits using the IR remote and it didn't work with mirror lock up or some such nonsense. I know I was always scratching my head wondering what settings worked with what other settings. The Pentax just does what I want it to do without giving me any lip.


The AA filter on the 6D is very noticeable after shooting Pentax non AA cameras for the past few years. And pixel shift just leaves it in the dust FF or not.


Makes me wonder what the FF Pentax might be like WITH pixel shift... things are getting interesting.


Another thing about pixel shift, your lens only has to be 24mp sharp, not 50mp sharp, yet it gives you 45mp output. think about it.
Cool! It looks like the tree farm in Boardman is starting to color up. Time to make a pilgrimage east I think!


Steve

(...everyone around here shoots those trees at one time or the other...it is only 171 miles each way for me...)

Last edited by stevebrot; 10-05-2015 at 05:09 PM.
10-07-2015, 05:28 PM   #41
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eastern Oregon
Posts: 615
Original Poster
Got another 16x48 back form the lab. No doubt about it, the Pentax K3II pixel shift shot is MUCH better than the FF Canon 6D shot. It's in the D810/5Dsr/A7IIr category of sharpy goodness.


Made a short video about it...
10-07-2015, 05:37 PM   #42
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,932
If the full frame delivers in proportion, it should leave just about everything else in the dust, shouldn't it?
10-07-2015, 05:50 PM   #43
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eastern Oregon
Posts: 615
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
If the full frame delivers in proportion, it should leave just about everything else in the dust, shouldn't it?

Yea I was thinking about that. If the FF PS bumps the resolution and smoothness like the APS-c version does, it's going to be Medium format or better - EPIC!


Pixel shift turns an APS-C into about double the MP's next format up... 24mp's APS-c becomes Full Frame 48 MP's. I'm really pleased with the output, and that's the first time in a long time.


Image Quality for the buck, size and weight, just can't be beat.
10-07-2015, 11:21 PM   #44
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,674
QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
Yea I was thinking about that. If the FF PS bumps the resolution and smoothness like the APS-c version does, it's going to be Medium format or better - EPIC!
By the physics, pixel shift should work better on FF than APSC. Not sure if Ricoh will also implement pixel shift on their first full frame camera. Perhaps they would reserve that feature to a FF mark II.
10-08-2015, 03:07 AM   #45
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,404
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
By the physics, pixel shift should work better on FF than APSC. Not sure if Ricoh will also implement pixel shift on their first full frame camera. Perhaps they would reserve that feature to a FF mark II.
If they have SR on the sensor (they are supposed to) and they can do astro tracer and pixel shift with it, then they should implement it. Full frame cameras do not get quick refreshes and I wouldn't expect a follow up flagship full frame for a minimum of two, maybe three years after this camera's release. Feels foolish not to put it in as a feature that can let them stand out from the other full frames out there now.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
breeze, camera, canon, day, dslr, ff, forecast, k-3, k3, k3ii, landscape, love, pentax, pentax k-3, pixel, pixel shift, reason, sensor, shift, shot, shots, tamron, time, tripod, weeks, wind
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K3II: Pixel Shift First Test DDoram Pentax K-3 168 11-24-2015 10:15 AM
K3II Pixel Shift ISO 6400 DDoram Pentax K-3 9 08-08-2015 09:49 PM
Pixel shift for landscapes seachongo Pentax DSLR Discussion 12 06-25-2015 03:25 PM
Pixel shift practical applications Spodeworld Pentax K-3 20 04-25-2015 10:01 AM
Pixel shift and bracketing Spodeworld Pentax K-3 9 04-23-2015 08:56 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:37 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top