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10-08-2015, 03:38 AM   #46
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Pixel shift is a software control thing, isn't it? So if they didn't want to delay the release any further because of implementation difficulties, they could release it without and then put out a MAJOR firmware update once the bugs were ironed out, while still offering it as standard on later releases. Nobody would lose.

10-08-2015, 03:48 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Pixel shift is a software control thing, isn't it? So if they didn't want to delay the release any further because of implementation difficulties, they could release it without and then put out a MAJOR firmware update once the bugs were ironed out, while still offering it as standard on later releases. Nobody would lose.
No, it is hardware and software controlled. Thanks to larger pixel size, I doubt pixel shift implementation is an issue on FF.
10-08-2015, 03:54 AM   #48
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The hardware has to be there, yes, but the hardware is useless without the software. What I was saying is that if the software implementation is problematic, they can still put it out with SR, tracking or whatever, and then put the PS implementation in later.
10-08-2015, 05:02 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote


Shot today with K3II and Tamron 17-50 2.8. I shot this a few weeks ago with a Canon 6D and 24-70 F4.0 L IS. I printed them both 12x18 and the k3II shot is miles ahead. I ordered a 16x48 and it's going to be interesting to compare that to the 6D one I got a few weeks ago.


Interesting to note what really struck me was the ease of shooting pixel shift/mirror up/IR remote. The Canon would give me fits using the IR remote and it didn't work with mirror lock up or some such nonsense. I know I was always scratching my head wondering what settings worked with what other settings. The Pentax just does what I want it to do without giving me any lip.


The AA filter on the 6D is very noticeable after shooting Pentax non AA cameras for the past few years. And pixel shift just leaves it in the dust FF or not.


Makes me wonder what the FF Pentax might be like WITH pixel shift... things are getting interesting.


Another thing about pixel shift, your lens only has to be 24mp sharp, not 50mp sharp, yet it gives you 45mp output. think about it.
Hi Edward,
when I saw your photos on pbase my first thought was: uh, which in german means: uh
Absolutely great pictures, congrats! I'd love to see some more taken with the K-3ii and pixel shift resolution. Maybe there should be a thread in int K-3 subforum for this. Damn, don't know if I should wait/save for FF or buy K-3ii now ...

10-08-2015, 12:07 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by rullrich Quote
Damn, don't know if I should wait/save for FF or buy K-3ii now
Wait and save. If the experience of others is that FF is a disappointment, you will still have the money and can spend it on the K-3ii and some nice accessories (including external hard drives to help you store the huge files the pixel-shift generates).
10-08-2015, 10:26 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by rullrich Quote
Hi Edward,
when I saw your photos on pbase my first thought was: uh, which in german means: uh
Absolutely great pictures, congrats! I'd love to see some more taken with the K-3ii and pixel shift resolution. Maybe there should be a thread in int K-3 subforum for this. Damn, don't know if I should wait/save for FF or buy K-3ii now ...


Having shot both and for the purpose of making commercially sellable 40x60 inch prints, I'm shooting a K3II and will be shooting Pixel Shift any time I can which should be 90% of what I'm shooting. BUT, mainly that's because the K3II can get the job done, it's smaller, lighter and cheaper, and there is no FF with the AWESOME Pentax interface which I prefer over all others.


IF the Pentax FF is just right, and I can get a decent wide angle THAT ACCEPTS SCREW ON FILTERS, (the Tamron 15-30 in a Pentax rebranding would be wonderful but it doesn't take filter easily) then I may add one. If not, I'm satisfied where I'm at.


A DFA limited 20mm DC WR would do it with a K3II with a FF sensor. I'd buy that TODAY.
10-08-2015, 11:41 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Wait and save. If the experience of others is that FF is a disappointment, you will still have the money and can spend it on the K-3ii and some nice accessories (including external hard drives to help you store the huge files the pixel-shift generates).
Okay, hard drives prices are not the problem nowadays, it's more the way you organize your hard drive "farm" :-) By the way: how do you handle shots taken with pixel shift resolution? Will the K-3ii create one jpg out of the 4 pictures (I think it does), and are these 4 pictures downloadable to your computer afterwards? If so, is there software that can handle these (I mean "blend" them the way the k-3ii does)?

---------- Post added 10-08-15 at 11:43 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
Having shot both and for the purpose of making commercially sellable 40x60 inch prints, I'm shooting a K3II and will be shooting Pixel Shift any time I can which should be 90% of what I'm shooting. BUT, mainly that's because the K3II can get the job done, it's smaller, lighter and cheaper, and there is no FF with the AWESOME Pentax interface which I prefer over all others.


IF the Pentax FF is just right, and I can get a decent wide angle THAT ACCEPTS SCREW ON FILTERS, (the Tamron 15-30 in a Pentax rebranding would be wonderful but it doesn't take filter easily) then I may add one. If not, I'm satisfied where I'm at.


A DFA limited 20mm DC WR would do it with a K3II with a FF sensor. I'd buy that TODAY.
That's nice to hear from someone shooting both systems, thank you.
10-09-2015, 06:29 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by rullrich Quote
Will the K-3ii create one jpg out of the 4 pictures (I think it does), and are these 4 pictures downloadable to your computer afterwards? If so, is there software that can handle these (I mean "blend" them the way the k-3ii does)?
The K-3 II does process the pixel shift images into a JPG if set to save JPG.
The 4 images are stored in the RAW (DNG or PEF) file, which can be downloaded to your computer.
The Pentax Digital Camera Utility 5 software supplied with the camera can post process the DNG or PEF files.
There is a patch for the dcraw software, (search for dcrawps, a binary available for Windows but will need to be built for Linux or OS X) which can be used to process the RAW file and save as a 16 bit TIFF, which then makes it usable in most post processing software.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Terry

10-09-2015, 09:05 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by rullrich Quote



That's nice to hear from someone shooting both systems, thank you.


After the 16x48 print test I sold off the Canon. The K3II Pixel Shift TROUNCED IT!


Edward
10-09-2015, 10:55 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by tduell Quote
The K-3 II does process the pixel shift images into a JPG if set to save JPG.
The 4 images are stored in the RAW (DNG or PEF) file, which can be downloaded to your computer.
The Pentax Digital Camera Utility 5 software supplied with the camera can post process the DNG or PEF files.
There is a patch for the dcraw software, (search for dcrawps, a binary available for Windows but will need to be built for Linux or OS X) which can be used to process the RAW file and save as a 16 bit TIFF, which then makes it usable in most post processing software.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Terry
Thanks, Terry. So I guess it won't take that long to be build into darktable (I'm on Linux).
Ralf

---------- Post added 10-09-15 at 11:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
After the 16x48 print test I sold off the Canon. The K3II Pixel Shift TROUNCED IT!


Edward
I really need to rethink my camera buys, I think. I'm an amateur with a K-5 doing mainly landscape and family shots. From film days I still have some A-series and M lenses I really like. I'm currently saving for the 12-14mm DA and I really wonder if the K-3II would not please all my needs (so there wouldn't be a need for an FF). But I didn't want to hijack that thread, just thinking loud about what you said/did.

Ralf
10-10-2015, 01:43 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by rullrich Quote
Thanks, Terry. So I guess it won't take that long to be build into darktable (I'm on Linux).
I'm not sure if that will happen, I think there was some talk on the DT mailing list (or somewhere) that pixel-shift conversion was seen as non-mainstream case.
I am also on Linux, and use darktable. If I shoot RAW I simply run a script to use dcrawps to convert all the RAW files to 16 bit TIFF, then use darktable as usual.
Building dcrawps is pretty simple, and worth the very small effort to get it and build.

Cheers,
Terry
10-10-2015, 09:26 PM - 1 Like   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by rullrich Quote

I really need to rethink my camera buys, I think. I'm an amateur with a K-5 doing mainly landscape and family shots. From film days I still have some A-series and M lenses I really like. I'm currently saving for the 12-14mm DA and I really wonder if the K-3II would not please all my needs (so there wouldn't be a need for an FF). But I didn't want to hijack that thread, just thinking loud about what you said/did.

Ralf


I just picked up the 12-24 myself. I really like the lens, nice build and handling. I would have liked HD, DC and WR, but whatever... Preliminary tests say it's a good copy, but I have not really shot it out in the field yet.


The only REAL reasons to justify FF is legacy lens focal lengths, extreme depth of field applications, and single shot high MP needs. Those are each pretty specific scenarios and if you need/want that then you know you need/want it. If you don't KNOW you need it, you don't need it. You might still want it, but that's between you and your wallet...
10-25-2015, 01:23 AM - 2 Likes   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
I just picked up the 12-24 myself. I really like the lens, nice build and handling. I would have liked HD, DC and WR, but whatever... Preliminary tests say it's a good copy, but I have not really shot it out in the field yet.


The only REAL reasons to justify FF is legacy lens focal lengths, extreme depth of field applications, and single shot high MP needs. Those are each pretty specific scenarios and if you need/want that then you know you need/want it. If you don't KNOW you need it, you don't need it. You might still want it, but that's between you and your wallet...
I'am not for FF, but there a bit more... You can shoot at f/4 in FF what need f/2.8 on APSC... And shoot at f/2.8 what would need f/2 on APSC. Lenses tend to perform much better at f/4 than f/2.8 and that true too for f/2.8 vs f/2. It is easy to find f/2.8 zooms... Not so much for f/2 zooms.

Also people are after the in focus - out of focus transitions. The larger the format, the longer the focal length you use for the same framing, the smoother the transition look meaning even without looking for less deph of field, an MF tend to give more pleasing results at least for some people and some kind fo shoots. In the MF case, the lenses are not the same, they are made for another format and provide better results.

For many wedding photographers, FF is an interresting compromize and more and more look forward to MF digital.

I agree that for a landscape without wind the situation is different. You can use pixel shift or you can buy an automated pano head, a great tele and get gigapixels out of any camera (FF or not, pixel shift or not), the actual MP and sensor size is not that critical. It also help save the issue of loosing pixel due to different aspect ratio. By definition your picture example once cropped is not 24MP, it is 18MP while a 5 pano shoot would be more arround 70MP.

To me the actual shoot cost you 3 days of work + diesel + the car usage... That's 2000$ worth of money if you expect to make a nice living out of it, so if you think added resolution help you should really think if you could get even better with a pano head, some are fully automated and would allow you to get 100MP+ pictures quite easily in conditions similar to the pixel shift requirement. I would also be very interrested by the Pentax FF that will likely have pixel shift too and comes in 42MP as you could combine the 2 techniques or get 42MP shoots when pixel shift conditions are not meet.
10-25-2015, 12:45 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by tduell Quote
I'm not sure if that will happen, I think there was some talk on the DT mailing list (or somewhere) that pixel-shift conversion was seen as non-mainstream case.
I am also on Linux, and use darktable. If I shoot RAW I simply run a script to use dcrawps to convert all the RAW files to 16 bit TIFF, then use darktable as usual.
Building dcrawps is pretty simple, and worth the very small effort to get it and build.

Cheers,
Terry
Yes, I remember the main author stating that it is a too much of a corner case to be built into darktable. Perhaps if ps becomes ubiquitous among camera manufacturers he will change his mind. What I like about dcrawps is that you can tune the detection of pixel motion by command arguments and it will smooth out any detected pixel aberrations before compositing the final image.
10-31-2015, 09:41 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
Nonsense
Hahaha.
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