K3 with Speedlight

designinme_1976 · 10-29-2015, 12:00 PM

Im curious if Pentax fixed the flash issue that was a problem on the K5? When I owned the K5, I couldn't reliably use the Pentax flash ( bounce or straight ) without a great degree of exposure problems. Is this problem resolved with the K3?

enoeske · 10-29-2015, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by designinme_1976

Im curious if Pentax fixed the flash issue that was a problem on the K5? When I owned the K5, I couldn't reliably use the Pentax flash ( bounce or straight ) without a great degree of exposure problems. Is this problem resolved with the K3?

My experience with the K-3 is that using an external flash is very consistent and gives great results. There is a new problem with the K-3; there is a slight but noticeable delay between pressing the shutter button and when the exposure is taken when using P-TTL. This does not occur with previous cameras, nor does it occur when in manual flash modes. It is limited to P-TTL use. This is really only an issue if you shoot action.

stevebrot · 10-29-2015, 02:17 PM

I am not familiar with the K-5 issues, but my K-3 P-TTL works well as long as it is paired with an autofocus lens. Performance with "A" series glass (no data pin for focus distance estimate) is spotty and not as good as what I enjoyed with my K10D. ~~You might want to take a look at the newly-released, updated flash guide published by this site.~~ Edit: not pertinent

Steve

Paul the Sunman · 10-29-2015, 04:15 PM

Yes, P-TTL is much more reliable on the K3 than the K5, particularly off-camera. However, there is a price. With P-TTL (on or off camera), there is a lag of about 0.3 sec between pushing the shutter release button and the shot actually being taken. This may or may not be of concern to you. There is no lag with the flash in manual mode.

slip · 10-29-2015, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

Yes, P-TTL is much more reliable on the K3 than the K5, particularly off-camera. However, there is a price. With P-TTL (on or off camera), there is a lag of about 0.3 sec between pushing the shutter release button and the shot actually being taken. This may or may not be of concern to you. There is no lag with the flash in manual mode.

That shutter lag is good to know. .3 second is a country mile if you are shooting wedding dancing in poorly lit rooms!

Randy

stevebrot · 10-29-2015, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by slip

That shutter lag is good to know. .3 second is a country mile if you are shooting wedding dancing in poorly lit rooms!

Randy

The lag occurs with the on-board flash as well as from the hot shoe, so you can test it out on your K-3. I sort of understand the concern with the lag, but if immediacy is very important, P-TTL is not the right technology for the job, lag ro no lag.

Steve

calsan · 10-29-2015, 08:54 PM

I had a few occasions with random massively overexposed images using the AF360 (take the shot again same settings, no problem) with the K-7. One photo was pretty regrettable as I couldn't get it again.
K-3, zero flash exposure problems, even with bounce flash or stofen.

LeRolls · 10-29-2015, 09:39 PM

I have had no real issues using a flash with the K-3 but I almost never use P-TTL and mostly shoot manual.

redcat · 10-30-2015, 02:35 AM

I had no issue with the K3, I use the Metz 52 AF-1 (with PTTL), no lag at all !

Paul the Sunman · 10-30-2015, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by redcat

I had no issue with the K3, I use the Metz 52 AF-1 (with PTTL), no lag at all !

There is a 16-page thread about this problem. It is very real. I too use the Metz 52 AF-1 with my K3.

**Larrymc** · 10-30-2015, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

There is a 16-page thread about this problem. It is very real. I too use the Metz 52 AF-1 with my K3.

Yes there certainly was a thread several months back. My K-3 has no lag between shutter button press (I use back button focus) and flash firing with either my Sigma EF 610 DG Super or the built in flash using the P-TTL system. I just rechecked it this mornng after reading this thread.....nope still no lag. In that 16 page thread I can't remember seeing any post that offered instrumented proof of an actual lag on all K-3s and without instrumentation I don't see how in the heck anyone can quantify a certain amount of time lag for flash firing like 2 or 3 tenths of a second. Suffice it to say that not all K-3s have a lag problem with their P-TTL flash system.

Paul the Sunman · 10-30-2015, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Larrymc

Yes there certainly was a thread several months back. My K-3 has no lag between shutter button press (I use back button focus) and flash firing with either my Sigma EF 610 DG Super or the built in flash using the P-TTL system. I just rechecked it this mornng after reading this thread.....nope still no lag. In that 16 page thread I can't remember seeing any post that offered instrumented proof of an actual lag on all K-3s and without instrumentation I don't see how in the heck anyone can quantify a certain amount of time lag for flash firing like 2 or 3 tenths of a second. Suffice it to say that not all K-3s have a lag problem with their P-TTL flash system.

See the post from Frank the Matt on page 14. I have also posted images of myself in a mirror where I raised my index finger to vertical off the shutter release by the time the shot is taken. I can easily do this with P-TTL, but not when the flash is in manual. The delay happens both with the built-in flash and with my Metz 52.

Of course I can't prove that this afflicts "all K-3s", as I don't have access to all K-3s. It affects mine and those of many others. At least one poster to the thread says he returned his K3 because of this problem and tried another one in the shop, but it was the same.

**Larrymc** · 10-30-2015, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

See the post from Frank the Matt on page 14. I have also posted images of myself in a mirror where I raised my index finger to vertical off the shutter release by the time the shot is taken. I can easily do this with P-TTL, but not when the flash is in manual. The delay happens both with the built-in flash and with my Metz 52.

Of course I can't prove that this afflicts "all K-3s", as I don't have access to all K-3s. It affects mine and those of many others. At least one poster to the thread says he returned his K3 because of this problem and tried another one in the shop, but it was the same.

It seem that some examples of the K-3 do exhibit lag. DPReview has an old thread about it and somewhere around half reported a lag. Here on Pentax Forums I think you will find the same thing.....some units do and some don't. I may just be fortunate with my K-3 as I have never had an ounce of problems with any of the K-3 problems I've seen posted on various forums.

stevebrot · 10-30-2015, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Larrymc

It seem that some examples of the K-3 do exhibit lag.

Most of the accounts on the other thread are essentially anecdotal. That being said, the study with a coupled oscilloscope clearly showed the lag between shutter actuation and pre-flash. The lag is real, is 0.018s and essentially doubles the P-TTL latency for the lens/flash combo used for the test. Whether this creates significant risk for missed shots depends a lot on the photographer and choice of subjects and skill with timing.

Oscilloscope Evidence of K-3 P-TTL Flash Delay

Again, the solution is to use a manual flash or auto-thyristor setup, the former having the advantage of fine control over flash illumination.

Steve

10-29-2015, 12:00 PM	#1
designinme_1976 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dayton Ohio Posts: 132	K3 with Speedlight Im curious if Pentax fixed the flash issue that was a problem on the K5? When I owned the K5, I couldn't reliably use the Pentax flash ( bounce or straight ) without a great degree of exposure problems. Is this problem resolved with the K3?

10-29-2015, 02:17 PM	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I am not familiar with the K-5 issues, but my K-3 P-TTL works well as long as it is paired with an autofocus lens. Performance with "A" series glass (no data pin for focus distance estimate) is spotty and not as good as what I enjoyed with my K10D. ~~You might want to take a look at the newly-released, updated flash guide published by this site.~~ Edit: not pertinent Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 10-29-2015 at 03:13 PM.

10-30-2015, 03:47 PM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Larrymc It seem that some examples of the K-3 do exhibit lag. Most of the accounts on the other thread are essentially anecdotal. That being said, the study with a coupled oscilloscope clearly showed the lag between shutter actuation and pre-flash. The lag is real, is 0.018s and essentially doubles the P-TTL latency for the lens/flash combo used for the test. Whether this creates significant risk for missed shots depends a lot on the photographer and choice of subjects and skill with timing. Oscilloscope Evidence of K-3 P-TTL Flash Delay Again, the solution is to use a manual flash or auto-thyristor setup, the former having the advantage of fine control over flash illumination. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 10-30-2015 at 03:52 PM.

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10-29-2015, 12:28 PM	#2
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by designinme_1976 Im curious if Pentax fixed the flash issue that was a problem on the K5? When I owned the K5, I couldn't reliably use the Pentax flash ( bounce or straight ) without a great degree of exposure problems. Is this problem resolved with the K3? My experience with the K-3 is that using an external flash is very consistent and gives great results. There is a new problem with the K-3; there is a slight but noticeable delay between pressing the shutter button and when the exposure is taken when using P-TTL. This does not occur with previous cameras, nor does it occur when in manual flash modes. It is limited to P-TTL use. This is really only an issue if you shoot action.

10-29-2015, 04:15 PM	#4
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	Yes, P-TTL is much more reliable on the K3 than the K5, particularly off-camera. However, there is a price. With P-TTL (on or off camera), there is a lag of about 0.3 sec between pushing the shutter release button and the shot actually being taken. This may or may not be of concern to you. There is no lag with the flash in manual mode.

10-29-2015, 04:58 PM	#5
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman Yes, P-TTL is much more reliable on the K3 than the K5, particularly off-camera. However, there is a price. With P-TTL (on or off camera), there is a lag of about 0.3 sec between pushing the shutter release button and the shot actually being taken. This may or may not be of concern to you. There is no lag with the flash in manual mode. That shutter lag is good to know. .3 second is a country mile if you are shooting wedding dancing in poorly lit rooms! Randy

10-29-2015, 06:56 PM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by slip That shutter lag is good to know. .3 second is a country mile if you are shooting wedding dancing in poorly lit rooms! Randy The lag occurs with the on-board flash as well as from the hot shoe, so you can test it out on your K-3. I sort of understand the concern with the lag, but if immediacy is very important, P-TTL is not the right technology for the job, lag ro no lag. Steve

10-29-2015, 08:54 PM	#7
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,549	I had a few occasions with random massively overexposed images using the AF360 (take the shot again same settings, no problem) with the K-7. One photo was pretty regrettable as I couldn't get it again. K-3, zero flash exposure problems, even with bounce flash or stofen.

10-29-2015, 09:39 PM	#8
LeRolls Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: PSL, FL Posts: 4,504	I have had no real issues using a flash with the K-3 but I almost never use P-TTL and mostly shoot manual.

10-30-2015, 02:35 AM	#9
redcat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Paris Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,939	I had no issue with the K3, I use the Metz 52 AF-1 (with PTTL), no lag at all !

10-30-2015, 04:38 AM	#10
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	Originally posted by redcat I had no issue with the K3, I use the Metz 52 AF-1 (with PTTL), no lag at all ! There is a 16-page thread about this problem. It is very real. I too use the Metz 52 AF-1 with my K3.

10-30-2015, 05:49 AM	#11
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,252	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman There is a 16-page thread about this problem. It is very real. I too use the Metz 52 AF-1 with my K3. Yes there certainly was a thread several months back. My K-3 has no lag between shutter button press (I use back button focus) and flash firing with either my Sigma EF 610 DG Super or the built in flash using the P-TTL system. I just rechecked it this mornng after reading this thread.....nope still no lag. In that 16 page thread I can't remember seeing any post that offered instrumented proof of an actual lag on all K-3s and without instrumentation I don't see how in the heck anyone can quantify a certain amount of time lag for flash firing like 2 or 3 tenths of a second. Suffice it to say that not all K-3s have a lag problem with their P-TTL flash system.

10-30-2015, 06:10 AM	#12
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	Originally posted by Larrymc Yes there certainly was a thread several months back. My K-3 has no lag between shutter button press (I use back button focus) and flash firing with either my Sigma EF 610 DG Super or the built in flash using the P-TTL system. I just rechecked it this mornng after reading this thread.....nope still no lag. In that 16 page thread I can't remember seeing any post that offered instrumented proof of an actual lag on all K-3s and without instrumentation I don't see how in the heck anyone can quantify a certain amount of time lag for flash firing like 2 or 3 tenths of a second. Suffice it to say that not all K-3s have a lag problem with their P-TTL flash system. See the post from Frank the Matt on page 14. I have also posted images of myself in a mirror where I raised my index finger to vertical off the shutter release by the time the shot is taken. I can easily do this with P-TTL, but not when the flash is in manual. The delay happens both with the built-in flash and with my Metz 52. Of course I can't prove that this afflicts "all K-3s", as I don't have access to all K-3s. It affects mine and those of many others. At least one poster to the thread says he returned his K3 because of this problem and tried another one in the shop, but it was the same.

10-30-2015, 06:51 AM	#13
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,252	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman See the post from Frank the Matt on page 14. I have also posted images of myself in a mirror where I raised my index finger to vertical off the shutter release by the time the shot is taken. I can easily do this with P-TTL, but not when the flash is in manual. The delay happens both with the built-in flash and with my Metz 52. Of course I can't prove that this afflicts "all K-3s", as I don't have access to all K-3s. It affects mine and those of many others. At least one poster to the thread says he returned his K3 because of this problem and tried another one in the shop, but it was the same. It seem that some examples of the K-3 do exhibit lag. DPReview has an old thread about it and somewhere around half reported a lag. Here on Pentax Forums I think you will find the same thing.....some units do and some don't. I may just be fortunate with my K-3 as I have never had an ounce of problems with any of the K-3 problems I've seen posted on various forums.